4 ms·

There Are No Programmers in Star Trek

18 points by birdculture 1y ago

elmerfud 1y ago
This is clearly not true. You don't see people with dedicated programming professions. What you do see is engineers that have different job focuses. You have engineers dedicated to mechanical systems you have engineers dedicated to the computer systems and you do see engineers that are highly focused on specializations within those fields. If you wouldn't call the designer of the EMH program a programmer what would you call him? Even in the current society a programmer is not some dedicated person to just program things. They have to be able to branch out and understand the systems their program is going to interface with. It is no different in Star Trek. It seems programming is more common across all jobs but there absolutely those who specialize in it.
delichon 1y ago
It just wasn't siloed by a priesthood. Everyone was programming. Spock was running simulations and logical analyses. Scotty was optimizing ship functions. Kirk was composing AI logic bombs. Sulu was generating navigational computations. Uhuru was doing signal analysis. This is people communicating their intentions in detail to computers, also known as programming.
- znpy 1y ago
  I think you nailed the point with this reply.
- Bender 1y ago
  Adding to this they also provided programming feedback loops to the Federation that would lead to improvements in existing star-ships and substantial improvements in newer models. This was absolutely required to fight the Borg. Shields and phasers had to be reprogrammed to make continuous and random changes in modulation. This evolution of hardware and software evident in each generation of Star Trek. There were also incidents that lead to a greater understanding of technology that could also be considered programming such as Reginald Barclay reprogramming via the holodeck the existing tech on the Enterprise to fold space and travel to the center of the galaxy. There were many other similar incidents.
corvad 1y ago
I would argue that the people programming things that are used on starships are not in the field. The people in the field are the specialist who need to be there to monitor and explore. Most of the engineering work of design and development happens on research stations and other places that may not be reflected in Star Trek specifically. It would illogical to send a programmer so far away for work that can be done from anywhere. And that is retaining the concept of programming that is argued by society right now as being in risk. Not to mention that programming is not always by definition writing software at a keyboard.
- 3eb7988a1663 1y ago
  Solid take. Do modern day battleships have programmers re-writing core OS components? Hopefully in a few hundred years, we have a lot of the basics locked down so you only need people who are good in working with expertly crafted tools in the field. There were also call-outs to the facility where the Doctor was created. Sounded like a dedicated research installation which must be full of programmers.
  - general1465 1y ago
    > Solid take. Do modern day battleships have programmers re-writing core OS components? They do and they don't. For example F16 pilots in Ukraine were unable to fly combat missions because USA stopped help during March 2025. Jamming pods are making Russian radars less effective and they were not getting software updates from USA. So programmers are not on the frontline, but they are still absolutely vital part of such an old plane like F16 is. Now consider F35 which is very reliant on the software.
alganet 1y ago
That is just not true. Holoprogramming is a recurring theme in TNG and VOY. There's even a recurring character that is supposed to represent this role of specialized programmer, Reginald Barclay, among other one-ofs (such as Dr. Zimmerman). > Picard says "Tea, earl grey, hot" and the computer instructs the replicator to create such a beverage. He doesn't even think about someone coding up a "tea" app - the computer is intelligent enough to know what he needs and controls the device to deliver. You are clearly not versed in the ways of Star Trek. This notion is directly confronted in the classical scene of Lt. Paris asking the replicator for tomato soup in VOY, and getting super annoyed by the way it is programmed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD4EVXkfe0w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD4EVXkfe0w
- gitprolinux 1y ago
  I might add that in space dock, retrofitting the computer, at another time for example, the AI of the starship Discovery needed a reboot done by Micheal Burnham.
- wrboyce 1y ago
  I’m pretty sure there’s at least one instance of an alien race offering to program a local delicacy into the replicators too, also in VOY I think. Doesn’t Neelix create some replicator programs as well? I want to say for Kes.
  - alganet 1y ago
    I'm pretty sure Neelix is not familiar with replicators. It seems no one in the delta quadrant is. This is evidenced by both Neelix's and the Kazon surprise when the Voyager crew is able to replicate water. There is a catch in the first episode, which clearly shows replicator technology being employed by the sporocistians (it's how they beam down food to the Ocampa).
    - wrboyce 1y ago
      Hmm fair point, maybe the alien delicacy is in TNG. I was more certain about my Neelix memory though, and I managed to find Neelix 1: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Neelix_1 https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Neelix_1
hyperhello 1y ago
Confusing reality and fiction is something Spock would never do.
lordkrandel 1y ago
Sorry, isn't the very start of the first film about Kirk hacking the simulation?
- tauchunfall 1y ago
  Kobayashi Maru training is from Star Trek II (1982).
  - chasing0entropy 1y ago
    Yes but the hack would have been Kirk accessing the computer and telling it to disregard the previous parameters and guarantee him success at the mission... Actually your comment supports the article.
    - lordkrandel 1y ago
      That's still programming.
  - lordkrandel 1y ago
    My bad
falcor84 1y ago
> In Azimov's stories the positronic brains didn't need programmers, nor did they need computer scientists. In this world the techies were some sort of AI psychiatrists. Dr Susan Calvin is termed a robo-psychologist and she talks to the AI entities to try and solve their problems and make them do what we want them to do - sounds familiar, prompt engineering anyone? I think it's a bit unfair to say this about Asimov, seeing how most of these stories were written in the 1940s and 1950s, before the idea of a "programmer" really came into being. But nevertheless, having done a quick dive into the texts, I found a few snippets where Asimov did describe the work of a programmer, with the best example possibly being the following from "Escape!" (published in 1945): > The robopsychologist continued: “Here is what we’re going to do. We have divided all of Consolidated’s information into logical units. We are going to feed the units to The Brain singly and cautiously. When the factor enters — the one that creates the dilemma — The Brain’s child personality will hesitate. Its sense of judgment is not mature. There will be a perceptible interval before it will recognize a dilemma as such. And in that interval, it will reject the unit automatically — before its brainpaths can be set in motion and ruined.” > Robertson’s Adam’s apple squirmed, “Are you sure, now?” > Dr. Calvin masked impatience, “It doesn’t make much sense, I admit, in lay language; but there is no conceivable use in presenting the mathematics of this. I assure you, it is as I say.”
x______________ 1y ago
Doesn't anyone else recall the holodeck where.. programs.. had to be made and loaded up for the simulation to work? Isn't that programming?
tauchunfall 1y ago
"They are talked at as if they were friendly co-workers and, and this is the really important point, the talking is not programming." The technical manual of TNG [1] states, "Most panels are also configured to accept vocal input, although keyboard input is preferred in most situations for greater operating speed and reduced chance of input error by voice discriminator algorithms." (page 33). Even in the original Star Trek they quite often use the panels. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation_Technical_Manual https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation...
tauchunfall 1y ago
This remembers me of Chris Granger's post "Coding is not the new literacy" [1]. Instead he argues "Modeling is the new literacy" and "In order to represent a system, we have to understand what it is exactly, but our understanding is mired in assumptions.". Modelling is still required in Star Trek. The computer can make many assumptions, but the user still has to adjust wrong assumptions using voice commands or panel commands, as shown in many episodes. [1] https://chris-granger.com/2015/01/26/coding-is-not-the-new-literacy/ https://chris-granger.com/2015/01/26/coding-is-not-the-new-l...
nuc1e0n 1y ago
In science fiction robots are commonplace. How where they built? That's never explained, because sci-fi isn't real.
red-iron-pine 1y ago
aren't there multiple times where crewmen say things like "i spent 2 hours fixing subroutines"?

