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> The McDonald’s-backed company Plexure sells surveillance data on you to vendors, who use it to raise the price of items when they think you’ll pay more. Fina

> The McDonald’s-backed company Plexure sells surveillance data on you to vendors, who use it to raise the price of items when they think you’ll pay more. Finally I understand why when the McDonalds app was introduced it asked for permission to access my contacts. Of course I refused and deleted the app immediately. But to this day whenever I go to the McDonalds drive-thru the first question they ask is "Are you using the app today?" McDonalds seems to care so much about their app that I wonder if selling personal information makes them more money than selling hamburgers.

lupusreal 1y ago
It sure seems like whenever a corporation grows old, large or expansive enough, it will inevitably morph into an spy agency. Even what is obstensibly a burger flipping business wants to spy on people. Earlier this week I was in a regional gas station getting lunch, they've got maybe 30 or so locations scattered around this part of the state, and watched them tell an old man that he couldn't get a loyalty card from them anymore because they only do apps now. "But I don't have a cellphone" - "Uhhh... You can also do it online?"
- baggachipz 1y ago
  > Even what is obstensibly a burger flipping business Technically, McDonald's is a real estate company[1] who wants to spy on people, but that doesn't make it any less egregious. [1] https://www.wallstreetsurvivor.com/mcdonalds-beyond-the-burger/ https://www.wallstreetsurvivor.com/mcdonalds-beyond-the-burg...
  - xg15 1y ago
    Isn't that technically true for all franchises? If every restaurant is its own small/medium business and the corporate franchisor only ever interacts with the franchisees and never with the end customers, then all the direct revenue for the franchisor will be from services or licenses provided to the franchisees, not from directly selling burgers. But the franchisees are still much more dependent on the franchisor than they would be in a normal B2B relationship. And many of those "service costs" can be freely set by the franchisor and have the purpose of channeling revenue back from the restaurants - revenue that would not exist if no burgers were sold.
    - dreamcompiler 1y ago
      No. The specific point here is that the McDonald's Corporation is often the landlord of its franchisees. Of course most franchisees of any franchisor are required to buy supplies etc from the franchisor, but McDonald's is famous for also charging them rent.
- supportengineer 1y ago
  McDonalds is a real estate business. I recommend you check out the 2016 movie "The Founder" which is the story of Ray Kroc. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Founder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Founder
  - jvanderbot 1y ago
    While very interesting and a great movie, maybe can you explain how it's pertinent to this conversation?
    - supportengineer 1y ago
      >> "Even what is obstensibly a burger flipping business"
      - jvanderbot 1y ago
        > ostensibly probably implied they knew.
  - the_sleaze_ 1y ago
    > McDonalds is a real estate business. In the same way that American Airlines is a credit card company. How much rent will they receive if they stopped selling burgers? > The Founder" Good movie but McDonalds is a long long way away from scrappy, morally-bankrupt Ray Kroc's time. I imagine using pink slime to make the nuggets he sold to kids would be right in his wheelhouse though.
    - walkabout 1y ago
      > In the same way that American Airlines is a credit card company. I thought the "they're not what you think" deal with airlines is that they're actually futures trading companies that happen to own and operate some aircraft?
    - dreamcompiler 1y ago
