4 ms·

We live in very confusing times. Democratic countries start acting more and more like big brother. Its also concerning to read the quote: “necessary to do so

We live in very confusing times. Democratic countries start acting more and more like big brother. Its also concerning to read the quote: “necessary to do so to secure the Canadian telecommunications system against any threat, including that of interference, manipulation, disruption or degradation.” Where Canadian telecommunication is almost a duopoly and had major outage a few years ago without any claims of bad actors.

walterbell 1y ago
> Canadian telecommunication is almost a duopoly Nortel, never forget
ipnon 1y ago
In China you expect this because you get 5% GDP growth every year, housing that actually gets more affordable, government-subsidized growth industries and jobs. In Canada you get all the totalitarianism with GDP growth less than inflation, skyrocketing housing, and a zip line directly from Waterloo to Market Street.
tdb7893 1y ago
So it has been on the upswing recently but my understanding is that in the US we have been doing pretty much as much surveillance as technology (and also generally the 4th amendment) practically allows since at least WWII, and especially during the Cold War. Many law abiding people opposed to government policy (e.g. civil rights leaders or anti-war activists) have always been surveilled with dubious cause. This isn't the best wiki article I've ever seen but it has some examples of the US surveillance over the last century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_the_Unite...
- trollbridge 1y ago
  The current “workaround” to the 4th amendment is to simply have private companies who do surveillance and then buy bulk data from them. ICE does this with location data from mobile apps. They simply buy from a private vendor the information about where specific people are. Then they go detain them. Some real life friends of mine are on a work crew with some migrants. ICE pulled their truck over, asked the migrants to identify themselves (with different names than they’d been using), they complied, and ICE drove off with them after detaining them. I asked “Did they have their mobile phones with them?” “Yes.” People literally are carrying around a tracking device, voluntarily, with apps installed on them, voluntarily, that report their location to government authorities who want to detain them.
  - ekianjo 1y ago
    If you are an illegal immigrat how do you even get a mobile phone contract though? In every country I know a valid ID is required to get one.
    - arthens 1y ago
      What's the connection between being an illegal immigrant and having a valid ID? In my experience as a traveller, any ID from any country is good enough to get a mobile contract. Some countries might check VISA status too, but any valid temporary VISA is generally enough.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
    - edflsafoiewq 1y ago
      I use an MVNO and I never needed any ID.
    - curtisf 1y ago
      The United States is a country that doesn't require any form of identification to have a phone number. You can buy a "burner phone" at any Walmart, with prepaid minutes and no contract, in cash.
    - heavyset_go 1y ago
      Walk into 7/11 and buy a prepaid SIM card
- johnnienaked 1y ago
  True but it's never been as overt
powerhouse007 1y ago
[flagged]
- honeycrispy 1y ago
  The US.
  - mindslight 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - potsandpans 1y ago
    Incorrect.
glitchc 1y ago
It always starts with the left, not the right. Read "The True Believer". It's not the poor folk that start a revolution. They are too busy trying to survive to do anything else. No, it's the idle bourgeois. They are the most unhappy as what they seek is just out of their reach.
- standardUser 1y ago
  A few fascist movements sprang out of leftist movements, or had some small overlap in rhetoric with the left, but by and large the most repressive Western governments have come firmly if not exclusively from the right.
  - hunterpayne 1y ago
    So sure, if you ignore all Communist countries and lump in Islamist countries with the western 'right' you can make that argument. Back on earth, its always the left that is motivated by ideology. The only right wing governments who turn authoritarian do so for money and power, not ideology. The ideology of the right (in the west) is specifically designed to be against that. That's why the biggest body counts always come from the left. At this point, Communism and all wars combined are running neck and neck for the cause of the most violent deaths. Somehow, you lefties always forget that.
    - SirSavary 1y ago
      1. When discussing "the most repressive Western governments", we exclude Communist and Islamist regimes by definition. The West refers to North America and Western Europe, where no Communist or Islamist government has held power. You can't reasonably claim the Western right is less authoritarian by pointing to non-Western examples. 2. The claim that "it's always the left that is motivated by ideology" ignores that right-wing movements are frequently driven by ideological commitments: religious conservatism, ethnonationalism, free-market fundamentalism, and so on. Authoritarian right-wing regimes often justify their actions through explicit ideological frameworks. 3. What mechanism in right-wing ideology "specifically designed to be against" authoritarianism are you referring to? Current consolidation of executive power in the US, rollbacks of institutional checks, and expanding surveillance capabilities suggest otherwise. If right-wing ideology inherently resists authoritarianism, how do you explain broad right-wing support for these trends? 4. Body counts correlate with state capacity and willingness to use violence, not economic system. Authoritarian regimes across the political spectrum have committed mass atrocities. Capitalist regimes have overseen famines (Bengal, Ireland) and genocides just as Communist ones have. The common factor is authoritarianism, not left vs. right.
isaacremuant 1y ago
It's not confusing at all. It's the same trend we've been having for ages and that most people have cheered for because they were usually dunking on their political rivals, the "evil enemy (TM)" or "protecting the children/against covid misinformation", etc. Only when people start recognising that was all bullshit and demand their freedom can we collectively fight back. Resist your impulses to go with the propaganda and call every dissenter a conspiracy theorist. Recognize authoritarianism is extremely common and it happens in "democratic" countries which are absolutely shielded in bureocracy.
- immibis 1y ago
  Good things are good and bad things are bad. It's not contradictory for someone to like a bill that says "if you try to convince the population vaccines are bad, your internet service should be terminated" and also dislike a bill that says "if we say so, your internet service should be terminated"

walterbell 1y ago

> Canadian telecommunication is almost a duopoly Nortel, never forget

ipnon 1y ago

In China you expect this because you get 5% GDP growth every year, housing that actually gets more affordable, government-subsidized growth industries and jobs. In Canada you get all the totalitarianism with GDP growth less than inflation, skyrocketing housing, and a zip line directly from Waterloo to Market Street.

