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You're starting out with an assumption, that this is an OTA update for the infotainment system, and then conclude this incident shouldn't be possible. The probl

You're starting out with an assumption, that this is an OTA update for the infotainment system, and then conclude this incident shouldn't be possible. The problem is the assumption. This is a OTA vehicle update. It has the ability to update the infotainment, ECU, ECM, TCM, and BCM. Multiple manufacturers have been able to release recalls that fix major vehicle defects (safety, reliability, and performance). That wouldn't be possible without OTA updates that update core vehicle computer systems. Unclear where this idea that OTA = Infotainment came from. I'd go as far as to say that most manufacturers can do this in 2025.

SirFatty 1y ago
"I'd go as far as to say that most manufacturers can do this in 2025." What does that have to do with OP's comment? And their point is still valid, and OTA update should not be able to brick a vehicle, regardless of the system receiving the update. And regardless if "they all can do it".
- Someone1234 1y ago
  It has everything to do with it. If OTA updates can update core vehicle computer systems, in ways that can correct safety, performance, and reliability problems then they can also brick that vehicle. The manufacturer has the ability to push an update that reprograms computers that control how physical components behave in a vehicle. By the very nature of that; they can push good or evil updates.
  - bloomingeek 1y ago
    Which is a reason the market for "dumb" cars is tightening up. Both my cars are "smart" and sometimes I wonder if I really own them. It bothers me that the maker can cause an update without my permission. (Yes, I know that's the world we've been living in for a while now.)
- aardvarkr 1y ago
  Any update can brick your device if done poorly. This device just happens to be a car. You misunderstood what OP was saying. They claimed that an update to the infotainment system shouldn’t be able to brick the other systems in the car. The response points out the car’s OTA update subroutine has access to update every critical system in the car by design. It’s flawed logic to assume that OTA updates only affect the infotainment system.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
nilamo 1y ago
...because the very first paragraph of the article says it was an infotainment update? Thanks for the info, tho.
goda90 1y ago
> Unclear where this idea that OTA = Infotainment came from. Because to some people, the idea of an OTA update being allowed to change mission critical parts of a machine automatically without a solid rollback system is absurd, and the best way to do that is to never do OTA updates of mission critical parts at all.
- sleepybrett 1y ago
  ... but then you'd have to pay mechanics at dealerships to do it. Middleman cutting.
- general1465 1y ago
  Rollback is getting extinct for security reasons. When you will screw up, you need to do a new release. Hopefully screwed part is still talking.
  - ndriscoll 1y ago
    This is why OTA updates should simply be illegal/considered negligent engineering. If you want a convenient update, let people plug their phones or computers in via a USB port or something, or take it to a mechanic to do so. There shouldn't be security concerns with an appliance because it shouldn't be writable outside of an owner-intended maintenance mode, which should be impossible to activate wirelessly.
    - general1465 1y ago
      Wait until when fridge or TV will come with its own 5G chip and they will get bricked by remote update because it is time to buy a new one and there will be nothing you can do about it.
      - mopenstein 1y ago
        They don't have to do this. The cheap materials in the compressor or cheap capacitors used on the power supply board will just silently fall. And the cost to repair the problem, for the average person, will be slightly less than just buying a newer version of the crap that just broke.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
photochemsyn 1y ago
Why didn't the vehicle manufacturers robustly test their software systems on their vehicle's hardware before releasing the product to the public?
- duskdozer 1y ago
  That would have an upfront guaranteed money/time cost, whereas avoiding that would at most result in some easily suppressible lawsuits or fines
rjsw 1y ago
The infotainment system can be the gateway to the rest of the vehicle network. It makes sense to attach a 4G modem to the display head to do mapping, hands free calling or emergency response, you may as well use it to download ECU updates too.
cameldrv 1y ago
This should be made illegal. It’s a massive national security threat. Imagine on the eve of a war, instead of Jeep 4xes, it’s every recent Ford or Toyota or GM car, and instead of a software update that can be rolled back, it wipes the flash completely, or reprograms the ECU to damage the engine or disable the brakes on the highway or something else to cause accidents.
- mopenstein 1y ago
  You assume that it will be a foreign enemy and not your own government bricking your car on the eve of revolution.
- coldpie 1y ago
  Just wait until you hear how much of our country's critical infrastructure is hooked up to the Internet. Traffic lights, water treatment plants, power plants.
tetraodonpuffer 1y ago
most cars these days have GPS and return location and so on, why can't manufacturer run these updates only at night and when the car is parked at home? There should be no reason for any OTA update to happen while the vehicle is running (or on a trip etc.), downloading the OTA update, sure, but definitely not applying it. Also there should be a documented procedure to restore the previous in case an OTA update fails.
thayne 1y ago
The first paragraph of OP said > The automaker pushed out a telematics update for the Uconnect infotainment system that evidently wasn't ready
teeray 1y ago
> Multiple manufacturers have been able to release recalls that fix major vehicle defects (safety, reliability, and performance). That wouldn't be possible without OTA updates that update core vehicle computer systems. Just like dosage can be the difference between medicine and poison, OTA updates that can fix major safety, reliability, and performance problems can also cause them. The power is too great, and simply shouldn’t be allowed.
rovr138 1y ago
> This is a OTA vehicle update. It has the ability to update the infotainment, ECU, ECM, TCM, and BCM. Multiple manufacturers have been able to release recalls that fix major vehicle defects (safety, reliability, and performance). *That wouldn't be possible without OTA updates that update core vehicle computer systems.* Why wouldn't it be possible without OTA? It would just require someone to go somewhere, or do something, to get this installed. While their assumption is incorrect, your conclusion is incorrect.

