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If you find the OP interesting, you might find Project Kamp more interesting: https://projectkamp.com/mission.html https://projectkamp.com/mission.html The OP

If you find the OP interesting, you might find Project Kamp more interesting: https://projectkamp.com/mission.html https://projectkamp.com/mission.html The OP seems like the academic approach to what project kamp is learning by doing: They're attempting to build a community that's eventually completely self sufficient on a fairly limited land space, and documenting the whole process.

drooby 1y ago
I like Project Kamp and have been following them for years. However, I feel they’re moving quite slowly and often making mistakes on problems that have already been solved. For example, it took them a while to figure out their composting toilet, and even now it’s not a great solution. They tend to have what are essentially interns do a bit of “research” and then piece together a solution. That said, I do applaud their efforts. It’s very entertaining to watch, and they seem to be hiring people lately who are more knowledgeable in their fields. So, I very much appreciate this open-source-ecology “academic approach.”
- cbdevidal 1y ago
  I’ve been following Open Source Ecology for years and they too are moving quite slowly. One part of the website points to a 2014 presentation. I’ve seen very little progress in the last ten years. Sad, because it’s a great idea.
- buovjaga 1y ago
  That's more or less the critique OSE got back in 2013. Ie. if you're going to raise money, why not hire professional designers?
- Cthulhu_ 1y ago
  I wonder if they try to reinvent the wheel on purpose (the "first principles" thing people on HN often mention). Using off-the-shelf products can feel like cheating if your objective is to protest society / capitalism.
vasco 1y ago
Efficiency I get, self sufficiency I don't get. Self sufficiency is net terrible as impact to the globe. It's obvious that specialization+trade gives us much more efficiency, be it in raw material usage, power usage, you name it, to create whatever product. Even space usage requirements balloon if everyone wants to be self sufficient. If people want to optimize for self sufficiency they will need to hoard more stuff, they will need to produce and duplicate a lot, use more land and for sure they won't have any good stuff like doctors with a surgery room.
- lukan 1y ago
  "and for sure they won't have any good stuff like doctors with a surgery room." Depends how big the project/village is. Also the basic idea is to be as self sufficient as possible. Not as a dogma. And the benefit once it runs is, you don't have to go make war around the globe, because your economy is threatened. You can just stay at home minding your own buisness.
  - vasco 1y ago
    Isolationism doesn’t work as a policy, that is proven by history. Or if it works it needs some radically different ideas. The aspect about ignoring defense is also naive, what happens when your neighbours that do have a military decide your land and self sufficiency are something they want? The best thing to prevent that, and the first step, is to have established trade with them, which in your plan you don't want or need. Also you will breed a population of "nationalists" (at whatever size this is applied to) after a few generations if nobody is involved in trade.
    - lukan 1y ago
      "Isolationism doesn’t work as a policy, that is proven by history." Of course it does. Many remote mountain villages preserved their culture this way. "Also you will breed a population of "nationalists" " I think you have never been to such a self sustainable project? They are usually living a culture of internationalists and there are frequent guests from all around the world. What you means are cults. They also exist, true. But those operating in the open are mostly .. open. Also the basic idea is to establish a network of trading and sharing in general. Specialisation is useful after all. But for the basic needs, I like the idea to be independent here. And yes, ideally also have a competent doctor you can just wake up from next door in the middle of the night in a case of emergency and not hope a ambulance is avaiable in time.
aa-jv 1y ago
Project Kamp would definitely benefit from opening up a new workshop on site with the sole purpose of building some of the Open Source Ecology tooling .. it'd help them immensely with tractor scams and .. especially of course .. defeating the neverending onslaught of Spikey Booshes ..

drooby 1y ago

I like Project Kamp and have been following them for years. However, I feel they’re moving quite slowly and often making mistakes on problems that have already been solved. For example, it took them a while to figure out their composting toilet, and even now it’s not a great solution. They tend to have what are essentially interns do a bit of “research” and then piece together a solution. That said, I do applaud their efforts. It’s very entertaining to watch, and they seem to be hiring people lately who are more knowledgeable in their fields. So, I very much appreciate this open-source-ecology “academic approach.”

cbdevidal 1y ago
I’ve been following Open Source Ecology for years and they too are moving quite slowly. One part of the website points to a 2014 presentation. I’ve seen very little progress in the last ten years. Sad, because it’s a great idea.
buovjaga 1y ago
That's more or less the critique OSE got back in 2013. Ie. if you're going to raise money, why not hire professional designers?
Cthulhu_ 1y ago
I wonder if they try to reinvent the wheel on purpose (the "first principles" thing people on HN often mention). Using off-the-shelf products can feel like cheating if your objective is to protest society / capitalism.

vasco 1y ago

Efficiency I get, self sufficiency I don't get. Self sufficiency is net terrible as impact to the globe. It's obvious that specialization+trade gives us much more efficiency, be it in raw material usage, power usage, you name it, to create whatever product. Even space usage requirements balloon if everyone wants to be self sufficient. If people want to optimize for self sufficiency they will need to hoard more stuff, they will need to produce and duplicate a lot, use more land and for sure they won't have any good stuff like doctors with a surgery room.

lukan 1y ago
"and for sure they won't have any good stuff like doctors with a surgery room." Depends how big the project/village is. Also the basic idea is to be as self sufficient as possible. Not as a dogma. And the benefit once it runs is, you don't have to go make war around the globe, because your economy is threatened. You can just stay at home minding your own buisness.
- vasco 1y ago
  Isolationism doesn’t work as a policy, that is proven by history. Or if it works it needs some radically different ideas. The aspect about ignoring defense is also naive, what happens when your neighbours that do have a military decide your land and self sufficiency are something they want? The best thing to prevent that, and the first step, is to have established trade with them, which in your plan you don't want or need. Also you will breed a population of "nationalists" (at whatever size this is applied to) after a few generations if nobody is involved in trade.
  - lukan 1y ago
    "Isolationism doesn’t work as a policy, that is proven by history." Of course it does. Many remote mountain villages preserved their culture this way. "Also you will breed a population of "nationalists" " I think you have never been to such a self sustainable project? They are usually living a culture of internationalists and there are frequent guests from all around the world. What you means are cults. They also exist, true. But those operating in the open are mostly .. open. Also the basic idea is to establish a network of trading and sharing in general. Specialisation is useful after all. But for the basic needs, I like the idea to be independent here. And yes, ideally also have a competent doctor you can just wake up from next door in the middle of the night in a case of emergency and not hope a ambulance is avaiable in time.

aa-jv 1y ago

Project Kamp would definitely benefit from opening up a new workshop on site with the sole purpose of building some of the Open Source Ecology tooling .. it'd help them immensely with tractor scams and .. especially of course .. defeating the neverending onslaught of Spikey Booshes ..