tdb7893 1y ago

So it has been on the upswing recently but my understanding is that in the US we have been doing pretty much as much surveillance as technology (and also generally the 4th amendment) practically allows since at least WWII, and especially during the Cold War. Many law abiding people opposed to government policy (e.g. civil rights leaders or anti-war activists) have always been surveilled with dubious cause. This isn't the best wiki article I've ever seen but it has some examples of the US surveillance over the last century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_the_Unite...

trollbridge 1y ago
The current “workaround” to the 4th amendment is to simply have private companies who do surveillance and then buy bulk data from them. ICE does this with location data from mobile apps. They simply buy from a private vendor the information about where specific people are. Then they go detain them. Some real life friends of mine are on a work crew with some migrants. ICE pulled their truck over, asked the migrants to identify themselves (with different names than they’d been using), they complied, and ICE drove off with them after detaining them. I asked “Did they have their mobile phones with them?” “Yes.” People literally are carrying around a tracking device, voluntarily, with apps installed on them, voluntarily, that report their location to government authorities who want to detain them.
- ekianjo 1y ago
  If you are an illegal immigrat how do you even get a mobile phone contract though? In every country I know a valid ID is required to get one.
  - arthens 1y ago
    What's the connection between being an illegal immigrant and having a valid ID? In my experience as a traveller, any ID from any country is good enough to get a mobile contract. Some countries might check VISA status too, but any valid temporary VISA is generally enough.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
  - edflsafoiewq 1y ago
    I use an MVNO and I never needed any ID.
  - curtisf 1y ago
    The United States is a country that doesn't require any form of identification to have a phone number. You can buy a "burner phone" at any Walmart, with prepaid minutes and no contract, in cash.
  - heavyset_go 1y ago
    Walk into 7/11 and buy a prepaid SIM card
johnnienaked 1y ago
True but it's never been as overt

powerhouse007 1y ago

[flagged]

honeycrispy 1y ago
The US.
- mindslight 1y ago
  [flagged]
- potsandpans 1y ago
  Incorrect.

glitchc 1y ago

It always starts with the left, not the right. Read "The True Believer". It's not the poor folk that start a revolution. They are too busy trying to survive to do anything else. No, it's the idle bourgeois. They are the most unhappy as what they seek is just out of their reach.

standardUser 1y ago
A few fascist movements sprang out of leftist movements, or had some small overlap in rhetoric with the left, but by and large the most repressive Western governments have come firmly if not exclusively from the right.
- hunterpayne 1y ago
  So sure, if you ignore all Communist countries and lump in Islamist countries with the western 'right' you can make that argument. Back on earth, its always the left that is motivated by ideology. The only right wing governments who turn authoritarian do so for money and power, not ideology. The ideology of the right (in the west) is specifically designed to be against that. That's why the biggest body counts always come from the left. At this point, Communism and all wars combined are running neck and neck for the cause of the most violent deaths. Somehow, you lefties always forget that.
  - SirSavary 1y ago
    1. When discussing "the most repressive Western governments", we exclude Communist and Islamist regimes by definition. The West refers to North America and Western Europe, where no Communist or Islamist government has held power. You can't reasonably claim the Western right is less authoritarian by pointing to non-Western examples. 2. The claim that "it's always the left that is motivated by ideology" ignores that right-wing movements are frequently driven by ideological commitments: religious conservatism, ethnonationalism, free-market fundamentalism, and so on. Authoritarian right-wing regimes often justify their actions through explicit ideological frameworks. 3. What mechanism in right-wing ideology "specifically designed to be against" authoritarianism are you referring to? Current consolidation of executive power in the US, rollbacks of institutional checks, and expanding surveillance capabilities suggest otherwise. If right-wing ideology inherently resists authoritarianism, how do you explain broad right-wing support for these trends? 4. Body counts correlate with state capacity and willingness to use violence, not economic system. Authoritarian regimes across the political spectrum have committed mass atrocities. Capitalist regimes have overseen famines (Bengal, Ireland) and genocides just as Communist ones have. The common factor is authoritarianism, not left vs. right.

isaacremuant 1y ago

It's not confusing at all. It's the same trend we've been having for ages and that most people have cheered for because they were usually dunking on their political rivals, the "evil enemy (TM)" or "protecting the children/against covid misinformation", etc. Only when people start recognising that was all bullshit and demand their freedom can we collectively fight back. Resist your impulses to go with the propaganda and call every dissenter a conspiracy theorist. Recognize authoritarianism is extremely common and it happens in "democratic" countries which are absolutely shielded in bureocracy.

immibis 1y ago
Good things are good and bad things are bad. It's not contradictory for someone to like a bill that says "if you try to convince the population vaccines are bad, your internet service should be terminated" and also dislike a bill that says "if we say so, your internet service should be terminated"