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> What if he tried that, but every day just got worse than the last day? Anyone can say that about their life right now, can't they? How many people struggling

by Noaidi 1y ago

> What if he tried that, but every day just got worse than the last day? Anyone can say that about their life right now, can't they? How many people struggling today think that their life will get no better? Look at all those who made it through slavery, what hope did they have? Their hope came from their faith. Suffering has a purpose, this is something your grandmother understands through her faith. Buddhists understand this as well. Maybe the problem is not our suffering, but our lack of faith in others and in in something bigger than ourselves.

lukan 1y ago
Well, but what if I ain't a christian nor a buddhist and don't think suffering as a normal living condition is necessary? (Can you proof it is? Also I don't think all christians/buddhists share that believe) So sure, suffering and pain are part of life. And accepting that helps a lot to not get stuck in that condition by avoiding painful things, you cannot avoid. "Anyone can say that about their life right now, can't they?" So no, not anyone is saying that. Only those with a death wish. And I don't consider having a death wish as a mental condition. It can of course result of a illness, but it can also be a consciouss wish and then finally a decision. And if other people decide they may not do this, but have to remain in their state of living hell, then this is just torture to me.
- hrimfaxi 1y ago
  > Well, but what if I ain't a christian nor a buddhist and don't think suffering as a normal living condition is necessary? (Can you proof it is? Also I don't think all christians/buddhists share that believe) At the very least, suffering (through childbirth) is a prerequisite to bringing life into this world. edit: strange that this is flagged. my parent asked for proof that suffering is inherent in life, and I don't know anyone who has said that the physical act of giving birth is anything but painful.
  - lukan 1y ago
    No, I asked for proof that a constant condition of suffering is inherent of life. Not that suffering is also part of life. (Vouched for it to be able to reply)
    - Noaidi 1y ago
      There is no such thing as constant suffering and there’s no such thing as constant joy. Without suffering, we would not know joy and without joy we wouldn’t know suffering. So these are two sides of the same coin, do you see that? It’s our attachment to ourselves that brings us both joy and suffering. So, I’m sorry, if you want to get rid of suffering you’re going to get rid of joy as well. So I don’t know if dying brings us joy or gets rid of our suffering. We really don’t know what happens to us after we die, do we? You can say that everything just ends, but I’m really not wanting to say that because, well, I’m still alive. I told my schizophrenic brother why he shouldn’t take his life by suicide. I just asked him if he knew what it was like being dead and if he thought he was certain that being dead would be any better. He literally told me the confusion of that question. Let him to accepting his life as it was. Better the Devil You Know than the one you don’t.
      - jncfhnb 1y ago
        > Without suffering, we would not know joy and without joy we wouldn’t know suffering. So these are two sides of the same coin, do you see that? Bullshit argument. The suffering that many people experience is profound. These people don’t have a more profound experience of joy than those whose lives are chill. And the happy lives of people who haven’t suffered are not better because the sufferers have felt worse. > I told my schizophrenic brother why he shouldn’t take his life by suicide. I just asked him if he knew what it was like being dead and if he thought he was certain that being dead would be any better. He literally told me the confusion of that question. Let him to accepting his life as it was. Better the Devil You Know than the one you don’t. “You should suffer because the next part may be even worse suffering” is such a fucked up argument.
        Noaidi 1y ago
- Noaidi 1y ago
