5 ms·

> Doesn't write a line of code when he comes home (at least according to him), basically severs himself from work as soon as he leaves work. I'm truly curios w

> Doesn't write a line of code when he comes home (at least according to him), basically severs himself from work as soon as he leaves work. I'm truly curios what percentage of programmers do write code outside of work. I'd bet the actually percentage is pretty low, especially those who've been at it for five years or more. I don't know that I ever did, except when I first started.

Insanity 1y ago
I did for maybe the first 10 years of my career. Then it kinda died down because family and other obligations increased so had less and less spare time. Also, the older I’m getting the more I’m prioritizing activities that benefit my body. Working out more, home cooked meals (so learning to actually cook well instead of throwing things together and hoping for the best). I miss the side projects sometimes. At least I still do AoC yearly.
fragmede 1y ago
Shit, how many programmers barely write code at work anymore because that's not what their job is? And I'm not talking about new AI things, I'm talking about design docs and meetings and OKRs.
- ryandrake 1y ago
  I programmed at home as a hobby before I worked in the industry. Then, when I worked as a software developer, I pretty much stopped entirely because I did enough software at work. Finally, I moved over to the dark side to start doing product management and project management, and I've re-started hobby projects.
  - d_tr 1y ago
    If they try to take me away from my compiler and my code to do irrelevant stuff I'm just going to quit.
schmookeeg 1y ago
I'm surprised at this expectation. I work hard to cultivate hobbies outside of programming, but inevitably, I find a way to improve that other hobby with software. I'm just wired like that I think. I love systems. Code is my love language. :) I'm currently trying to digitize a hopelessly analog procedure to calibrate aircraft engine fuel injection systems. Rpi, transducers, and python to the rescue! :D
humanfromearth9 1y ago
It's a bit like saying from HR employees that they don't recruit/fire people after hours, for fun. Or surgeons don't operate after hours. Software developer is a job with really weird expectations from outsiders. Show me your GitHub! Show me your side projects! You can't be good if you are not passionate even after a day's work! Devs must have high IQs, have autistic traits, a university degree, master algorithms and several programming paradigms and are expected to simultaneously be able to integrate well in any team with average people, while science already identified that this is more difficult for such people...
- dasil003 1y ago
  Sure, but there's no single person that believes engineers must be all those things, you're conflating many opinions to form an impossible litmus test. In reality as the GP pointed out: great engineers don't all fit the same mold, and frankly neither do all jobs and hiring manager expectations.
- renewiltord 1y ago
  I don't know man, my parents are surgeons and they're just as much vocateurs as I am. I have come home from football to see a surgical video on the TV. I cannot imagine being something else. Why would I not care about my primary thing? My wife is a creative director and she draws and paints in her spare time. There's all kinds of people in the world and I like to work with vocateurs. That's an opt-in choice and others can go work with others. No harm done.
Aurornis 1y ago
When I do interviews I like to ask candidates if they want to share anything interesting they've made, studied, worked on, or played with outside of their jobs. I explain their answer can only help, not hurt, as a non-answer is not a negative. It's simply an opportunity to bring up something that wouldn't normally come up during the work-history driven interview. Very few candidates say they've done any programming outside of their jobs. At most, they share something like running Home Assistant on a Raspberry Pi and using Python to automate their house or something. Another common one is to hear about how they used an Arduino or Raspberry Pi to accomplish some small task. Very few people say they have side projects. Of those who do, when I ask for details most admit it never went far beyond the idea phase. So from what I can deduce, it's very uncommon for programmers to have true side projects that go beyond a couple git commits worth of code to solve some task, or an idea they had that they never followed up on.
- mycall 1y ago
  Side projects are less interesting as the number of decades you write software for a living increases. Of course, everyone is different here and use cases arise.
- nomel 1y ago
  I think this is a rude question to ask, and it would reflect negatively on you, the company, and the group dynamics, if I were asked it. It shows an unprofessional and inappropriate interest in things unrelated to work, and, from my experience, is a good indicator that the person will either micromanage, has poor work life balance, or is not socially fit to be a manager. I know that sounds super harsh, but you should seriously reconsider. You're going to scare people away. There's a power dynamic that you don't seem to be aware of, during the interview process. It's not your concern what they do with their free time, unless they present it to you, unprovoked. This is from someone who has interviewed hundreds of people. Besides all of that, it opens you up to litigation for discrimination, depending on the answer they give. I suggest talking with your HR department. Where I am now, questions about personal life are strictly prohibited, for that reason. edit: please note the "unprovoked". If people want to share the projects they do in their personal time, they will include it in their resume as a line item. I've seen it in probably 30% of the candidates. It means "ask me about these things". edit: better yet, just rephrase, so it's not a potentially uncomfortable probe into personal time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45543812 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45543812
ACCount37 1y ago
The field is pretty big. There are total mercs who only code because they get the big $$$ for it and wouldn't write a line otherwise, and there are idealist hackers who would keep coding 10 hours a day in "starving artist" mode even if they couldn't get jack for it. And anything in between.
marssaxman 1y ago
I spent roughly 25 years writing code for a living while also writing code for fun. I think this was pretty normal when I got started; coding was neither cool nor especially lucrative back then, so the people who were into it were into it, for its own sake. I didn't stop coding in my free time because I stopped enjoying it, either, but because I could no longer sustain the fantasy that anyone was going to use any of the stuff I wanted to build. The level of motivation I feel for a project which is not going anywhere is not high enough to sustain me for more than a week or two.
dunham 1y ago
I dabble at home, but it looks nothing like work code. I also started writing code for fun as a kid, before doing it professionally. I do find it hard to do much after a day of work and taking care of family. (I've just been laid off after 20 years at my company, so I guess I've got more free time now.) Last year I wrote a self-hosted dependent typed programming language, after spending a couple of years helping out with Idris and learning how those languages work. I started that process because I was pretty burned out and needed something stimulating to do. Before that, it was little things, like code to read various binary file formats. E.g. a read-only sqlite implementation, code to read realm databases, reading indexed db off of disk for various browsers, decoding apple notes database, decoding iOS backups.
- dekhn 1y ago
  Like you I put an enormous amount of personal free time into software engineering in my career. It had massive benefits that have paid out in many, many ways. Some days, when I wrap up work, I feel burnt out and just watch TV shows or make food. Other days, I get so into what I'm coding (for fun/edification) that I look up and it's 10PM. It helps to have a long term view- my expectation is that I will be working on projects for a decade or more, slowly getting more knowledgeable, so i don't see a need to rush or overwork.
davidgay 1y ago
I'd write code after work if I wasn't writing code at work ;) But...

