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I would go even further: banning all ads, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43595269 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43595269
by fsflover 1y ago
I would go even further: banning all ads, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43595269 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43595269
- dangus 1y agoSounds like a good way to trap everyone with incumbent corporations. No quitting your corporate job to start your own business, you’re not allowed to advertise.
- dietr1ch 1y agoYou are conflating slapping ads in people's faces with making your business listed on the white/yellow/whatever pages and allowing people to find you without being a jerk.
- esafak 1y agoThat directory for tech would be like ProductHunt. Do you like it?
- JoshTriplett 1y agoThe yellow pages are ads, that's why for a while it was really hard to stop getting the phone company to stop leaving it as trash on your doorstep.
- dietr1ch 1y agoBut we don't need paper these days. What I meant is to switch from being shown somewhat relevant ads while you try to do something else, to searching for relevant stuff whenever you truly need it.
- guiambros 1y agoYellow pages, really? Like, let's ban ads and brig back yellow pages", and everything will be solved? And, if you were not aware, how do you think Yellow Pages made money? [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_pages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_pages
- gus_massa 1y agoNot that I think it's a good idea, but ... You go to Google, type "refrigerator" and you get two buttons * Please show me only adds, sorted by how much they paid to Larry and Sergey * Please show me only somewhat organic results, sorted by relevance or whatever, and discount me $1 to pay for the servers and crawers.
- dietr1ch 1y agoYeah, but serving that doesn't cost that much and dropping the advertisement platform would drop it further (and let engineers fix search instead of shaving milliseconds from ad bidding)
- dangus 1y ago1. Yellow pages were paid ads 2. If a “directory” is the only advertising mechanism allowed it benefits the incumbents because incumbents are the only ones who have existing brand recognition. I don’t need a directory to know about Coca-Cola or Google Maps. You would have had to ban advertising at the dawn of time for this to work.
- dietr1ch 1y ago1. It makes sense that the business are the ones paying to get listed and vetted. We are now starting to need those blue checkmarks for a reason, some verification process is necessary, and then serving costs. 2. Why? You wouldn't search by business name, but by need. What about "nearby bakeries" or "pop soda" only benefits the better known brands? Indexing by name isn't the only way.
- dangus 1y agoFor #1 I think the idea basically violates the idea of banning advertising. For #2, I think that established brands essentially wouldn’t need to be searched for. In the status quo I can pay to put up a billboard next to McDonald’s and say “I make a better burger two blocks down.” But if I’m not allowed to do that a lot of people will just assume that McDonald’s is the place to go for a fast food burger.
- dietr1ch 1y ago1. No, it puts people in control of when they query the index instead of spamming everywhere eyesight could possibly stare at. 2. That's fine, you want something new or something you don't know where to get? Query an index. You want the good ol' experience? Go for what you already know well. If you worry about the people who would never discover anything new, then it's like they don't talk to anybody or have no desire of changing anything, but that's their decision.
- dangus 1y agoWhat if the “good old experience” is Microsoft in the late 1990s with a nearly 100% marketshare? You don’t know anyone who uses another system and you assume that all other options either don’t exist or can’t possibly be as good. There’s almost zero word of mouth and you haven’t bothered to consult a directory since you’re 100% confident that the only operating system in the world is Windows [1] Do you not recognize how this scenario can work to preserve monopolies? How does Apple come back from the brink of bankruptcy without their iconic iMac and iPod marketing campaigns? And how do you flip the switch to making advertising illegal when incumbent companies have already enjoyed the benefit of legal advertising for hundreds of years? We ban advertising, and I start my new soft drink company, but Coca-Cola got to advertise for 100+ years already. The cat has been out of the bag for thousands of years. [1] https://www.overclock.net/threads/teacher-calls-linux-%E2%80%9Cillegal%E2%80%9D-threatens-to-call-cops.424430/ https://www.overclock.net/threads/teacher-calls-linux-%E2%80...