18 points by birdculture 1y ago

This is clearly not true. You don't see people with dedicated programming professions. What you do see is engineers that have different job focuses. You have engineers dedicated to mechanical systems you have engineers dedicated to the computer systems and you do see engineers that are highly focused on specializations within those fields. If you wouldn't call the designer of the EMH program a programmer what would you call him? Even in the current society a programmer is not some dedicated person to just program things. They have to be able to branch out and understand the systems their program is going to interface with. It is no different in Star Trek. It seems programming is more common across all jobs but there absolutely those who specialize in it.

delichon 1y ago

It just wasn't siloed by a priesthood. Everyone was programming. Spock was running simulations and logical analyses. Scotty was optimizing ship functions. Kirk was composing AI logic bombs. Sulu was generating navigational computations. Uhuru was doing signal analysis. This is people communicating their intentions in detail to computers, also known as programming.

znpy 1y ago
I think you nailed the point with this reply.
Bender 1y ago
Adding to this they also provided programming feedback loops to the Federation that would lead to improvements in existing star-ships and substantial improvements in newer models. This was absolutely required to fight the Borg. Shields and phasers had to be reprogrammed to make continuous and random changes in modulation. This evolution of hardware and software evident in each generation of Star Trek. There were also incidents that lead to a greater understanding of technology that could also be considered programming such as Reginald Barclay reprogramming via the holodeck the existing tech on the Enterprise to fold space and travel to the center of the galaxy. There were many other similar incidents.

corvad 1y ago

I would argue that the people programming things that are used on starships are not in the field. The people in the field are the specialist who need to be there to monitor and explore. Most of the engineering work of design and development happens on research stations and other places that may not be reflected in Star Trek specifically. It would illogical to send a programmer so far away for work that can be done from anywhere. And that is retaining the concept of programming that is argued by society right now as being in risk. Not to mention that programming is not always by definition writing software at a keyboard.

