4 ms·

The Unofficial Jobs Numbers Are in and It's Rough Out There

codyklimdev 1y ago
https://archive.is/XOxSp https://archive.is/XOxSp
bayarearefugee 1y ago
But wait, I thought the big selling point for massive permanent tax cuts for the ultra wealthy in the "One Big Beautiful Bill" is that they would directly lead to jobs creation...? lol. lmao.
- BugsJustFindMe 1y ago
  It may feel cathartic to talk about hypocrisy and grift of right wing politics, but you should know that nobody responds to it. Saying "I told you so" doesn't work, even through snark. The people whom it would benefit you (and me, and mostly also them) to sway aren't swayed by it.
  - add-sub-mul-div 1y ago
    "Swaying" doesn't happen abruptly in response to any one post, good or bad. It's a process and it takes time. A critical mass of people in the middle have shown that they'll just get dragged by the Overton window wherever it goes. It does make a difference in the big picture whether bad policy is widely praised, mocked, or ignored.
    - BugsJustFindMe 1y ago
      It is a process, but this isn't an effective method. People have been mocking MAGA stuff since the beginning, the response from followers is universally one of either outright dismissal or just not caring. Look at where things are now. Look at how much the mocking has any beneficial effect at all on anything.
      - add-sub-mul-div 1y ago
        It's a passive process, there is no method. The zeitgeist is what it is. There's room for mockery, disgust, memes, cartoons, substantive analysis pieces, dispassionate think pieces. This is a comments section. Calling attention to emerging actual MAGA policy failure is not the same as calling attention to pussy-grabbing being poor character. Letting any of this become seen as normal/accepted is a non-starter. Even if things do continue to not change after this window of opportunity of bad results starting to emerge, there's room for things to get worse. Non-acceptance of his first term did result in his electoral loss.
  - mooglevich 1y ago
    What do you think a good faith person trying to persuade should do with this information? (Legit question, not trying to throw out a gotcha. I've been wracking my brain about this, since I spiritually agree w/ you that throwing zingers aren't gonna help us all get on the same page, but I've been at a loss as to how to actually discuss these topics with people that seemed to have been taken in by...whatever it is that's going on.)
    - BugsJustFindMe 1y ago
      You're probably not going to find this satisfying, but, online? For sure nothing. Even in person, I'm not sure that there really is a way to persuade someone to change their politics in the modern media landscape, even if you get a lot of time alone with them one on one in person and you do everything right, because of what we know about media inundation and how people begin from their gut feelings and then work backwards to retcon details that align with those feelings. You will have conversations where it seems like you've made some kind of progress, where it seems like you've earned some kind of credibility, where it seems like you've gained some kind of ground, and then the next day they will regress because the new thing they just saw will confirm their original vibes and the interpositions you created will be pushed out of mind and forgotten. And this will happen over and over because the world is psychotically overrun by messaging from media empires that make mindbogglingly large amounts of money from outright conning people. So, unless you have a few anti-billionaire billionaire friends thinking of starting media empires in your pocket, possibly the one thing you can do is run for local government.
      - cyanydeez 1y ago
        There are definitely right wing talking points being shrouded as centrist or other fascism. Like one thing that I see often are the "they deserve this right-wing grift". Like, there's a lot of people who quickly love to do victim blaming when there's now like one near left mainstream media (NBC) and the remainder are all some right wing grooming station. There's definitely a center that needs to be reminded that they're currently surrounded by right wing propaganda and they're all trying to move the overton window. You're right the far right is far gone, but the rest of civil society is still drifting, from apathy or misdirection or serious grift or be grifted realities.
  - tayo42 1y ago
    Why assume the poster is trying to change anyone's opinion? Maybe the point was to be cathartic.
