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Peter Hummelgaard, Danish Minister of Justice: "I indisputably believe that surveillance creates an increased sense of security ... and given that the prerequis

Peter Hummelgaard, Danish Minister of Justice: "I indisputably believe that surveillance creates an increased sense of security ... and given that the prerequisite for freedom is security, yes, I believe that more surveillance equates to more freedom" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45473136 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45473136

Telaneo 1y ago
I'm sure the Stasi would very much agree with him. The fact that he's actually saying this is incredible, and not in a good way. I'd love to hear him explain the government exemptions in the bill with this in mind.
- nickslaughter02 1y ago
  Peter Hummelgaard, Danish Minister of Justice: "We must break with the totally erroneous perception that it is everyone's civil liberty to communicate on encrypted messaging services." https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/danish-justice-minister-we-must-break-perception-of-right-to-private-messaging/ar-AA1MA98T https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/danish-justice-min...
  - galangalalgol 1y ago
    Perhaps the EU should consider adding access to secure encrypted communication to the human intrinsic rights to prevent such things in the future. He seems to be motivated by increases in gang crime that he will get blamed for.
    - nickslaughter02 1y ago
      > He seems to be motivated by increases in gang crime that he will get blamed for ...which is the government's fault and they should be blamed.
  - Telaneo 1y ago
    I'd love to see this argument transfered to physical mail. Should it be illegal to send physical letters that are encrypted without also somehow providing the government with an unencrypted copy? If that somehow seams reasonable on its face to someone, then I don't know where to begin a reasonable discussion.
    - reginamary32 1y ago
      [dead]
    - rusk 1y ago
      The cops can intercept physical mail
      - mrandish 1y ago
        Yes, but that parallel example is not relevant here because modern online messaging is profoundly different in crucial ways. Governments can (and do) intercept and store nearly all electronic messages which permits instant searching and deep cross-referencing of all content and sender/receiver metadata for every message ever sent by anyone, anywhere, at any time. None of which is true for physical mail. If you don't find that terrifying, you don't fully understand what it means. When they do intercept physical mail messages, if the sender has encoded the message, in most democracies, the government is not permitted to compel the sender to decode the message. And even if you come under suspicion today and they start intercepting your physical mail, they can't have an LLM read ALL the physical letters you've ever sent at the press of a key. With electronic communications they don't even need suspicion first. The LLMs are already actively searching everything hunting for anything the government labels sufficiently "suspicious." The "Five Eyes" intelligence agencies have been capturing all email, instant messages and phone call metadata for more than 15 years already.
      - wkat4242 1y ago
        Yes but it too can be encrypted
      - sib 1y ago
        >> Should it be illegal to send physical letters that are encrypted without also somehow providing the government with an unencrypted copy? > The cops can intercept physical mail You didn't answer the question...
  - ekianjo 1y ago
    I'd love to have access to his private email then. Please lead by example, Peter!
- tokai 1y ago
  He has no good explanations or arguments. He was beaten as a child by his father and now he is reproducing the abuse of power he experienced on all of us. I'm not even trying to be snarky, it's the only framing that can explain his behavior.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
tgv 1y ago
It's not even the fact that that belief is unfounded, but that he's actually equating a sense of security with security itself that makes that statement a bold yet easily overlooked lie. That he calls himself a social-democrat!
- galangalalgol 1y ago
  Wouldn't that party lean more towards early identification and rehabilitation of potential predators with therapy etc.?
  - powerhouse007 1y ago
    Sexual orientation cannot be changed as far as science knows.
    - galangalalgol 1y ago
      I was thinking about cognitive therapy to decrease the likelihood they would harm people as a result of the proclivities they cannot change. Some people have a natural urge to murder people all the time, if they learn to control it there is no reason they cannot contribute to society.
      - WastedCucumber 1y ago
        There's a program in Germany related to this, called Kein Täter Werden (to not become an abuser / don't become an absuer). I think it's controversial because the therapy is confidential, even if the participants have committed abuse.
      - powerhouse007 1y ago
        Honest but hard question: do you believe evolution applies to humans. I am worried what happens when those people who would otherwise be in prison instead have children and those children don't get this kind of therapy.
g-b-r 1y ago
This guy is insane
palmotea 1y ago
> Peter Hummelgaard, Danish Minister of Justice: "I indisputably believe that surveillance creates an increased sense of security ... and given that the prerequisite for freedom is security, yes, I believe that more surveillance equates to more freedom" I mean, he's kinda right. It just depends on if you feel you're a target or not. If you're not the target, you feel an increased sense of security from any threat caused by the people who are the target. A really obvious example is a dictator like Kim Jong Un: there's a huge amount of surveillance in North Korea, but all of it serves him and none of it threatens him. So, especially someone kind of unthoughtful and ignorant of the complexities might feel "an increased sense of security" from this surveillance, because they know they're not a pedophile so assume surveillance purportedly targeted at pedophiles will do them no harm. You might even feel "more freedom" to the degree you feel pedophiles are a threat to you or your family.
- 20after4 1y ago
  It's not freedom if it's only afforded to a privileged few at the expense of everyone else. And no oppression is ever truly limited to the intended targets only. It'll always be abused and applied beyond the original or stated intent.
einarfd 1y ago
The quotes I've been seeing from him, makes him sound like a cartoon villain, I'm hoping for his sake he is misquoted.
ekianjo 1y ago
He probably also believes that war equates to more peace.
clarionbell 1y ago
Sounds like believer in managed democracy.