      American Airlines is more a credit card company than McDonalds is a real estate company. If McDonald's stopped collecting rent from its franchisees, there would probably be layoffs at corporate but the general public would still be able to buy Big Macs. If American Airlines' credit card revenues dried up they wouldn't be able to pay their fuel bills and the company would be gone the next day.
- adolph 1y ago
  > a burger flipping business wants to spy on people "It started at a Burger-G restaurant in Cary, NC on May 17." For example, the Manna software in each store knew about employee performance in microscopic detail — how often the employee was on time or early, how quickly the employee did tasks, how quickly the employee answered the phone and responded to email, how the customers rated the employee and so on. When an employee left a store and tried to get a new job somewhere else, any other Manna system could request the employee’s performance record. If an employee had “issues” — late, slow, disorganized, unkempt — it became nearly impossible for that employee to get another job. https://marshallbrain.com/manna2 https://marshallbrain.com/manna2
AmbroseBierce 1y ago
One good response to that question is "I don't and I never will, sorry", some people think you can only vote with your wallet but that's not true, they really don't like the hostile atmosphere such kind of answers give, so if it became a common answer I bet they would stop asking so directly.
- mothballed 1y ago
  It's usually asked by AI, at least at Taco Bell. There is no human that will feel the hostility.
  - b112 1y ago
    Are you saying AI takes your order at Taco Bell drive through? If so, good thing to avoid.
    - bitwize 1y ago
      It did but I think they're rolling that back now.
    - znort_ 1y ago
      like a glance at the menu wasn't enough ... btw, i just now did glance at the menu online, i had no idea that this crap i wouldn't dare to call food (unless i were starving) is currently selling in spain. this is a tiny bit depressing but was actually to be expected, and i stand by my statement :-)
    - mothballed 1y ago
      No, just to ask you if you're using the app. After you say no a human comes on the intercom. The human doesn't have to suffer the abuse of asking about the app, wouldn't surprise me if part of that is because it's set lots of people in a rage so they let them just vent to a computer. I have no idea what happens if you order through the app, maybe in that case it's 100% AI.
      - 1y ago
gruez 1y ago
>Finally I understand why when the McDonalds app was introduced it asked for permission to access my contacts Maybe it did at some point but it's not in the list of permissions on Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mcdonalds.mobileapp https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mcdonalds....
- worik 1y ago
  "Financial information " is on the list... ...I am thinking that does not include payslips....
  - gruez 1y ago
    Where do you see "financial information"? It's not on the permissions list
    - aembleton 1y ago
      Its under data shared: https://play.google.com/store/apps/datasafety?id=com.mcdonalds.mobileapp https://play.google.com/store/apps/datasafety?id=com.mcdonal...
      - gruez 1y ago
        In that case it's obviously payment info since you can order through the app.
- dreamcompiler 1y ago
  Interesting. But emails is still there. Wonder what that means.
rolph 1y ago
careful ! https://survivalfreedom.com/how-much-does-it-cost-mcdonalds-to-make-a-big-mac/ https://survivalfreedom.com/how-much-does-it-cost-mcdonalds-... [2023] https://hpshplaidline.org/2024/02/08/breaking-down-the-cost-of-each-part-of-a-mcdonalds-burger-will-surprise-you/ https://hpshplaidline.org/2024/02/08/breaking-down-the-cost-... [2024]
skeeter2020 1y ago
>> I wonder if selling personal information makes them more money than selling hamburgers. Historically it's been a real estate company due to the vast portfoloio and usually prime locations. Not sure if this is still the case.
1vuio0pswjnm7 1y ago
