5 ms·

After seeing all the comments here I'm a bit relieved. I don't care about the CEO's political stance, but Vercel's involvement with React has rubbed me the wro

by kaoD 1y ago

After seeing all the comments here I'm a bit relieved. I don't care about the CEO's political stance, but Vercel's involvement with React has rubbed me the wrong way since the start of development of RSC. The development was basically behind half-closed doors, pretty much tied to Next.js (i.e. Vercel) and with zero specs except a high level description of what they were and their public API. I don't care that they were WIP: the community should've been involved, not Vercel as a benevolent dictator guiding their design from start to almost finish. Such a huge paradigm shift shouldn't have been dictated by any particular entity... and IMO much less Next's team which I think are prone to overengineering and bad decisions. IIRC there were points in time (maybe even currently?) where you had to use packages that were published to NPM but not even on any public repo. I love the idea of RSC but that's where my love ends. I thought I was alone on this.

k__ 1y ago
[flagged]
- thrance 1y ago
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  - staticelf 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - thrance 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - christophilus 1y ago
        [flagged]
        lukan 1y ago
        "No basis in reality" Do you really believe, he believes starving in Gaza is not real? With all the top tier access to information he has in his position?
        thrance 1y ago
        I think you're being way too charitable with Vercel's CEO. I don't doubt he came up with some way to justify to himself that what Israel is doing is completely necessary and reasonable. But I doubt you can get access to a press conference with Benyamin Netanyahu, then get close enough to shake his hand and take a selfie, then post the photo on social media with a tagline of the likes of "eternal glory to Israel" while having no idea of what is actually happening there. Either he's really that clueless about the world (in which case, how can he be CEO?), or he knows about the genocide and fully supports it.
      - subsupsubsup 1y ago
        [dead]
    - uhgseyjnn 1y ago
      [flagged]
    - mexicocitinluez 1y ago
      > For me, Vercels CEO statements made me realize I am ditching Deno Deploy for Vercel. Finally some tech ceo with good values Hands down one of the cringiest things I've ever read on this site. And it's why people don't take HN seriously. It's filled with a bunch of 13 year-old "edgy" narcissists who can't code.
      - alternatex 1y ago
        Wait till you read their opinion on DOGE.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - staticelf 1y ago
        "Ok dude". Weird that I have been 13 for over 20 years by now and I guess I haven't learned to code while working for as programmer for more than 15 years. I must be the best con artist in the world since I've been getting a paycheck for all this time.
    - phgn 1y ago
      > Are you suggesting that vercels CEO is to be compared with Adolf Hitler No, Netanyahu. Who Vercel's CEO recently posted for a selfie with on X, wishing "greatness for Israel" without mentioning the genocide being committed by that person right now.
      - staticelf 1y ago
        Except that the genocide part is basically bullshit. That could be the reason why he is not mentioning it.
        phgn 1y ago
        Please read through the legal definition of a genocide, and then tell me that that's not what's happening right now: https://www.un.org/en/genocide-prevention/definition https://www.un.org/en/genocide-prevention/definition https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-strip-un-commission-finds https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-c...
  - whizzter 1y ago
    If it's protecting something then yeah it stinks. In this case people are critical of other things also and want to voice those things for selfish reasons without getting into mud slinging contests with fanatics who are protecting everything shitty just because it's their favourite hater that is on one side. Perfect is the enemy of good and an ally of fanaticism.
- password54321 1y ago
  Increasingly bloated and complicated frameworks with intangible benefits used for webpages that are now just training data for LLMs is much more important.
  - ToucanLoucan 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - radlad 1y ago
      Usually that's indicative of an ad blocker firing in my experience.
      - ToucanLoucan 1y ago
        I mean if it was the ad-blocker, I don't see how a refresh would fix that? But I'm not terribly knowledgeable here so feel free to correct me.
        radlad 1y ago
        Ah you hadn't mentioned a refresh fixed it. That sure sounds like some kind of race in the JS.
        ToucanLoucan 1y ago
        Very fair! I only came back to edit it because right after leaving that comment I went to see if Best Buy had something I needed locally, clicked into search, typed, hit enter, and it fucking broke. Seemingly entirely, even the search button didn't work, so cmd+a, cmd+c, cmd+r, click in again, paste, enter, and that worked. I just fucking loathe how common this experience is now. Amazon seems to be the only one that doesn't do it, but I've experienced this exact issue on Best Buy, Target, Etsy, Mercari, ebay, and it just DRIVES ME UP THE WALL.
mexicocitinluez 1y ago
[flagged]
- seandoe 1y ago
  I think OP means "regardless of the CEO's political stance." And yes, your comment does sound self-righteous.
  - anthonylevine 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - davidmurdoch 1y ago
      Commenters here are experts in react and have interests in technology, or are looking to understand more about these topics. No one reading here is an expert on geopolitical issues. You're just connecting on the wrong post, and probably the wrong website, if you want to talk about these things. There are places for that, but it's not here this comment section and if you keep trying to make it that you're just going to get down voted over and over.
      - anthonylevine 1y ago
        If this was an article on linting, I'd agree. But who has become the defacto steward of React over the last 5 years? Vercel. Whose CEO has made a lot of news recently for their political views? Guillermo What front-end framework library now needs to distance itself from Vercel as it's main steward? React. IT'S ALL POLITICS. That's the entire point of the foundation. That's what this whole discussion is about.
      - Orygin 1y ago
        > No one reading here is an expert on geopolitical issues. You're just connecting on the wrong post, and probably the wrong website, if you want to talk about these things I don't know, I see a lot of posts and threads here of people discussing geo-political issues. Not just for the sake of it of course, but because politics is everywhere and affects everything, because technology is always going to have some form of politics attached, and because everyone is a political actor in their lives. Separating fully any technology news and political happenstance is impossible. Now of course it doesn't mean every topic should devolve into identity politics, but having discussion about how and why things are they way they are is inherently political.
synergy20 1y ago
i left for vue one year ago, life is much simpler and productive
- seanclayton 1y ago
  Same, but I am pretty much sold on Svelte after getting a new job using svelte (Shipping react in production since 2014).
  - carlgreene 1y ago
    Ditto...Svelte is such a joy to work with
    - DonHopkins 1y ago
      And not merely by contrast with the fact that React is such a depressing drag to work with -- Svelte is independently joyful and refreshing, in an of itself! The "oh thank God I'm not using React" feeling is just a bonus.
tracker1 1y ago
I like React a lot... but tbf, I never really quite agreed with the RSC push in general. I think most web-based apps are fine with client-render against an API/GraphQL/WebSocket backend. RSC is just a few steps too far in both Pure-Fucking-Magic (PFM) and rigidity in approach. If there was a component library as complete as MUI for Yew/Dioxus/Leptos I'd have likely already switched to Rust/WASM.
- kaoD 1y ago
  Personally I really wanted RSC because I have a DIY SSG based on React. It's dead simple but only supports static components. Something like RSC would allow me to automatically cook a bundle with only the interactive parts (think e.g. a custom dropdown or whatever) while still remaining fully static. Now I'm not so sure given how they're developing... [0] https://github.com/alvaro-cuesta/alvaro.cuesta.dev/tree/master/xenon-ssg https://github.com/alvaro-cuesta/alvaro.cuesta.dev/tree/mast...
  - BoorishBears 1y ago
    RSC should never have made client support opt-in. During RFC it was identified as a problem, but Shopify and Vercel pushed for an intentional breakage "for the greater good" in driving adoption. (conveniently ignoring that they're likely two of the only platforms that will ever want to take on the complexity of a non-toy RSC deployments)