    - prepend 1y ago
      I find catharsis is better in private. If GP’s point is to be cathartic, then do so on your own time, etc etc I kind of figured the point here was discussion, learning, development.
  - yifanl 1y ago
    Isn't it exhausting playing tone police all the time? Respond to the substance of the post or not at all.
    - BugsJustFindMe 1y ago
      Do you find it slightly ironic that here you are trying to police the way I engage? I do. > Respond to the substance of the post or not at all. You might find more success with your future interactions if you don't give commands that you have no authority to give.
- cyanydeez 1y ago
  You need to wait 6-12 months for the potential employees to be desperate enough to debase themselves for less money. That's what we learned in 2008's crash.
  - avrionov 1y ago
    The housing prices and the rents are extremely high right now. Everyone who bought in the last 3 years, doesn't have much room to work for a lower wages. In addition to that health care will become more expensive, the student loans will resume, etc, etc.
    - cyanydeez 1y ago
      I think you underestimate how wide the poverty gap is. There are still millions of people living comfortably.
silexia 1y ago
[flagged]
- FireBeyond 1y ago
  Thanks for contributing to the argument in a meaningful fashion.
- tomhow 1y ago
  Please don't post flamebait like this here. We've asked you before to avoid flamewar-style commenting on HN, and we need you, like everyone, to observe the guidelines and use the site in its intended spirit if you want to keep participating here. We have to ban accounts that continue to comment like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45520332 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45520332 and marked it off topic.
silexia 1y ago
Honest question: If you want environmental and labor regulations in America, how can you oppose tariffs? American businesses following those laws can't compete with countries using slave labor and toxic lakes of poison.
- BugsJustFindMe 1y ago
  > If you want environmental and labor regulations in America, how can you oppose tariffs? Environmental and labor regulations are not the same thing as domestic production. Plenty of domestic production uses slave labor and produces toxic lakes of poison. > Honest question It feels like a dishonest question given that we know the tariffs are coming from an administration trying to gut the Environmental Protection Agency and Department of Labor.
  - red-iron-pine 1y ago
    > Plenty of domestic production uses slave labor and produces toxic lakes of poison The US basically runs on illegal immigrant labor. That's why food is cheap, houses cheap, lots of other crappy services also cheap -- it's all a buncha Mexicans working under the table.
    - BugsJustFindMe 1y ago
      I was thinking more along the lines of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_Stat... but yes, illegal hiring too (the employers know exactly what they're doing).
- churchill 1y ago
  America's uncompetitiveness in certain industries isn't because of strong environmental and labor regulations. It's scale. That's why, despite working 996, Chinese software technology companies are still in (admittedly) second place compared to the US. Places like Silicon Valley, etc. have such a dense concentration of talent that if you want to build anything at the cutting edge, you need to pack up, leave your life behind and move over there. Likewise, this is why China dominates in hardware. You can walk into a random store in Shenzhen and pick out enough off-the-shelf parts to build a reasonably high-end smartphone. No one in the US or Europe will even talk to you if you're not ordering 10k MOQ. And that's if you can find a supplier. Scale is also the reason why China and South Korea build nuclear reactors at a fraction of Western prices. On budget too! Not because they carelessly expose everyone to toxic radiation. That's why China has 200* America's shipbuilding capacity. They build so much of it that they unlock economies of scale. It's the reason why China is churning out more PV systems and batteries than the rest of the world combined. They're building so much that their per unit costs fall tremendously. Then they parley those gains in one industry into adjacent industries like EVs where batteries are 40% of the cost. When you stack economies of scale back-to-back, you end up with an order of magnitude's difference. That's why high-end Chinese EVs cost, say <$20k, while American manufacturers are struggling.