  The first of the four noble truths set fourth by the Buddha: The truth of dukkha: Recognizing that suffering is a fundamental part of existence They even call Joy “hidden suffering”. Because whenever the thing is that gives us joy, if we become attached to it and it is taken away then we have suffering. And the Christians believe that the suffering of Christ was needed to forgive everyone of their sins. So they both view suffering as an important aspect of life. Something to be used for learning and understanding the human condition. But the buddhist and the Christians believe that you can escape what you would think of a state of constant suffering through religious practices. It’s the faith the American slaves had in Christ that got them through their state of living hell. And we’ve even seen a Buddhist light themselves on fire to protest the war in Vietnam. So I’m sorry, but I can’t look upon suffering as something that’s negative and I accept it as part of life and just as I can learn things from joy and I can learn things from suffering, and they are both the same size of the coin and equally as valuable.
cwillu 1y ago
[flagged]
circlefavshape 1y ago
Let's see how you handle suffering when it comes knocking on your door
- lukan 1y ago
  He shared his brother had shizophrenia and much later died of it. I assume he did got a glimpse into what suffering means. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45548996 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45548996
  - leakycap 1y ago
    Seeing someone else experience something is not the same as having it happen to you, and those who wish to instill their opinion on others often have the smallest worldviews and ability to think about what it might be like to experience what someone else is going through.
    - Noaidi 1y ago
      Please stop assuming you know what suffering I’ve had in my own body and my own life. I don’t wish to discuss it here, but I don’t think it needs to be discussed. My experience doesn’t matter in the logic of the argument.
      - leakycap 1y ago
        If you don't want to talk about it, you can't expect anyone around you to take it into account. You can leave it unsaid if you aren't going to say it, and either way you claim it isn't relevant.
        Noaidi 1y ago
        I am saying it’s relevant because suffering is suffering. It has the same source so it does not matter if it’s a big suffering or a little suffering. Understanding suffering does not need a degree of suffering. It just needs suffering. The man in the original article was not suffering at all yet he killed himself. What kind of suffering was that? It’s not that he was suffering. He didn’t wanna suffer at all. He didn’t want to suffer shame. This man knew so little about suffering that he took his own life rather than try to figure it out and the remaining years of his life.
raw_anon_1111 1y ago
If I’m 95 years old with terminal cancer, my life isn’t going to get better. And please don’t bring some mythical being in the argument.
- Noaidi 1y ago
  Both the Buddha andJesus were real people. I wasn’t bringing up God as I don’t believe in a Christian God, and Buddhists don’t believe in God at all. But those two characters taught us a lot about suffering. Where it comes from and how to face suffering with courage and not just throw your morals out the window once you have the glimpse of even future suffering. Maybe it’s just me, but I see every moment as the best it can possibly be. Whether I’m seeing this gorgeous sunny blue sky today or I’m 95 years old with terminal cancer. It’s a miracle to be born and to exist in this world, it’s extremely rare. And I want to live every last second of it. Maybe that’s what’s upsetting me about reading what he wrote. If you just try to grab the good times in this life and use that as a goal you’re going to be severely disappointed.
  - leakycap 1y ago
    > If you just try to grab the good times in this life and use that as a goal you’re going to be severely disappointed. No, it sounds like you would be disappointed in that scenario. Many would be elated to get through this hell-hole relatively joyous & unscathed.
  - lukan 1y ago
    "And I want to live every last second of it." Glad for you. I really hope you never come into a situation that you wish for your life to end. But please take into account, that other people might experience life different at times. No one has a death wish, because things are a bit rough sometimes. But if life is constant hell and when there is no hope anymore. Then you wish for death to release you. (Also do you know what latestage cancer can mean? Constant pain that does not go away, ever. And Jesus might have been a real person, but that he choose crucification out of his own choice is very much part of the mythological story that other people told after his death)
Viliam1234 1y ago
> Suffering has a purpose Maybe some suffering has a purpose, and some suffering does not? It doesn't have to be always this or always that.

