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If you cannot learn C++, you are either plain old stupid or you don't belong in programming. C++ is very easy, the syntax is picked up in a week, and you can wo

by point 18y ago

If you cannot learn C++, you are either plain old stupid or you don't belong in programming. C++ is very easy, the syntax is picked up in a week, and you can work without any libraries, you mostly just need to learn the API of the host system. If you can program in Ruby, you are capable enough to program in C++, and the only thing stopping you is just this 'myth' that C++ is hard.

lliiffee 18y ago
Most C++ haters (e.g. me) can program in C++ and probably even do program in it sometimes, but just don't like to. I can certainly do anything in C++ I could do in any other language, just with a hell of a lot more cursing and kicking things.
- kingkongrevenge 18y ago
  C++ has many flaws. Let's have a C++ bashing party, hooray. However, a discussion of the merits of C++ boils down to C++ vs C as far as getting things done in the real world and in the domains where C++ and C are applicable. C is absolutely horrible. I cannot imagine why anyone would start a new program or module to a higher level language in C rather than C++. It's like choosing BASIC over a modern scripting language.
  - ii 18y ago
    why anyone would start a new program or module to a higher level language in C rather than C++ Linus gives very good reasons for C vs. C++ here: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/57643/focus=57918 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/57643... I personally don't have anything against C++, it is a perfect solution for some problems, but sometimes C may be a better choice.
    - kingkongrevenge 18y ago
      This is a silly rant. All he really says is that too many C++ programmers have bad taste, in his opinion. C++ is objectively a far more powerful and expressive language than C.
      - lliiffee 18y ago
        I largely agree with you. If I "hate" C++ so much, why do I program in it? The answer is that sometimes I need my code to be very fast, and C++ has language features making abstraction easier than C or Fortran. I think the main reason people choose C instead of C++ is that it is common to overuse C++'s language features, and if you target C, this is impossible. Otherwise, just take "new" and "delete" and write the rest of your program in C...
- point 18y ago
  This does not mean that C++ is difficult. It just means that you may be used to easier languages, and your brain is not flexible enough to deal with C++.
  - jfarmer 18y ago
    Better question: why would anyone use a "harder" language, all else being equal?
    - hairsupply 18y ago
      Entrenchment. The main product I work on is 3.5 million lines of C++, built with MCF and ATL. We can frankestein other technologies into there, but its expensive and clunky. The cost of rewriting the whole thing is prohibitive, so C++ it is.
andreyf 18y ago
C++ is very easy, the syntax is picked up in a week, and you can work without any libraries, you mostly just need to learn the API of the host system. You don't know C++.
- point 18y ago
  What's the hard part of the syntax compared to a language like ruby? Interfaces? Classes? Inheritance? Templates? Exceptions? Ruby has equivalent interface elements, and there is not much of a difference in difficulty level between learning the one or the other. I learnt C++ in 2 weeks 7 years ago, and it was easy. The difficulty comes with learning to use the libraries and host APIs, but that is exactly the same for every other language I've learnt since then.
  - ramchip 18y ago
    I've seen several 'hard' engineers (physicists with Matlab experience) learn C++ in a couple of weeks. It's doable but... as you might expect, the code they pump out is terrible. There's a huge difference between doing basic C++ and being productive and efficient in it.
  - hairsupply 18y ago
    Things Ruby isn't concerned with that people typically have problems with in C++: - No compiling or linking phase in Ruby. Linking problems can be hairy in large systems. - Header file hell - The static keyword (there are four different contexts) - Difference between a pointer and reference - public, private, protected inheritance - Differences between dispatch (and underlying impl) of virtual and nonvirtual methods - method hiding - diamond of death - visibility vs accessibility - casting idioms (static, dynamic, const, reinterpret) - ugly libraries (STL, ATL, MFC, COM) yeah, i said STL is ugly. - templates (Ruby doesn't need templates since everything is dynamic) - No language level string data type (our product has at least six representations of strings here and there that need to be converted at the bit level).
- TooMuchNick 18y ago
  In college, where I majored in English, I thought I'd have an adventure and take a class in programming. They taught us C++. I never tried programming again. Say I was foolish enough to try again on my own. Say I wanted to write my own version of Writeroom: http://www.hogbaysoftware.com/products/writeroom http://www.hogbaysoftware.com/products/writeroom What language would I want to learn, and is there a good beginner's guide?