It can be interesting to look at all the servers these apps try to reach after being installed Unless one is using something like GrapheneOS, Android/iOS "app permissions" do not meaningfully impede data collection As long as apps can connect to the internet, data can be collected. By design Android/iOS does not enable users to deny internet access to specific apps. That design is not a coincidence
- grues-dinner 1y ago
  > By design Android/iOS does not enable users to deny internet access to specific apps. It does seem like the number one permission you might wish to choose not to grant, doesn't it? In a privacy-first design there could also be an API for an encrypted channel that the user has access to, rather than allowing the device to send mysterious black-box data from your device on your behalf in the background whenever it wants. Though I suppose it would just turn into base64 "plaintext" payloads quickly and become normalised rather than a neon sign of fuckery afoot.
- lreeves 1y ago
  On iOS you can deny an app cellular data access which accomplishes this, as long as you don't launch it on Wifi. But yes I too wish I could deny apps internet access completely.
  - 1vuio0pswjnm7 1y ago
    "... as long as you don't launch it on WiFi." Unfortunately, apps can still connect even when they are not "launched" There are ways to deny apps internet access completely. But this is not something that is provided by Apple or Google
- realo 1y ago
  It would be cool to have some form of filtering vpn to do just that and easy to deploy on a personal vm provider. Maybe I should ask Claude Code to kludge together something.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 1y ago
walkabout 1y ago
They also punish you by charging wildly higher prices without the app. You have to use the app just to get prices around what they "should" be, compared with the pre-app era and adjusting for the broader inflation rate. Like clearly they're OK with forcing a choice between "use the app" and "never eat McDonalds again", because that's effectively what they're doing, and they have to know it.
- soupfordummies 1y ago
  I always hear this but I've never found this. The couple of times a year I eat McDonald's I check and it's the same. There are specific deals they'll have in the app like "2 filet of fish for $7 instead of $4 each" or something but by and large the prices are the same.
  - ibfreeekout 1y ago
    I don't know for sure but it may be regional. In my area, they always have a $5 off $20 deal that makes things slightly more palatable but even still, it's just bringing the prices back to what they really should be as others have said. I've uninstalled the app and completely stop going there entirely, the quality (not that it was ever great to be clear) is pretty terrible and there are so many better local places with way better value.
  - ikr678 1y ago
    If you are in the 'couple of times a year' consumer type bucket you might not be valuable enough to do the deep discounting to. They offer the better deals to the 'couple of times a month' or more frequent users to keep them hooked.
- OkayPhysicist 1y ago
  There's also the price discrimination angle of it. McDonald's has at least two sizeable groups of customers: people who frequently eat there, and are thus a change in the McDonald's pricing is significant in their total budget, and people who will occasionally eat there. Presumably, some analyst at McDonald's found that the latter group wasn't particularly price sensitive, so they found a way to divide the two groups, and charge them different prices. The occasional McDonald's customer isn't going to jump through hoops, they just want to roll up, get their burger, and leave. The frequent customer is more likely to respond to changes in pricing in both directions. Having a system to actively prompt the frequent consumers to go more often, and then charge them a price that they are willing to pay, while still getting the full benefit of the people who don't really care how much food costs is a win-win from their perspective. The surveillance is just a sweetener.
estimator7292 1y ago
At my local spot, they just shout "MOBILE APP?!" When you pull up. No other greeting. It's a truly lovely experience