3eb7988a1663 1y ago
Solid take. Do modern day battleships have programmers re-writing core OS components? Hopefully in a few hundred years, we have a lot of the basics locked down so you only need people who are good in working with expertly crafted tools in the field. There were also call-outs to the facility where the Doctor was created. Sounded like a dedicated research installation which must be full of programmers.
- general1465 1y ago
  > Solid take. Do modern day battleships have programmers re-writing core OS components? They do and they don't. For example F16 pilots in Ukraine were unable to fly combat missions because USA stopped help during March 2025. Jamming pods are making Russian radars less effective and they were not getting software updates from USA. So programmers are not on the frontline, but they are still absolutely vital part of such an old plane like F16 is. Now consider F35 which is very reliant on the software.

alganet 1y ago

That is just not true. Holoprogramming is a recurring theme in TNG and VOY. There's even a recurring character that is supposed to represent this role of specialized programmer, Reginald Barclay, among other one-ofs (such as Dr. Zimmerman). > Picard says "Tea, earl grey, hot" and the computer instructs the replicator to create such a beverage. He doesn't even think about someone coding up a "tea" app - the computer is intelligent enough to know what he needs and controls the device to deliver. You are clearly not versed in the ways of Star Trek. This notion is directly confronted in the classical scene of Lt. Paris asking the replicator for tomato soup in VOY, and getting super annoyed by the way it is programmed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD4EVXkfe0w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD4EVXkfe0w

gitprolinux 1y ago
I might add that in space dock, retrofitting the computer, at another time for example, the AI of the starship Discovery needed a reboot done by Micheal Burnham.
wrboyce 1y ago
I’m pretty sure there’s at least one instance of an alien race offering to program a local delicacy into the replicators too, also in VOY I think. Doesn’t Neelix create some replicator programs as well? I want to say for Kes.
- alganet 1y ago
  I'm pretty sure Neelix is not familiar with replicators. It seems no one in the delta quadrant is. This is evidenced by both Neelix's and the Kazon surprise when the Voyager crew is able to replicate water. There is a catch in the first episode, which clearly shows replicator technology being employed by the sporocistians (it's how they beam down food to the Ocampa).
  - wrboyce 1y ago
    Hmm fair point, maybe the alien delicacy is in TNG. I was more certain about my Neelix memory though, and I managed to find Neelix 1: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Neelix_1 https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Neelix_1

hyperhello 1y ago

Confusing reality and fiction is something Spock would never do.

lordkrandel 1y ago

Sorry, isn't the very start of the first film about Kirk hacking the simulation?

tauchunfall 1y ago
Kobayashi Maru training is from Star Trek II (1982).
- chasing0entropy 1y ago
  Yes but the hack would have been Kirk accessing the computer and telling it to disregard the previous parameters and guarantee him success at the mission... Actually your comment supports the article.
  - lordkrandel 1y ago
    That's still programming.
- lordkrandel 1y ago
  My bad

falcor84 1y ago

> In Azimov's stories the positronic brains didn't need programmers, nor did they need computer scientists. In this world the techies were some sort of AI psychiatrists. Dr Susan Calvin is termed a robo-psychologist and she talks to the AI entities to try and solve their problems and make them do what we want them to do - sounds familiar, prompt engineering anyone? I think it's a bit unfair to say this about Asimov, seeing how most of these stories were written in the 1940s and 1950s, before the idea of a "programmer" really came into being. But nevertheless, having done a quick dive into the texts, I found a few snippets where Asimov did describe the work of a programmer, with the best example possibly being the following from "Escape!" (published in 1945): > The robopsychologist continued: “Here is what we’re going to do. We have divided all of Consolidated’s information into logical units. We are going to feed the units to The Brain singly and cautiously. When the factor enters — the one that creates the dilemma — The Brain’s child personality will hesitate. Its sense of judgment is not mature. There will be a perceptible interval before it will recognize a dilemma as such. And in that interval, it will reject the unit automatically — before its brainpaths can be set in motion and ruined.” > Robertson’s Adam’s apple squirmed, “Are you sure, now?” > Dr. Calvin masked impatience, “It doesn’t make much sense, I admit, in lay language; but there is no conceivable use in presenting the mathematics of this. I assure you, it is as I say.”

x______________ 1y ago

Doesn't anyone else recall the holodeck where.. programs.. had to be made and loaded up for the simulation to work? Isn't that programming?

tauchunfall 1y ago

"They are talked at as if they were friendly co-workers and, and this is the really important point, the talking is not programming." The technical manual of TNG [1] states, "Most panels are also configured to accept vocal input, although keyboard input is preferred in most situations for greater operating speed and reduced chance of input error by voice discriminator algorithms." (page 33). Even in the original Star Trek they quite often use the panels. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation_Technical_Manual https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation...

tauchunfall 1y ago

This remembers me of Chris Granger's post "Coding is not the new literacy" [1]. Instead he argues "Modeling is the new literacy" and "In order to represent a system, we have to understand what it is exactly, but our understanding is mired in assumptions.". Modelling is still required in Star Trek. The computer can make many assumptions, but the user still has to adjust wrong assumptions using voice commands or panel commands, as shown in many episodes. [1] https://chris-granger.com/2015/01/26/coding-is-not-the-new-literacy/ https://chris-granger.com/2015/01/26/coding-is-not-the-new-l...

nuc1e0n 1y ago

In science fiction robots are commonplace. How where they built? That's never explained, because sci-fi isn't real.

red-iron-pine 1y ago

aren't there multiple times where crewmen say things like "i spent 2 hours fixing subroutines"?