5 ms·

I should remind that in a similarly cheerful mood FB dumped support of Jest and a bunch of other libraries. They have a long history of killing successful proje

I should remind that in a similarly cheerful mood FB dumped support of Jest and a bunch of other libraries. They have a long history of killing successful projects. Worse, Vercel is involved, and I literally don't remember anything good about that company. I'd recommend to be very cautious with such news, and use older versions of React for the next couple of years.

wallawe 1y ago
[flagged]
- gettingoverit 1y ago
  Until they dump your startup for no reason, and you'll have to migrate off their undocumented proprietary infrastructure. Please read stories on HN. You're risking your business if you work with them.
- mexicocitinluez 1y ago
  lol this has got to be satire
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- throw-10-8 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - wallawe 1y ago
    I've been using Vercel for > 5 years. Suppose it's possible but that's true for any platform.
    - AstroBen 1y ago
      ...no it isn't If you host your non-nextjs SPA on Cloudflare and they do something you hate.. you move Vercel has every incentive to lock everyone in as hard as possible and raise prices all they can. Not something I'd want to tie my business to
  - brazukadev 1y ago
    > "we could hire a team of devs for what we pay vercel" It will be evenn worse when they see they need one, two, three more engineers to deal with the Next.js mess they created.
    - wallawe 1y ago
      I've been using Next.js since 2017 (before dynamic routes were even a thing!). The app router kinda sucks so we're staying with /pages. No complaints thus far with a team of 6 engineers.
- apwell23 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - daveidol 1y ago
    > Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents, and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken.
    - DonHopkins 1y ago
      Also: please don't shill!
      - wallawe 1y ago
        This is just silly, Don. HN has gotten so mired in negativity that someone who's a genuine fan of a product, and dares to go against the narrative is now a "shill." Also: see definition of shill. I'm just a happy user that runs a startup, and my life is easier because of their existence.
- zanellato19 1y ago
  "Monopolies aren't so bad, the company is treating me quite well" is not a good counter argument.
  - wallawe 1y ago
    do you consider Vercel a monopoly?
iammrpayments 1y ago
They made it possible for Rich Harris to get paid while working on Svelte. Not sure what will happen in the future though.
nonethewiser 1y ago
Jest is the most popular JS testing framework. It's wildly inaccurate to say it was killed.
- azangru 1y ago
  Looks to me it will be dead soon if they don't figure out how to handle ESM imports. More and more libraries stop packaging commonjs for their new versions. I've been bitten first by d3, then by graphql-request (now graffle), then by msw, then by faker-js. Faker-js, for god's sake! They write in their docs that since version 10, they are incompatible with Jest [0]. Jest seems to be going the way of Enzyme and dodo. The maintainer of MSW has been screaming for years for people to drop jest [1] [0] - https://github.com/faker-js/faker/blob/428ff3328b4c4b13ec29d646eea7c4ea98522323/docs/guide/upgrading.md?plain=1#L50 https://github.com/faker-js/faker/blob/428ff3328b4c4b13ec29d... [1] - https://x.com/kettanaito/status/1746165619731382351#m https://x.com/kettanaito/status/1746165619731382351#m
  - sunaookami 1y ago
    Man we have started with Jest tests for our React Native App half a year ago and now we should already drop it? What should we use instead?? Vitest? How's the compatibility? I'm so exhausted man, glad I'm qutting JS dev soon hopefully.
    - azangru 1y ago
      Vitest, yes. Compatibility with jest is great. The ultimate win, of course, would be to use the native Node test runner. See the sourse of the Node.js website - I think they have pulled it off despite running a Node.js app.
      - isaachinman 1y ago
        Problem with vitest is that there's no first class caching if I recall correctly
- gettingoverit 1y ago
pverheggen 1y ago
Vercel is already heavily involved, take a look at the core team: https://react.dev/community/team https://react.dev/community/team This announcement mentions they are separating business and technical governance, I suspect they are trying to limit Vercel's influence, and prevent them from taking it in a direction that only benefits them.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
mdhb 1y ago
It’s time to start moving away from React in general. I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would intentionally pick it in 2025 unless there were serious constraints that forced them to.
- port11 1y ago
  Being generally employable and paying your bills? I don't like Angular one iota but I'd assume people who still choose it have legit reasons. What do you think we should all be using?
  - mdhb 1y ago
    After doing this for so many years now and one thing I’ve really come to see as a fairly fundamental truth at this point is that the more you can align with the underlying platform you’re working with generally the better. And so in that sense, the answer is web components. I know everyone hates the API but it was intentionally designed to be a low level thing to build a developer experience on top of and the best implementation of that right now is Lit. It’s also a pleasure to use and incredibly lightweight and designed to become even more lightweight overtime as new capabilities come to the web like signals in JavaScript or talk of native templating etc. There is another option that I really like for certain kinds of applications which is Flutter which might sound contradictory to my original point because it skips the idea of the DOM entirely and brings its own rendering engine to a canvas element. But it’s set to be the first serious Wasm and WebGPU based UI library on the web and has no problems spitting out 120fps (this is before even they have actually added WebGPU support and their newest rendering engine to the mix by the way) while keeping its rendering engine to I think about 1.5-2mb in size. It also gets you a single codebase that will run literally anywhere as an AOT compiled app. That’s to say nothing of Dart itself which I cannot even begin to describe what a huge improvement it is over JavaScript and Typescript. If you haven’t tried it yet, do yourself a favour. I’m just making the point that JavaScript and the DOM are no longer the only players in town and when you’re not trying to mix abstractions of a document markup language and an application a whole lot of problems just disappear like does this look different in different browsers or can I use this new feature etc.. it just works… everywhere… on the web.. on a desktop.. on a phone or an IoT device.