- simion314 1y agoThere could be an index where you list your product/service, so people can find your stuff when they need it. But yeah will be harder to manipulate people to buy your miracle supplement or other garbage that is 99% of the current ads I see. I do not watch Tv, use ad blockers so after years of not watching TV I watched a bit recently and most ads are supplements/"naturists medicine" and for some reasons on youtube without the ad blocker they always show me the same ad over and over again(it is funny Google is trying to sell me the product from the company I work for, and somehow showing me same ad each day would convince someone to eventually try something they are not interested in)
- thewebguyd 1y ago> showing me same ad each day would convince someone to eventually try something they are not interested in * not interested in right now. Showing the same ad to the same person (or cohort of people) works. Eventually, someone in the cohort may be interested in that product/service at some point in their lfie and they are more likely to pick a brand they are familiar with. They are now familiar with that brand after having seen it everywhere all over their internet browsing, sometimes for months or years at a time.
- porridgeraisin 1y agoYeah. Don't want that. Of course it works, but so does drugging people. Doesn't mean it needs to be allowed. When I want it, ill initiate a fresh search and find whatever I find, at that time. Don't want things leeching into my subconscious just because you want it to be your brand that I use later.
- dangus 1y agoWhat’s your stance on signage on physical brick and mortar businesses? Logos on products? Where should we be drawing this line? And who benefits most from that line being drawn?
- porridgeraisin 1y ago
- thewebguyd 1y agoThat'd be great. But how would you define what's advertising and what's not? I've built a relatively successful professional photography side hussle without "advertising" as in, I've never paid for an ad on any of the social platforms or google ads. Most of my business comes from word of mouth, or hits on my website. But, is the SEO I do advertising? What about when I share my work to my socials, is that advertising? Post a reel of behind the scenes footage of me photographing a wedding so potential clients can see my process, is that advertising? I do all of those things with the goal to drum up business, but they fall outside of the traditional meaning of the word. Likewise with product placement in films, influencer marketing, etc. How do we even begin to draw the line at what is an advertisement and whats not?
- Certhas 1y agoWe have successfully banned Cigarette ads. Not saying there aren't things to sort out, and lines to be drawn, but it's by no means impossible.
- jacobgkau 1y agoWe've successfully banned cigarette ads from TV and radio. We haven't banned them from the wall at gas stations. They're also not banned on the internet, legally. Do you want to ban advertising, or ban TV and radio advertising?
- xnorswap 1y agoYour jurisdiction might not have, mine has, for almost 30 years now. They're sold under the counter (literally) / behind shutters, in plain packaging. They certainly are not advertised on posters.
- noir_lord 1y agoIn the UK they are sold behind blank displays and the packaging is generic as well. Sure it’s Unrelated but smoking is now 1 in 8 adults and dropping. You can ban this type of advertising if you enforce it.
- baby 1y agoIMO a bad idea, ads help with discoverability and is one of the most effective mechanism for growth. This includes for small and big businesses. I think it makes more sense to target what kind of ads should be banned (e.g. politics, alcohol, cigarets, religion, etc.) and what ads format should be banned (e.g. loud ads, ads in the subway, etc.)
- walkabout 1y ago> what ads format should be banned Practically all of them unless I've asked to receive them. I'd absolutely sign up to receive info about new products from certain industry groups, niche product promoters, some stores, et c.
- baby 1y agoI get that you're upset at ads in general, because they're on your face all the time, but banning them out right doesn't seem right. I mean this is what keeps a lot of very useful services free.
- renewiltord 1y agoPlease don't shill someone's blog here. This kind of "native advertising" is not appreciated. If you have a point, make it. Don't just use it as an opportunity to astroturf a blog.
- fsflover 1y agoI gave a link to an extensive HN discussion, not a blog.
- renewiltord 1y agoSure you did. And the link at the top of the page was just a coincidental "banner ad" that you had nothing to do with. If you simply wanted to share that content without the link, it's just plain HTML. Trivial to do. It's not ethical for you to be doing this kind of submarine advertising on HN without disclosure. Please just admit what you're doing rather than pretending.
- fsflover 1y agoLet me disclose that I have no connection whatsoever with the linked blog.
- Dylan16807 1y agoAre you doing some kind of bit here? It's easier to share HTML than... a link? If this is supposed to be an analogy to how people will argue over what's an ad so a rule is infeasible, it's a bad analogy. If it's literal then you're not making sense.