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I think this is a rude question to ask, and it would reflect negatively on you, the company, and the group dynamics, if I were asked it. It shows an unprofessi

by nomel 1y ago

I think this is a rude question to ask, and it would reflect negatively on you, the company, and the group dynamics, if I were asked it. It shows an unprofessional and inappropriate interest in things unrelated to work, and, from my experience, is a good indicator that the person will either micromanage, has poor work life balance, or is not socially fit to be a manager. I know that sounds super harsh, but you should seriously reconsider. You're going to scare people away. There's a power dynamic that you don't seem to be aware of, during the interview process. It's not your concern what they do with their free time, unless they present it to you, unprovoked. This is from someone who has interviewed hundreds of people. Besides all of that, it opens you up to litigation for discrimination, depending on the answer they give. I suggest talking with your HR department. Where I am now, questions about personal life are strictly prohibited, for that reason. edit: please note the "unprovoked". If people want to share the projects they do in their personal time, they will include it in their resume as a line item. I've seen it in probably 30% of the candidates. It means "ask me about these things". edit: better yet, just rephrase, so it's not a potentially uncomfortable probe into personal time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45543812 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45543812

Aurornis 1y ago
> It shows an unprofessional and inappropriate interest in things unrelated to work, No, it's a chance for candidates to bring up relevant experience that might help their candidacy. The question isn't about things unrelated to work. The question is asking if they have any additional experience outside of work that might help us better understand their skills for their job application. Many people have relevant experience for the job that they gained outside of work. Asking about that is not only okay, it's a good thing. > and, from my experience, is a good indicator that the person will either micromanage, has poor work life balance, or is not socially fit to be a manager. Asking candidates if they have any extra experience to share is not an indicator of micromanaging. Jumping to completely unrelated conclusions and drawing extreme assumptions about people is not a good way to interpret a question like that. I explained that the question cannot have any negative value to the candidate. It's a chance to bring up extra things if they have them and we didn't cover them. Literally doing the candidate a favor, not being rude or micromanaging. > It also opens you up to litigation for discrimination, depending on the answer they give. I suggest talking with your HR department. Asking candidates to share their work-relevant experience does not invite discrimination lawsuits. How are you coming up with these interpretations? Legal was involved in reviewing our hiring processes, so no need for condescending lectures about getting HR involved.
- nomel 1y ago
  > Asking candidates to share their work-relevant experience does not invite discrimination lawsuits. I suggest you talk to your HR department. This isn't my interpretation, it's that of our cooperate lawyers. If they say "I just had a kid, I spend time with them", is a good example. This should be obvious to you, which is further evidence you should not be asking these questions. edit: can't reply directly. No, that's not how it works. You being made aware of it, and you using that information is enough. Good luck!
  - Aurornis 1y ago
    > If they say "I just had a kid, I spend time with them", is a good example. Your understanding of these laws is flawed. A candidate volunteering information doesn't make the company liable for discrimination against them. It's a common misconception that if topics like having kids or being married comes up in an interview then the company is liable to be sued for discrimination. It should be obvious that a candidate can't entrap a company by injecting this information into the interview when it wasn't asked. Even if the interviewers do ask, a discrimination lawsuit has a much higher bar than the topic simply coming up in the interview. It has to be demonstrated that the information was used to discriminate against the applicant, not just that it was discussed. Your interpretation of my question is also flawed. I'm not asking "Tell me what you do in your free time." I'm asking them if they have anything outside of work that they'd like to share that would help their case. > I suggest you talk to your HR department. Please read my entire comment. The legal team reviewed our interview process and had no problems with it. I think maybe your HR department has tried extra hard to scare you away from subjects they want to avoid, which has led to a misunderstanding of how the law actually works. It's common for HR professionals to tell interviewers that there are "illegal questions" or that if a topic comes up at all then you're going to get sued for discrimination. In reality, the legal bar for these cases is much higher. HR professionals just want to scare interviewers away entirely and drive the point home. Asking candidates if they have an additional experience to share isn't an invitation for discrimination lawsuits. I suggest you open your mind a little bit and consider that some candidates may have more to offer than appears on the bullet points under each job on their resume.
nostrademons 1y ago
Luckily you guys can work at different companies and not have to interact except on HN. (Personally I've been on both sides of this - early in my career I had a ton of hobby projects, wrote compilers for fun, and would often ask the interviewers what was the most interesting project they've worked on, either for work or for fun. Now I have a family, work stays at work, home stays at home, and I don't really care what my reports do on their own time. But different segments of the tech industry will fall on different ends of this spectrum. Know what you want and don't waste time interviewing at places where the culture is dramatically different.)
- nomel 1y ago
  > and would often ask the interviewers what was the most interesting project they've worked on And that's unprovoked. That doesn't conflict with what I said (I intentionally included it). Whenever someone is interesting in sharing, they present the work themselves. They provide their GitHub link, or include it on their resume, mention it, etc.
  - Aurornis 1y ago
    > And that's unprovoked. That doesn't conflict with what I said (I intentionally included it). How is asking a direct question to the candidate "unprovoked"? This doesn't make sense. > Whenever someone is interesting in sharing, they present the work themselves. They provide their GitHub link, or include it on their resume, mention it, etc. No, they do not always do this. This isn't a good assumption. Asking candidates if they have anything extra to share reveals additional projects quite frequently. I would know because I do ask.
    - nomel 1y ago
      I was responding to what above above said, in the context of an interviewee: > and would often ask the interviewers what was the most interesting project they've worked on Above asking, and initiating the conversation, is clearly unprovoked. A interviewer asking them isn't the same as them asking an interviewer, where their answer potentially means you don't get hired. The interviewer is forcing an answer about their free time. It's "provoked". edit: "you" to "above".