by kaoD 1y ago

k__ 1y ago

[flagged]

thrance 1y ago
[flagged]
- staticelf 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - thrance 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - christophilus 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - lukan 1y ago
        "No basis in reality" Do you really believe, he believes starving in Gaza is not real? With all the top tier access to information he has in his position?
      - thrance 1y ago
        I think you're being way too charitable with Vercel's CEO. I don't doubt he came up with some way to justify to himself that what Israel is doing is completely necessary and reasonable. But I doubt you can get access to a press conference with Benyamin Netanyahu, then get close enough to shake his hand and take a selfie, then post the photo on social media with a tagline of the likes of "eternal glory to Israel" while having no idea of what is actually happening there. Either he's really that clueless about the world (in which case, how can he be CEO?), or he knows about the genocide and fully supports it.
    - subsupsubsup 1y ago
      [dead]
  - uhgseyjnn 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - mexicocitinluez 1y ago
    > For me, Vercels CEO statements made me realize I am ditching Deno Deploy for Vercel. Finally some tech ceo with good values Hands down one of the cringiest things I've ever read on this site. And it's why people don't take HN seriously. It's filled with a bunch of 13 year-old "edgy" narcissists who can't code.
    - alternatex 1y ago
      Wait till you read their opinion on DOGE.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
    - staticelf 1y ago
      "Ok dude". Weird that I have been 13 for over 20 years by now and I guess I haven't learned to code while working for as programmer for more than 15 years. I must be the best con artist in the world since I've been getting a paycheck for all this time.
  - phgn 1y ago
    > Are you suggesting that vercels CEO is to be compared with Adolf Hitler No, Netanyahu. Who Vercel's CEO recently posted for a selfie with on X, wishing "greatness for Israel" without mentioning the genocide being committed by that person right now.
    - staticelf 1y ago
      Except that the genocide part is basically bullshit. That could be the reason why he is not mentioning it.
      - phgn 1y ago
        Please read through the legal definition of a genocide, and then tell me that that's not what's happening right now: https://www.un.org/en/genocide-prevention/definition https://www.un.org/en/genocide-prevention/definition https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-strip-un-commission-finds https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-c...
- whizzter 1y ago
  If it's protecting something then yeah it stinks. In this case people are critical of other things also and want to voice those things for selfish reasons without getting into mud slinging contests with fanatics who are protecting everything shitty just because it's their favourite hater that is on one side. Perfect is the enemy of good and an ally of fanaticism.
password54321 1y ago
Increasingly bloated and complicated frameworks with intangible benefits used for webpages that are now just training data for LLMs is much more important.
- ToucanLoucan 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - radlad 1y ago
    Usually that's indicative of an ad blocker firing in my experience.
    - ToucanLoucan 1y ago
      I mean if it was the ad-blocker, I don't see how a refresh would fix that? But I'm not terribly knowledgeable here so feel free to correct me.
      - radlad 1y ago
        Ah you hadn't mentioned a refresh fixed it. That sure sounds like some kind of race in the JS.
        ToucanLoucan 1y ago
        Very fair! I only came back to edit it because right after leaving that comment I went to see if Best Buy had something I needed locally, clicked into search, typed, hit enter, and it fucking broke. Seemingly entirely, even the search button didn't work, so cmd+a, cmd+c, cmd+r, click in again, paste, enter, and that worked. I just fucking loathe how common this experience is now. Amazon seems to be the only one that doesn't do it, but I've experienced this exact issue on Best Buy, Target, Etsy, Mercari, ebay, and it just DRIVES ME UP THE WALL.