lupusreal 1y ago

It sure seems like whenever a corporation grows old, large or expansive enough, it will inevitably morph into an spy agency. Even what is obstensibly a burger flipping business wants to spy on people. Earlier this week I was in a regional gas station getting lunch, they've got maybe 30 or so locations scattered around this part of the state, and watched them tell an old man that he couldn't get a loyalty card from them anymore because they only do apps now. "But I don't have a cellphone" - "Uhhh... You can also do it online?"

baggachipz 1y ago
> Even what is obstensibly a burger flipping business Technically, McDonald's is a real estate company[1] who wants to spy on people, but that doesn't make it any less egregious. [1] https://www.wallstreetsurvivor.com/mcdonalds-beyond-the-burger/ https://www.wallstreetsurvivor.com/mcdonalds-beyond-the-burg...
- xg15 1y ago
  Isn't that technically true for all franchises? If every restaurant is its own small/medium business and the corporate franchisor only ever interacts with the franchisees and never with the end customers, then all the direct revenue for the franchisor will be from services or licenses provided to the franchisees, not from directly selling burgers. But the franchisees are still much more dependent on the franchisor than they would be in a normal B2B relationship. And many of those "service costs" can be freely set by the franchisor and have the purpose of channeling revenue back from the restaurants - revenue that would not exist if no burgers were sold.
  - dreamcompiler 1y ago
    No. The specific point here is that the McDonald's Corporation is often the landlord of its franchisees. Of course most franchisees of any franchisor are required to buy supplies etc from the franchisor, but McDonald's is famous for also charging them rent.
supportengineer 1y ago
McDonalds is a real estate business. I recommend you check out the 2016 movie "The Founder" which is the story of Ray Kroc. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Founder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Founder
- jvanderbot 1y ago
  While very interesting and a great movie, maybe can you explain how it's pertinent to this conversation?
  - supportengineer 1y ago
    >> "Even what is obstensibly a burger flipping business"
    - jvanderbot 1y ago
      > ostensibly probably implied they knew.
- the_sleaze_ 1y ago
  > McDonalds is a real estate business. In the same way that American Airlines is a credit card company. How much rent will they receive if they stopped selling burgers? > The Founder" Good movie but McDonalds is a long long way away from scrappy, morally-bankrupt Ray Kroc's time. I imagine using pink slime to make the nuggets he sold to kids would be right in his wheelhouse though.
  - walkabout 1y ago
    > In the same way that American Airlines is a credit card company. I thought the "they're not what you think" deal with airlines is that they're actually futures trading companies that happen to own and operate some aircraft?
  - dreamcompiler 1y ago
    American Airlines is more a credit card company than McDonalds is a real estate company. If McDonald's stopped collecting rent from its franchisees, there would probably be layoffs at corporate but the general public would still be able to buy Big Macs. If American Airlines' credit card revenues dried up they wouldn't be able to pay their fuel bills and the company would be gone the next day.
adolph 1y ago
> a burger flipping business wants to spy on people "It started at a Burger-G restaurant in Cary, NC on May 17." For example, the Manna software in each store knew about employee performance in microscopic detail — how often the employee was on time or early, how quickly the employee did tasks, how quickly the employee answered the phone and responded to email, how the customers rated the employee and so on. When an employee left a store and tried to get a new job somewhere else, any other Manna system could request the employee’s performance record. If an employee had “issues” — late, slow, disorganized, unkempt — it became nearly impossible for that employee to get another job. https://marshallbrain.com/manna2 https://marshallbrain.com/manna2

AmbroseBierce 1y ago

One good response to that question is "I don't and I never will, sorry", some people think you can only vote with your wallet but that's not true, they really don't like the hostile atmosphere such kind of answers give, so if it became a common answer I bet they would stop asking so directly.

mothballed 1y ago
It's usually asked by AI, at least at Taco Bell. There is no human that will feel the hostility.
- b112 1y ago
  Are you saying AI takes your order at Taco Bell drive through? If so, good thing to avoid.
  - bitwize 1y ago
    It did but I think they're rolling that back now.
  - znort_ 1y ago
    like a glance at the menu wasn't enough ... btw, i just now did glance at the menu online, i had no idea that this crap i wouldn't dare to call food (unless i were starving) is currently selling in spain. this is a tiny bit depressing but was actually to be expected, and i stand by my statement :-)
  - mothballed 1y ago
    No, just to ask you if you're using the app. After you say no a human comes on the intercom. The human doesn't have to suffer the abuse of asking about the app, wouldn't surprise me if part of that is because it's set lots of people in a rage so they let them just vent to a computer. I have no idea what happens if you order through the app, maybe in that case it's 100% AI.
    - 1y ago

gruez 1y ago

>Finally I understand why when the McDonalds app was introduced it asked for permission to access my contacts Maybe it did at some point but it's not in the list of permissions on Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mcdonalds.mobileapp https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mcdonalds....

worik 1y ago
"Financial information " is on the list... ...I am thinking that does not include payslips....
- gruez 1y ago
  Where do you see "financial information"? It's not on the permissions list
  - aembleton 1y ago
    Its under data shared: https://play.google.com/store/apps/datasafety?id=com.mcdonalds.mobileapp https://play.google.com/store/apps/datasafety?id=com.mcdonal...
    - gruez 1y ago
      In that case it's obviously payment info since you can order through the app.
dreamcompiler 1y ago
Interesting. But emails is still there. Wonder what that means.

rolph 1y ago

careful ! https://survivalfreedom.com/how-much-does-it-cost-mcdonalds-to-make-a-big-mac/ https://survivalfreedom.com/how-much-does-it-cost-mcdonalds-... [2023] https://hpshplaidline.org/2024/02/08/breaking-down-the-cost-of-each-part-of-a-mcdonalds-burger-will-surprise-you/ https://hpshplaidline.org/2024/02/08/breaking-down-the-cost-... [2024]

skeeter2020 1y ago

>> I wonder if selling personal information makes them more money than selling hamburgers. Historically it's been a real estate company due to the vast portfoloio and usually prime locations. Not sure if this is still the case.