by nomel 1y ago

Aurornis 1y ago

> It shows an unprofessional and inappropriate interest in things unrelated to work, No, it's a chance for candidates to bring up relevant experience that might help their candidacy. The question isn't about things unrelated to work. The question is asking if they have any additional experience outside of work that might help us better understand their skills for their job application. Many people have relevant experience for the job that they gained outside of work. Asking about that is not only okay, it's a good thing. > and, from my experience, is a good indicator that the person will either micromanage, has poor work life balance, or is not socially fit to be a manager. Asking candidates if they have any extra experience to share is not an indicator of micromanaging. Jumping to completely unrelated conclusions and drawing extreme assumptions about people is not a good way to interpret a question like that. I explained that the question cannot have any negative value to the candidate. It's a chance to bring up extra things if they have them and we didn't cover them. Literally doing the candidate a favor, not being rude or micromanaging. > It also opens you up to litigation for discrimination, depending on the answer they give. I suggest talking with your HR department. Asking candidates to share their work-relevant experience does not invite discrimination lawsuits. How are you coming up with these interpretations? Legal was involved in reviewing our hiring processes, so no need for condescending lectures about getting HR involved.

nomel 1y ago
> Asking candidates to share their work-relevant experience does not invite discrimination lawsuits. I suggest you talk to your HR department. This isn't my interpretation, it's that of our cooperate lawyers. If they say "I just had a kid, I spend time with them", is a good example. This should be obvious to you, which is further evidence you should not be asking these questions. edit: can't reply directly. No, that's not how it works. You being made aware of it, and you using that information is enough. Good luck!
- Aurornis 1y ago
  > If they say "I just had a kid, I spend time with them", is a good example. Your understanding of these laws is flawed. A candidate volunteering information doesn't make the company liable for discrimination against them. It's a common misconception that if topics like having kids or being married comes up in an interview then the company is liable to be sued for discrimination. It should be obvious that a candidate can't entrap a company by injecting this information into the interview when it wasn't asked. Even if the interviewers do ask, a discrimination lawsuit has a much higher bar than the topic simply coming up in the interview. It has to be demonstrated that the information was used to discriminate against the applicant, not just that it was discussed. Your interpretation of my question is also flawed. I'm not asking "Tell me what you do in your free time." I'm asking them if they have anything outside of work that they'd like to share that would help their case. > I suggest you talk to your HR department. Please read my entire comment. The legal team reviewed our interview process and had no problems with it. I think maybe your HR department has tried extra hard to scare you away from subjects they want to avoid, which has led to a misunderstanding of how the law actually works. It's common for HR professionals to tell interviewers that there are "illegal questions" or that if a topic comes up at all then you're going to get sued for discrimination. In reality, the legal bar for these cases is much higher. HR professionals just want to scare interviewers away entirely and drive the point home. Asking candidates if they have an additional experience to share isn't an invitation for discrimination lawsuits. I suggest you open your mind a little bit and consider that some candidates may have more to offer than appears on the bullet points under each job on their resume.

nostrademons 1y ago

Luckily you guys can work at different companies and not have to interact except on HN. (Personally I've been on both sides of this - early in my career I had a ton of hobby projects, wrote compilers for fun, and would often ask the interviewers what was the most interesting project they've worked on, either for work or for fun. Now I have a family, work stays at work, home stays at home, and I don't really care what my reports do on their own time. But different segments of the tech industry will fall on different ends of this spectrum. Know what you want and don't waste time interviewing at places where the culture is dramatically different.)

nomel 1y ago
> and would often ask the interviewers what was the most interesting project they've worked on And that's unprovoked. That doesn't conflict with what I said (I intentionally included it). Whenever someone is interesting in sharing, they present the work themselves. They provide their GitHub link, or include it on their resume, mention it, etc.
- Aurornis 1y ago
  > And that's unprovoked. That doesn't conflict with what I said (I intentionally included it). How is asking a direct question to the candidate "unprovoked"? This doesn't make sense. > Whenever someone is interesting in sharing, they present the work themselves. They provide their GitHub link, or include it on their resume, mention it, etc. No, they do not always do this. This isn't a good assumption. Asking candidates if they have anything extra to share reveals additional projects quite frequently. I would know because I do ask.
  - nomel 1y ago
    I was responding to what above above said, in the context of an interviewee: > and would often ask the interviewers what was the most interesting project they've worked on Above asking, and initiating the conversation, is clearly unprovoked. A interviewer asking them isn't the same as them asking an interviewer, where their answer potentially means you don't get hired. The interviewer is forcing an answer about their free time. It's "provoked". edit: "you" to "above".