Insanity 1y ago

I did for maybe the first 10 years of my career. Then it kinda died down because family and other obligations increased so had less and less spare time. Also, the older I’m getting the more I’m prioritizing activities that benefit my body. Working out more, home cooked meals (so learning to actually cook well instead of throwing things together and hoping for the best). I miss the side projects sometimes. At least I still do AoC yearly.

fragmede 1y ago

Shit, how many programmers barely write code at work anymore because that's not what their job is? And I'm not talking about new AI things, I'm talking about design docs and meetings and OKRs.

ryandrake 1y ago
I programmed at home as a hobby before I worked in the industry. Then, when I worked as a software developer, I pretty much stopped entirely because I did enough software at work. Finally, I moved over to the dark side to start doing product management and project management, and I've re-started hobby projects.
- d_tr 1y ago
  If they try to take me away from my compiler and my code to do irrelevant stuff I'm just going to quit.

schmookeeg 1y ago

I'm surprised at this expectation. I work hard to cultivate hobbies outside of programming, but inevitably, I find a way to improve that other hobby with software. I'm just wired like that I think. I love systems. Code is my love language. :) I'm currently trying to digitize a hopelessly analog procedure to calibrate aircraft engine fuel injection systems. Rpi, transducers, and python to the rescue! :D

humanfromearth9 1y ago

It's a bit like saying from HR employees that they don't recruit/fire people after hours, for fun. Or surgeons don't operate after hours. Software developer is a job with really weird expectations from outsiders. Show me your GitHub! Show me your side projects! You can't be good if you are not passionate even after a day's work! Devs must have high IQs, have autistic traits, a university degree, master algorithms and several programming paradigms and are expected to simultaneously be able to integrate well in any team with average people, while science already identified that this is more difficult for such people...

dasil003 1y ago
Sure, but there's no single person that believes engineers must be all those things, you're conflating many opinions to form an impossible litmus test. In reality as the GP pointed out: great engineers don't all fit the same mold, and frankly neither do all jobs and hiring manager expectations.
renewiltord 1y ago
I don't know man, my parents are surgeons and they're just as much vocateurs as I am. I have come home from football to see a surgical video on the TV. I cannot imagine being something else. Why would I not care about my primary thing? My wife is a creative director and she draws and paints in her spare time. There's all kinds of people in the world and I like to work with vocateurs. That's an opt-in choice and others can go work with others. No harm done.