SirFatty 1y ago

"I'd go as far as to say that most manufacturers can do this in 2025." What does that have to do with OP's comment? And their point is still valid, and OTA update should not be able to brick a vehicle, regardless of the system receiving the update. And regardless if "they all can do it".

Someone1234 1y ago
It has everything to do with it. If OTA updates can update core vehicle computer systems, in ways that can correct safety, performance, and reliability problems then they can also brick that vehicle. The manufacturer has the ability to push an update that reprograms computers that control how physical components behave in a vehicle. By the very nature of that; they can push good or evil updates.
- bloomingeek 1y ago
  Which is a reason the market for "dumb" cars is tightening up. Both my cars are "smart" and sometimes I wonder if I really own them. It bothers me that the maker can cause an update without my permission. (Yes, I know that's the world we've been living in for a while now.)
aardvarkr 1y ago
Any update can brick your device if done poorly. This device just happens to be a car. You misunderstood what OP was saying. They claimed that an update to the infotainment system shouldn’t be able to brick the other systems in the car. The response points out the car’s OTA update subroutine has access to update every critical system in the car by design. It’s flawed logic to assume that OTA updates only affect the infotainment system.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]

nilamo 1y ago

...because the very first paragraph of the article says it was an infotainment update? Thanks for the info, tho.

goda90 1y ago

> Unclear where this idea that OTA = Infotainment came from. Because to some people, the idea of an OTA update being allowed to change mission critical parts of a machine automatically without a solid rollback system is absurd, and the best way to do that is to never do OTA updates of mission critical parts at all.

sleepybrett 1y ago
... but then you'd have to pay mechanics at dealerships to do it. Middleman cutting.
general1465 1y ago
Rollback is getting extinct for security reasons. When you will screw up, you need to do a new release. Hopefully screwed part is still talking.
- ndriscoll 1y ago
  This is why OTA updates should simply be illegal/considered negligent engineering. If you want a convenient update, let people plug their phones or computers in via a USB port or something, or take it to a mechanic to do so. There shouldn't be security concerns with an appliance because it shouldn't be writable outside of an owner-intended maintenance mode, which should be impossible to activate wirelessly.
  - general1465 1y ago
    Wait until when fridge or TV will come with its own 5G chip and they will get bricked by remote update because it is time to buy a new one and there will be nothing you can do about it.
    - mopenstein 1y ago
      They don't have to do this. The cheap materials in the compressor or cheap capacitors used on the power supply board will just silently fall. And the cost to repair the problem, for the average person, will be slightly less than just buying a newer version of the crap that just broke.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

photochemsyn 1y ago

Why didn't the vehicle manufacturers robustly test their software systems on their vehicle's hardware before releasing the product to the public?

duskdozer 1y ago
That would have an upfront guaranteed money/time cost, whereas avoiding that would at most result in some easily suppressible lawsuits or fines

rjsw 1y ago

The infotainment system can be the gateway to the rest of the vehicle network. It makes sense to attach a 4G modem to the display head to do mapping, hands free calling or emergency response, you may as well use it to download ECU updates too.

cameldrv 1y ago

This should be made illegal. It’s a massive national security threat. Imagine on the eve of a war, instead of Jeep 4xes, it’s every recent Ford or Toyota or GM car, and instead of a software update that can be rolled back, it wipes the flash completely, or reprograms the ECU to damage the engine or disable the brakes on the highway or something else to cause accidents.

mopenstein 1y ago
You assume that it will be a foreign enemy and not your own government bricking your car on the eve of revolution.
coldpie 1y ago
Just wait until you hear how much of our country's critical infrastructure is hooked up to the Internet. Traffic lights, water treatment plants, power plants.

tetraodonpuffer 1y ago

most cars these days have GPS and return location and so on, why can't manufacturer run these updates only at night and when the car is parked at home? There should be no reason for any OTA update to happen while the vehicle is running (or on a trip etc.), downloading the OTA update, sure, but definitely not applying it. Also there should be a documented procedure to restore the previous in case an OTA update fails.

thayne 1y ago

The first paragraph of OP said > The automaker pushed out a telematics update for the Uconnect infotainment system that evidently wasn't ready

teeray 1y ago

> Multiple manufacturers have been able to release recalls that fix major vehicle defects (safety, reliability, and performance). That wouldn't be possible without OTA updates that update core vehicle computer systems. Just like dosage can be the difference between medicine and poison, OTA updates that can fix major safety, reliability, and performance problems can also cause them. The power is too great, and simply shouldn’t be allowed.

rovr138 1y ago

> This is a OTA vehicle update. It has the ability to update the infotainment, ECU, ECM, TCM, and BCM. Multiple manufacturers have been able to release recalls that fix major vehicle defects (safety, reliability, and performance). *That wouldn't be possible without OTA updates that update core vehicle computer systems.* Why wouldn't it be possible without OTA? It would just require someone to go somewhere, or do something, to get this installed. While their assumption is incorrect, your conclusion is incorrect.