Telaneo 1y ago

I'm sure the Stasi would very much agree with him. The fact that he's actually saying this is incredible, and not in a good way. I'd love to hear him explain the government exemptions in the bill with this in mind.

nickslaughter02 1y ago
Peter Hummelgaard, Danish Minister of Justice: "We must break with the totally erroneous perception that it is everyone's civil liberty to communicate on encrypted messaging services." https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/danish-justice-minister-we-must-break-perception-of-right-to-private-messaging/ar-AA1MA98T https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/danish-justice-min...
- galangalalgol 1y ago
  Perhaps the EU should consider adding access to secure encrypted communication to the human intrinsic rights to prevent such things in the future. He seems to be motivated by increases in gang crime that he will get blamed for.
  - nickslaughter02 1y ago
    > He seems to be motivated by increases in gang crime that he will get blamed for ...which is the government's fault and they should be blamed.
- Telaneo 1y ago
  I'd love to see this argument transfered to physical mail. Should it be illegal to send physical letters that are encrypted without also somehow providing the government with an unencrypted copy? If that somehow seams reasonable on its face to someone, then I don't know where to begin a reasonable discussion.
  - reginamary32 1y ago
    [dead]
  - rusk 1y ago
    The cops can intercept physical mail
    - mrandish 1y ago
      Yes, but that parallel example is not relevant here because modern online messaging is profoundly different in crucial ways. Governments can (and do) intercept and store nearly all electronic messages which permits instant searching and deep cross-referencing of all content and sender/receiver metadata for every message ever sent by anyone, anywhere, at any time. None of which is true for physical mail. If you don't find that terrifying, you don't fully understand what it means. When they do intercept physical mail messages, if the sender has encoded the message, in most democracies, the government is not permitted to compel the sender to decode the message. And even if you come under suspicion today and they start intercepting your physical mail, they can't have an LLM read ALL the physical letters you've ever sent at the press of a key. With electronic communications they don't even need suspicion first. The LLMs are already actively searching everything hunting for anything the government labels sufficiently "suspicious." The "Five Eyes" intelligence agencies have been capturing all email, instant messages and phone call metadata for more than 15 years already.
    - wkat4242 1y ago
      Yes but it too can be encrypted
    - sib 1y ago
      >> Should it be illegal to send physical letters that are encrypted without also somehow providing the government with an unencrypted copy? > The cops can intercept physical mail You didn't answer the question...
- ekianjo 1y ago
  I'd love to have access to his private email then. Please lead by example, Peter!
tokai 1y ago
He has no good explanations or arguments. He was beaten as a child by his father and now he is reproducing the abuse of power he experienced on all of us. I'm not even trying to be snarky, it's the only framing that can explain his behavior.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

tgv 1y ago

It's not even the fact that that belief is unfounded, but that he's actually equating a sense of security with security itself that makes that statement a bold yet easily overlooked lie. That he calls himself a social-democrat!

galangalalgol 1y ago
Wouldn't that party lean more towards early identification and rehabilitation of potential predators with therapy etc.?
- powerhouse007 1y ago
  Sexual orientation cannot be changed as far as science knows.
  - galangalalgol 1y ago
    I was thinking about cognitive therapy to decrease the likelihood they would harm people as a result of the proclivities they cannot change. Some people have a natural urge to murder people all the time, if they learn to control it there is no reason they cannot contribute to society.
    - WastedCucumber 1y ago
      There's a program in Germany related to this, called Kein Täter Werden (to not become an abuser / don't become an absuer). I think it's controversial because the therapy is confidential, even if the participants have committed abuse.
    - powerhouse007 1y ago
      Honest but hard question: do you believe evolution applies to humans. I am worried what happens when those people who would otherwise be in prison instead have children and those children don't get this kind of therapy.

g-b-r 1y ago

This guy is insane

palmotea 1y ago

> Peter Hummelgaard, Danish Minister of Justice: "I indisputably believe that surveillance creates an increased sense of security ... and given that the prerequisite for freedom is security, yes, I believe that more surveillance equates to more freedom" I mean, he's kinda right. It just depends on if you feel you're a target or not. If you're not the target, you feel an increased sense of security from any threat caused by the people who are the target. A really obvious example is a dictator like Kim Jong Un: there's a huge amount of surveillance in North Korea, but all of it serves him and none of it threatens him. So, especially someone kind of unthoughtful and ignorant of the complexities might feel "an increased sense of security" from this surveillance, because they know they're not a pedophile so assume surveillance purportedly targeted at pedophiles will do them no harm. You might even feel "more freedom" to the degree you feel pedophiles are a threat to you or your family.

20after4 1y ago
It's not freedom if it's only afforded to a privileged few at the expense of everyone else. And no oppression is ever truly limited to the intended targets only. It'll always be abused and applied beyond the original or stated intent.

einarfd 1y ago

The quotes I've been seeing from him, makes him sound like a cartoon villain, I'm hoping for his sake he is misquoted.

ekianjo 1y ago

He probably also believes that war equates to more peace.

clarionbell 1y ago

Sounds like believer in managed democracy.