by point 18y ago

lliiffee 18y ago

Most C++ haters (e.g. me) can program in C++ and probably even do program in it sometimes, but just don't like to. I can certainly do anything in C++ I could do in any other language, just with a hell of a lot more cursing and kicking things.

kingkongrevenge 18y ago
C++ has many flaws. Let's have a C++ bashing party, hooray. However, a discussion of the merits of C++ boils down to C++ vs C as far as getting things done in the real world and in the domains where C++ and C are applicable. C is absolutely horrible. I cannot imagine why anyone would start a new program or module to a higher level language in C rather than C++. It's like choosing BASIC over a modern scripting language.
- ii 18y ago
  why anyone would start a new program or module to a higher level language in C rather than C++ Linus gives very good reasons for C vs. C++ here: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/57643/focus=57918 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/57643... I personally don't have anything against C++, it is a perfect solution for some problems, but sometimes C may be a better choice.
  - kingkongrevenge 18y ago
    This is a silly rant. All he really says is that too many C++ programmers have bad taste, in his opinion. C++ is objectively a far more powerful and expressive language than C.
    - lliiffee 18y ago
      I largely agree with you. If I "hate" C++ so much, why do I program in it? The answer is that sometimes I need my code to be very fast, and C++ has language features making abstraction easier than C or Fortran. I think the main reason people choose C instead of C++ is that it is common to overuse C++'s language features, and if you target C, this is impossible. Otherwise, just take "new" and "delete" and write the rest of your program in C...
point 18y ago
This does not mean that C++ is difficult. It just means that you may be used to easier languages, and your brain is not flexible enough to deal with C++.
- jfarmer 18y ago
  Better question: why would anyone use a "harder" language, all else being equal?
  - hairsupply 18y ago
    Entrenchment. The main product I work on is 3.5 million lines of C++, built with MCF and ATL. We can frankestein other technologies into there, but its expensive and clunky. The cost of rewriting the whole thing is prohibitive, so C++ it is.

andreyf 18y ago

C++ is very easy, the syntax is picked up in a week, and you can work without any libraries, you mostly just need to learn the API of the host system. You don't know C++.

point 18y ago
What's the hard part of the syntax compared to a language like ruby? Interfaces? Classes? Inheritance? Templates? Exceptions? Ruby has equivalent interface elements, and there is not much of a difference in difficulty level between learning the one or the other. I learnt C++ in 2 weeks 7 years ago, and it was easy. The difficulty comes with learning to use the libraries and host APIs, but that is exactly the same for every other language I've learnt since then.
- ramchip 18y ago
  I've seen several 'hard' engineers (physicists with Matlab experience) learn C++ in a couple of weeks. It's doable but... as you might expect, the code they pump out is terrible. There's a huge difference between doing basic C++ and being productive and efficient in it.
- hairsupply 18y ago
  Things Ruby isn't concerned with that people typically have problems with in C++: - No compiling or linking phase in Ruby. Linking problems can be hairy in large systems. - Header file hell - The static keyword (there are four different contexts) - Difference between a pointer and reference - public, private, protected inheritance - Differences between dispatch (and underlying impl) of virtual and nonvirtual methods - method hiding - diamond of death - visibility vs accessibility - casting idioms (static, dynamic, const, reinterpret) - ugly libraries (STL, ATL, MFC, COM) yeah, i said STL is ugly. - templates (Ruby doesn't need templates since everything is dynamic) - No language level string data type (our product has at least six representations of strings here and there that need to be converted at the bit level).
TooMuchNick 18y ago
In college, where I majored in English, I thought I'd have an adventure and take a class in programming. They taught us C++. I never tried programming again. Say I was foolish enough to try again on my own. Say I wanted to write my own version of Writeroom: http://www.hogbaysoftware.com/products/writeroom http://www.hogbaysoftware.com/products/writeroom What language would I want to learn, and is there a good beginner's guide?