wallawe 1y ago

[flagged]

gettingoverit 1y ago
Until they dump your startup for no reason, and you'll have to migrate off their undocumented proprietary infrastructure. Please read stories on HN. You're risking your business if you work with them.
mexicocitinluez 1y ago
lol this has got to be satire
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
throw-10-8 1y ago
[flagged]
- wallawe 1y ago
  I've been using Vercel for > 5 years. Suppose it's possible but that's true for any platform.
  - AstroBen 1y ago
    ...no it isn't If you host your non-nextjs SPA on Cloudflare and they do something you hate.. you move Vercel has every incentive to lock everyone in as hard as possible and raise prices all they can. Not something I'd want to tie my business to
- brazukadev 1y ago
  > "we could hire a team of devs for what we pay vercel" It will be evenn worse when they see they need one, two, three more engineers to deal with the Next.js mess they created.
  - wallawe 1y ago
    I've been using Next.js since 2017 (before dynamic routes were even a thing!). The app router kinda sucks so we're staying with /pages. No complaints thus far with a team of 6 engineers.
apwell23 1y ago
[flagged]
- daveidol 1y ago
  > Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents, and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken.
  - DonHopkins 1y ago
    Also: please don't shill!
    - wallawe 1y ago
      This is just silly, Don. HN has gotten so mired in negativity that someone who's a genuine fan of a product, and dares to go against the narrative is now a "shill." Also: see definition of shill. I'm just a happy user that runs a startup, and my life is easier because of their existence.
zanellato19 1y ago
"Monopolies aren't so bad, the company is treating me quite well" is not a good counter argument.
- wallawe 1y ago
  do you consider Vercel a monopoly?

iammrpayments 1y ago

They made it possible for Rich Harris to get paid while working on Svelte. Not sure what will happen in the future though.

nonethewiser 1y ago

Jest is the most popular JS testing framework. It's wildly inaccurate to say it was killed.

azangru 1y ago
Looks to me it will be dead soon if they don't figure out how to handle ESM imports. More and more libraries stop packaging commonjs for their new versions. I've been bitten first by d3, then by graphql-request (now graffle), then by msw, then by faker-js. Faker-js, for god's sake! They write in their docs that since version 10, they are incompatible with Jest [0]. Jest seems to be going the way of Enzyme and dodo. The maintainer of MSW has been screaming for years for people to drop jest [1] [0] - https://github.com/faker-js/faker/blob/428ff3328b4c4b13ec29d646eea7c4ea98522323/docs/guide/upgrading.md?plain=1#L50 https://github.com/faker-js/faker/blob/428ff3328b4c4b13ec29d... [1] - https://x.com/kettanaito/status/1746165619731382351#m https://x.com/kettanaito/status/1746165619731382351#m
- sunaookami 1y ago
  Man we have started with Jest tests for our React Native App half a year ago and now we should already drop it? What should we use instead?? Vitest? How's the compatibility? I'm so exhausted man, glad I'm qutting JS dev soon hopefully.
  - azangru 1y ago
    Vitest, yes. Compatibility with jest is great. The ultimate win, of course, would be to use the native Node test runner. See the sourse of the Node.js website - I think they have pulled it off despite running a Node.js app.
    - isaachinman 1y ago
      Problem with vitest is that there's no first class caching if I recall correctly
gettingoverit 1y ago

pverheggen 1y ago

Vercel is already heavily involved, take a look at the core team: https://react.dev/community/team https://react.dev/community/team This announcement mentions they are separating business and technical governance, I suspect they are trying to limit Vercel's influence, and prevent them from taking it in a direction that only benefits them.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

mdhb 1y ago

It’s time to start moving away from React in general. I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would intentionally pick it in 2025 unless there were serious constraints that forced them to.

port11 1y ago
Being generally employable and paying your bills? I don't like Angular one iota but I'd assume people who still choose it have legit reasons. What do you think we should all be using?
- mdhb 1y ago
  After doing this for so many years now and one thing I’ve really come to see as a fairly fundamental truth at this point is that the more you can align with the underlying platform you’re working with generally the better. And so in that sense, the answer is web components. I know everyone hates the API but it was intentionally designed to be a low level thing to build a developer experience on top of and the best implementation of that right now is Lit. It’s also a pleasure to use and incredibly lightweight and designed to become even more lightweight overtime as new capabilities come to the web like signals in JavaScript or talk of native templating etc. There is another option that I really like for certain kinds of applications which is Flutter which might sound contradictory to my original point because it skips the idea of the DOM entirely and brings its own rendering engine to a canvas element. But it’s set to be the first serious Wasm and WebGPU based UI library on the web and has no problems spitting out 120fps (this is before even they have actually added WebGPU support and their newest rendering engine to the mix by the way) while keeping its rendering engine to I think about 1.5-2mb in size. It also gets you a single codebase that will run literally anywhere as an AOT compiled app. That’s to say nothing of Dart itself which I cannot even begin to describe what a huge improvement it is over JavaScript and Typescript. If you haven’t tried it yet, do yourself a favour. I’m just making the point that JavaScript and the DOM are no longer the only players in town and when you’re not trying to mix abstractions of a document markup language and an application a whole lot of problems just disappear like does this look different in different browsers or can I use this new feature etc.. it just works… everywhere… on the web.. on a desktop.. on a phone or an IoT device.