1vuio0pswjnm7 1y ago

It can be interesting to look at all the servers these apps try to reach after being installed Unless one is using something like GrapheneOS, Android/iOS "app permissions" do not meaningfully impede data collection As long as apps can connect to the internet, data can be collected. By design Android/iOS does not enable users to deny internet access to specific apps. That design is not a coincidence

grues-dinner 1y ago
> By design Android/iOS does not enable users to deny internet access to specific apps. It does seem like the number one permission you might wish to choose not to grant, doesn't it? In a privacy-first design there could also be an API for an encrypted channel that the user has access to, rather than allowing the device to send mysterious black-box data from your device on your behalf in the background whenever it wants. Though I suppose it would just turn into base64 "plaintext" payloads quickly and become normalised rather than a neon sign of fuckery afoot.
lreeves 1y ago
On iOS you can deny an app cellular data access which accomplishes this, as long as you don't launch it on Wifi. But yes I too wish I could deny apps internet access completely.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 1y ago
  "... as long as you don't launch it on WiFi." Unfortunately, apps can still connect even when they are not "launched" There are ways to deny apps internet access completely. But this is not something that is provided by Apple or Google
realo 1y ago
It would be cool to have some form of filtering vpn to do just that and easy to deploy on a personal vm provider. Maybe I should ask Claude Code to kludge together something.
1vuio0pswjnm7 1y ago

walkabout 1y ago

They also punish you by charging wildly higher prices without the app. You have to use the app just to get prices around what they "should" be, compared with the pre-app era and adjusting for the broader inflation rate. Like clearly they're OK with forcing a choice between "use the app" and "never eat McDonalds again", because that's effectively what they're doing, and they have to know it.

soupfordummies 1y ago
I always hear this but I've never found this. The couple of times a year I eat McDonald's I check and it's the same. There are specific deals they'll have in the app like "2 filet of fish for $7 instead of $4 each" or something but by and large the prices are the same.
- ibfreeekout 1y ago
  I don't know for sure but it may be regional. In my area, they always have a $5 off $20 deal that makes things slightly more palatable but even still, it's just bringing the prices back to what they really should be as others have said. I've uninstalled the app and completely stop going there entirely, the quality (not that it was ever great to be clear) is pretty terrible and there are so many better local places with way better value.
- ikr678 1y ago
  If you are in the 'couple of times a year' consumer type bucket you might not be valuable enough to do the deep discounting to. They offer the better deals to the 'couple of times a month' or more frequent users to keep them hooked.
OkayPhysicist 1y ago
There's also the price discrimination angle of it. McDonald's has at least two sizeable groups of customers: people who frequently eat there, and are thus a change in the McDonald's pricing is significant in their total budget, and people who will occasionally eat there. Presumably, some analyst at McDonald's found that the latter group wasn't particularly price sensitive, so they found a way to divide the two groups, and charge them different prices. The occasional McDonald's customer isn't going to jump through hoops, they just want to roll up, get their burger, and leave. The frequent customer is more likely to respond to changes in pricing in both directions. Having a system to actively prompt the frequent consumers to go more often, and then charge them a price that they are willing to pay, while still getting the full benefit of the people who don't really care how much food costs is a win-win from their perspective. The surveillance is just a sweetener.

estimator7292 1y ago

At my local spot, they just shout "MOBILE APP?!" When you pull up. No other greeting. It's a truly lovely experience