by Noaidi 1y ago

lukan 1y ago

Well, but what if I ain't a christian nor a buddhist and don't think suffering as a normal living condition is necessary? (Can you proof it is? Also I don't think all christians/buddhists share that believe) So sure, suffering and pain are part of life. And accepting that helps a lot to not get stuck in that condition by avoiding painful things, you cannot avoid. "Anyone can say that about their life right now, can't they?" So no, not anyone is saying that. Only those with a death wish. And I don't consider having a death wish as a mental condition. It can of course result of a illness, but it can also be a consciouss wish and then finally a decision. And if other people decide they may not do this, but have to remain in their state of living hell, then this is just torture to me.

hrimfaxi 1y ago
> Well, but what if I ain't a christian nor a buddhist and don't think suffering as a normal living condition is necessary? (Can you proof it is? Also I don't think all christians/buddhists share that believe) At the very least, suffering (through childbirth) is a prerequisite to bringing life into this world. edit: strange that this is flagged. my parent asked for proof that suffering is inherent in life, and I don't know anyone who has said that the physical act of giving birth is anything but painful.
- lukan 1y ago
  No, I asked for proof that a constant condition of suffering is inherent of life. Not that suffering is also part of life. (Vouched for it to be able to reply)
  - Noaidi 1y ago
    There is no such thing as constant suffering and there’s no such thing as constant joy. Without suffering, we would not know joy and without joy we wouldn’t know suffering. So these are two sides of the same coin, do you see that? It’s our attachment to ourselves that brings us both joy and suffering. So, I’m sorry, if you want to get rid of suffering you’re going to get rid of joy as well. So I don’t know if dying brings us joy or gets rid of our suffering. We really don’t know what happens to us after we die, do we? You can say that everything just ends, but I’m really not wanting to say that because, well, I’m still alive. I told my schizophrenic brother why he shouldn’t take his life by suicide. I just asked him if he knew what it was like being dead and if he thought he was certain that being dead would be any better. He literally told me the confusion of that question. Let him to accepting his life as it was. Better the Devil You Know than the one you don’t.
    - jncfhnb 1y ago
      > Without suffering, we would not know joy and without joy we wouldn’t know suffering. So these are two sides of the same coin, do you see that? Bullshit argument. The suffering that many people experience is profound. These people don’t have a more profound experience of joy than those whose lives are chill. And the happy lives of people who haven’t suffered are not better because the sufferers have felt worse. > I told my schizophrenic brother why he shouldn’t take his life by suicide. I just asked him if he knew what it was like being dead and if he thought he was certain that being dead would be any better. He literally told me the confusion of that question. Let him to accepting his life as it was. Better the Devil You Know than the one you don’t. “You should suffer because the next part may be even worse suffering” is such a fucked up argument.
      - Noaidi 1y ago
Noaidi 1y ago
The first of the four noble truths set fourth by the Buddha: The truth of dukkha: Recognizing that suffering is a fundamental part of existence They even call Joy “hidden suffering”. Because whenever the thing is that gives us joy, if we become attached to it and it is taken away then we have suffering. And the Christians believe that the suffering of Christ was needed to forgive everyone of their sins. So they both view suffering as an important aspect of life. Something to be used for learning and understanding the human condition. But the buddhist and the Christians believe that you can escape what you would think of a state of constant suffering through religious practices. It’s the faith the American slaves had in Christ that got them through their state of living hell. And we’ve even seen a Buddhist light themselves on fire to protest the war in Vietnam. So I’m sorry, but I can’t look upon suffering as something that’s negative and I accept it as part of life and just as I can learn things from joy and I can learn things from suffering, and they are both the same size of the coin and equally as valuable.

cwillu 1y ago

[flagged]

circlefavshape 1y ago

Let's see how you handle suffering when it comes knocking on your door

lukan 1y ago
He shared his brother had shizophrenia and much later died of it. I assume he did got a glimpse into what suffering means. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45548996 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45548996
- leakycap 1y ago
  Seeing someone else experience something is not the same as having it happen to you, and those who wish to instill their opinion on others often have the smallest worldviews and ability to think about what it might be like to experience what someone else is going through.
  - Noaidi 1y ago
    Please stop assuming you know what suffering I’ve had in my own body and my own life. I don’t wish to discuss it here, but I don’t think it needs to be discussed. My experience doesn’t matter in the logic of the argument.
    - leakycap 1y ago
      If you don't want to talk about it, you can't expect anyone around you to take it into account. You can leave it unsaid if you aren't going to say it, and either way you claim it isn't relevant.
      - Noaidi 1y ago
        I am saying it’s relevant because suffering is suffering. It has the same source so it does not matter if it’s a big suffering or a little suffering. Understanding suffering does not need a degree of suffering. It just needs suffering. The man in the original article was not suffering at all yet he killed himself. What kind of suffering was that? It’s not that he was suffering. He didn’t wanna suffer at all. He didn’t want to suffer shame. This man knew so little about suffering that he took his own life rather than try to figure it out and the remaining years of his life.

raw_anon_1111 1y ago

If I’m 95 years old with terminal cancer, my life isn’t going to get better. And please don’t bring some mythical being in the argument.

Noaidi 1y ago
Both the Buddha andJesus were real people. I wasn’t bringing up God as I don’t believe in a Christian God, and Buddhists don’t believe in God at all. But those two characters taught us a lot about suffering. Where it comes from and how to face suffering with courage and not just throw your morals out the window once you have the glimpse of even future suffering. Maybe it’s just me, but I see every moment as the best it can possibly be. Whether I’m seeing this gorgeous sunny blue sky today or I’m 95 years old with terminal cancer. It’s a miracle to be born and to exist in this world, it’s extremely rare. And I want to live every last second of it. Maybe that’s what’s upsetting me about reading what he wrote. If you just try to grab the good times in this life and use that as a goal you’re going to be severely disappointed.
- leakycap 1y ago
  > If you just try to grab the good times in this life and use that as a goal you’re going to be severely disappointed. No, it sounds like you would be disappointed in that scenario. Many would be elated to get through this hell-hole relatively joyous & unscathed.
- lukan 1y ago
  "And I want to live every last second of it." Glad for you. I really hope you never come into a situation that you wish for your life to end. But please take into account, that other people might experience life different at times. No one has a death wish, because things are a bit rough sometimes. But if life is constant hell and when there is no hope anymore. Then you wish for death to release you. (Also do you know what latestage cancer can mean? Constant pain that does not go away, ever. And Jesus might have been a real person, but that he choose crucification out of his own choice is very much part of the mythological story that other people told after his death)

Viliam1234 1y ago

> Suffering has a purpose Maybe some suffering has a purpose, and some suffering does not? It doesn't have to be always this or always that.