mexicocitinluez 1y ago

[flagged]

seandoe 1y ago
I think OP means "regardless of the CEO's political stance." And yes, your comment does sound self-righteous.
- anthonylevine 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - davidmurdoch 1y ago
    Commenters here are experts in react and have interests in technology, or are looking to understand more about these topics. No one reading here is an expert on geopolitical issues. You're just connecting on the wrong post, and probably the wrong website, if you want to talk about these things. There are places for that, but it's not here this comment section and if you keep trying to make it that you're just going to get down voted over and over.
    - anthonylevine 1y ago
      If this was an article on linting, I'd agree. But who has become the defacto steward of React over the last 5 years? Vercel. Whose CEO has made a lot of news recently for their political views? Guillermo What front-end framework library now needs to distance itself from Vercel as it's main steward? React. IT'S ALL POLITICS. That's the entire point of the foundation. That's what this whole discussion is about.
    - Orygin 1y ago
      > No one reading here is an expert on geopolitical issues. You're just connecting on the wrong post, and probably the wrong website, if you want to talk about these things I don't know, I see a lot of posts and threads here of people discussing geo-political issues. Not just for the sake of it of course, but because politics is everywhere and affects everything, because technology is always going to have some form of politics attached, and because everyone is a political actor in their lives. Separating fully any technology news and political happenstance is impossible. Now of course it doesn't mean every topic should devolve into identity politics, but having discussion about how and why things are they way they are is inherently political.

synergy20 1y ago

i left for vue one year ago, life is much simpler and productive

seanclayton 1y ago
Same, but I am pretty much sold on Svelte after getting a new job using svelte (Shipping react in production since 2014).
- carlgreene 1y ago
  Ditto...Svelte is such a joy to work with
  - DonHopkins 1y ago
    And not merely by contrast with the fact that React is such a depressing drag to work with -- Svelte is independently joyful and refreshing, in an of itself! The "oh thank God I'm not using React" feeling is just a bonus.

tracker1 1y ago

I like React a lot... but tbf, I never really quite agreed with the RSC push in general. I think most web-based apps are fine with client-render against an API/GraphQL/WebSocket backend. RSC is just a few steps too far in both Pure-Fucking-Magic (PFM) and rigidity in approach. If there was a component library as complete as MUI for Yew/Dioxus/Leptos I'd have likely already switched to Rust/WASM.

kaoD 1y ago
Personally I really wanted RSC because I have a DIY SSG based on React. It's dead simple but only supports static components. Something like RSC would allow me to automatically cook a bundle with only the interactive parts (think e.g. a custom dropdown or whatever) while still remaining fully static. Now I'm not so sure given how they're developing... [0] https://github.com/alvaro-cuesta/alvaro.cuesta.dev/tree/master/xenon-ssg https://github.com/alvaro-cuesta/alvaro.cuesta.dev/tree/mast...
- BoorishBears 1y ago
  RSC should never have made client support opt-in. During RFC it was identified as a problem, but Shopify and Vercel pushed for an intentional breakage "for the greater good" in driving adoption. (conveniently ignoring that they're likely two of the only platforms that will ever want to take on the complexity of a non-toy RSC deployments)