Aurornis 1y ago

When I do interviews I like to ask candidates if they want to share anything interesting they've made, studied, worked on, or played with outside of their jobs. I explain their answer can only help, not hurt, as a non-answer is not a negative. It's simply an opportunity to bring up something that wouldn't normally come up during the work-history driven interview. Very few candidates say they've done any programming outside of their jobs. At most, they share something like running Home Assistant on a Raspberry Pi and using Python to automate their house or something. Another common one is to hear about how they used an Arduino or Raspberry Pi to accomplish some small task. Very few people say they have side projects. Of those who do, when I ask for details most admit it never went far beyond the idea phase. So from what I can deduce, it's very uncommon for programmers to have true side projects that go beyond a couple git commits worth of code to solve some task, or an idea they had that they never followed up on.

mycall 1y ago
Side projects are less interesting as the number of decades you write software for a living increases. Of course, everyone is different here and use cases arise.
nomel 1y ago
I think this is a rude question to ask, and it would reflect negatively on you, the company, and the group dynamics, if I were asked it. It shows an unprofessional and inappropriate interest in things unrelated to work, and, from my experience, is a good indicator that the person will either micromanage, has poor work life balance, or is not socially fit to be a manager. I know that sounds super harsh, but you should seriously reconsider. You're going to scare people away. There's a power dynamic that you don't seem to be aware of, during the interview process. It's not your concern what they do with their free time, unless they present it to you, unprovoked. This is from someone who has interviewed hundreds of people. Besides all of that, it opens you up to litigation for discrimination, depending on the answer they give. I suggest talking with your HR department. Where I am now, questions about personal life are strictly prohibited, for that reason. edit: please note the "unprovoked". If people want to share the projects they do in their personal time, they will include it in their resume as a line item. I've seen it in probably 30% of the candidates. It means "ask me about these things". edit: better yet, just rephrase, so it's not a potentially uncomfortable probe into personal time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45543812 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45543812

ACCount37 1y ago

The field is pretty big. There are total mercs who only code because they get the big $$$ for it and wouldn't write a line otherwise, and there are idealist hackers who would keep coding 10 hours a day in "starving artist" mode even if they couldn't get jack for it. And anything in between.

marssaxman 1y ago

I spent roughly 25 years writing code for a living while also writing code for fun. I think this was pretty normal when I got started; coding was neither cool nor especially lucrative back then, so the people who were into it were into it, for its own sake. I didn't stop coding in my free time because I stopped enjoying it, either, but because I could no longer sustain the fantasy that anyone was going to use any of the stuff I wanted to build. The level of motivation I feel for a project which is not going anywhere is not high enough to sustain me for more than a week or two.

dunham 1y ago

I dabble at home, but it looks nothing like work code. I also started writing code for fun as a kid, before doing it professionally. I do find it hard to do much after a day of work and taking care of family. (I've just been laid off after 20 years at my company, so I guess I've got more free time now.) Last year I wrote a self-hosted dependent typed programming language, after spending a couple of years helping out with Idris and learning how those languages work. I started that process because I was pretty burned out and needed something stimulating to do. Before that, it was little things, like code to read various binary file formats. E.g. a read-only sqlite implementation, code to read realm databases, reading indexed db off of disk for various browsers, decoding apple notes database, decoding iOS backups.

dekhn 1y ago
Like you I put an enormous amount of personal free time into software engineering in my career. It had massive benefits that have paid out in many, many ways. Some days, when I wrap up work, I feel burnt out and just watch TV shows or make food. Other days, I get so into what I'm coding (for fun/edification) that I look up and it's 10PM. It helps to have a long term view- my expectation is that I will be working on projects for a decade or more, slowly getting more knowledgeable, so i don't see a need to rush or overwork.

davidgay 1y ago

I'd write code after work if I wasn't writing code at work ;) But...