https://archive.is/XOxSp https://archive.is/XOxSp

But wait, I thought the big selling point for massive permanent tax cuts for the ultra wealthy in the "One Big Beautiful Bill" is that they would directly lead to jobs creation...? lol. lmao.

BugsJustFindMe 1y ago
It may feel cathartic to talk about hypocrisy and grift of right wing politics, but you should know that nobody responds to it. Saying "I told you so" doesn't work, even through snark. The people whom it would benefit you (and me, and mostly also them) to sway aren't swayed by it.
- add-sub-mul-div 1y ago
  "Swaying" doesn't happen abruptly in response to any one post, good or bad. It's a process and it takes time. A critical mass of people in the middle have shown that they'll just get dragged by the Overton window wherever it goes. It does make a difference in the big picture whether bad policy is widely praised, mocked, or ignored.
  - BugsJustFindMe 1y ago
    It is a process, but this isn't an effective method. People have been mocking MAGA stuff since the beginning, the response from followers is universally one of either outright dismissal or just not caring. Look at where things are now. Look at how much the mocking has any beneficial effect at all on anything.
    - add-sub-mul-div 1y ago
      It's a passive process, there is no method. The zeitgeist is what it is. There's room for mockery, disgust, memes, cartoons, substantive analysis pieces, dispassionate think pieces. This is a comments section. Calling attention to emerging actual MAGA policy failure is not the same as calling attention to pussy-grabbing being poor character. Letting any of this become seen as normal/accepted is a non-starter. Even if things do continue to not change after this window of opportunity of bad results starting to emerge, there's room for things to get worse. Non-acceptance of his first term did result in his electoral loss.
- mooglevich 1y ago
  What do you think a good faith person trying to persuade should do with this information? (Legit question, not trying to throw out a gotcha. I've been wracking my brain about this, since I spiritually agree w/ you that throwing zingers aren't gonna help us all get on the same page, but I've been at a loss as to how to actually discuss these topics with people that seemed to have been taken in by...whatever it is that's going on.)
  - BugsJustFindMe 1y ago
    You're probably not going to find this satisfying, but, online? For sure nothing. Even in person, I'm not sure that there really is a way to persuade someone to change their politics in the modern media landscape, even if you get a lot of time alone with them one on one in person and you do everything right, because of what we know about media inundation and how people begin from their gut feelings and then work backwards to retcon details that align with those feelings. You will have conversations where it seems like you've made some kind of progress, where it seems like you've earned some kind of credibility, where it seems like you've gained some kind of ground, and then the next day they will regress because the new thing they just saw will confirm their original vibes and the interpositions you created will be pushed out of mind and forgotten. And this will happen over and over because the world is psychotically overrun by messaging from media empires that make mindbogglingly large amounts of money from outright conning people. So, unless you have a few anti-billionaire billionaire friends thinking of starting media empires in your pocket, possibly the one thing you can do is run for local government.
    - cyanydeez 1y ago
      There are definitely right wing talking points being shrouded as centrist or other fascism. Like one thing that I see often are the "they deserve this right-wing grift". Like, there's a lot of people who quickly love to do victim blaming when there's now like one near left mainstream media (NBC) and the remainder are all some right wing grooming station. There's definitely a center that needs to be reminded that they're currently surrounded by right wing propaganda and they're all trying to move the overton window. You're right the far right is far gone, but the rest of civil society is still drifting, from apathy or misdirection or serious grift or be grifted realities.
- tayo42 1y ago
  Why assume the poster is trying to change anyone's opinion? Maybe the point was to be cathartic.
  - prepend 1y ago
    I find catharsis is better in private. If GP’s point is to be cathartic, then do so on your own time, etc etc I kind of figured the point here was discussion, learning, development.
- yifanl 1y ago
  Isn't it exhausting playing tone police all the time? Respond to the substance of the post or not at all.
  - BugsJustFindMe 1y ago
    Do you find it slightly ironic that here you are trying to police the way I engage? I do. > Respond to the substance of the post or not at all. You might find more success with your future interactions if you don't give commands that you have no authority to give.
cyanydeez 1y ago
You need to wait 6-12 months for the potential employees to be desperate enough to debase themselves for less money. That's what we learned in 2008's crash.
- avrionov 1y ago
  The housing prices and the rents are extremely high right now. Everyone who bought in the last 3 years, doesn't have much room to work for a lower wages. In addition to that health care will become more expensive, the student loans will resume, etc, etc.
  - cyanydeez 1y ago
    I think you underestimate how wide the poverty gap is. There are still millions of people living comfortably.

silexia 1y ago

[flagged]

FireBeyond 1y ago
Thanks for contributing to the argument in a meaningful fashion.
tomhow 1y ago
Please don't post flamebait like this here. We've asked you before to avoid flamewar-style commenting on HN, and we need you, like everyone, to observe the guidelines and use the site in its intended spirit if you want to keep participating here. We have to ban accounts that continue to comment like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45520332 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45520332 and marked it off topic.

silexia 1y ago

Honest question: If you want environmental and labor regulations in America, how can you oppose tariffs? American businesses following those laws can't compete with countries using slave labor and toxic lakes of poison.

BugsJustFindMe 1y ago
> If you want environmental and labor regulations in America, how can you oppose tariffs? Environmental and labor regulations are not the same thing as domestic production. Plenty of domestic production uses slave labor and produces toxic lakes of poison. > Honest question It feels like a dishonest question given that we know the tariffs are coming from an administration trying to gut the Environmental Protection Agency and Department of Labor.
- red-iron-pine 1y ago
  > Plenty of domestic production uses slave labor and produces toxic lakes of poison The US basically runs on illegal immigrant labor. That's why food is cheap, houses cheap, lots of other crappy services also cheap -- it's all a buncha Mexicans working under the table.
  - BugsJustFindMe 1y ago
    I was thinking more along the lines of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_Stat... but yes, illegal hiring too (the employers know exactly what they're doing).
churchill 1y ago
America's uncompetitiveness in certain industries isn't because of strong environmental and labor regulations. It's scale. That's why, despite working 996, Chinese software technology companies are still in (admittedly) second place compared to the US. Places like Silicon Valley, etc. have such a dense concentration of talent that if you want to build anything at the cutting edge, you need to pack up, leave your life behind and move over there. Likewise, this is why China dominates in hardware. You can walk into a random store in Shenzhen and pick out enough off-the-shelf parts to build a reasonably high-end smartphone. No one in the US or Europe will even talk to you if you're not ordering 10k MOQ. And that's if you can find a supplier. Scale is also the reason why China and South Korea build nuclear reactors at a fraction of Western prices. On budget too! Not because they carelessly expose everyone to toxic radiation. That's why China has 200* America's shipbuilding capacity. They build so much of it that they unlock economies of scale. It's the reason why China is churning out more PV systems and batteries than the rest of the world combined. They're building so much that their per unit costs fall tremendously. Then they parley those gains in one industry into adjacent industries like EVs where batteries are 40% of the cost. When you stack economies of scale back-to-back, you end up with an order of magnitude's difference. That's why high-end Chinese EVs cost, say <$20k, while American manufacturers are struggling.