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ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones
- leakycap 1y ago> the relationship between the agency and the company predates the Trump administration IMSI catchers/stingrays have been common practice in local law enforcement for decades, haven't they? How is this different? > Some cell-site simulators can also intercept regular calls, text messages, and internet traffic. In what decade was this true, other than text messages? I don't think it is very easy even for an IMSI catcher/stingray to eavesdrop on calls over LTE, for example.
- AfterHIA 1y ago[flagged]
- hedora 1y agoIt's different because ICE is a paramilitary group operating illegally inside the US. They don't get warrants, engage in racial profiling, disappeared 2/3rds of the people sent to some of their facilities, arrest citizens, assault peaceful protesters, etc. They're doing this over the objection of state and local authorities, and despite the fact that their actions have been repeatedly ruled illegal by the courts.
- psunavy03 1y agoA Federal government agency is "a paramilitary group operating illegally inside the US?" What? "I think they're being employed in a shitty and potentially illegal manner outside their remit" is a perfectly arguable take that doesn't require tinfoil-hattery.
- kokanee 1y agoYou might not like the tone, but I don't see what makes the words false. "Paramilitary" describes a non-military group behaving similarly to a military group, and we're talking about armed masked men sweeping homes, taking prisoners, and engaging in violent conflicts. "Operating illegally" means that federal, state, or local laws have been broken, and that seems to be the case, e.g. Gonzalez v. ICE.
- theultdev 1y agoFederal law supersedes state law. ICE is simply enforcing federal immigration laws.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> ICE is simply enforcing federal immigration laws “From January to June, the average number of detainees per day in ICE custody rose 43 percent, to more than 57,000. But since July, when the [OBBA] funding was approved, the detainee population has increased only about 5 percent, to roughly 60,000, the latest statistics show. The stream of social-media clips showing masked federal agents kicking down doors, raiding Home Depot parking lots, and pulling people from their car have kept up the appearance of an ever-expanding campaign. ICE’s own data show that the agency’s buildup stalled over the summer” [1]. Meanwhile, with first-year deportations around 400,000 [2], they stand to match what Obama did in 2012 [3], despite spending $40 to 70bn, or 10 to 15x, more [4][5]. Instead of enforcing our immigration laws, ICE is involved in domestic policing, partisan intimidation and the illegal detention of American citizens. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/10/ice-immigration-detention-centers/684465/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/10/ice-imm... [2] https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/09/23/new-milestone-over-2-million-illegal-aliens-out-united-states-less-250-days https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/09/23/new-milestone-over-2-mil... [3] https://docs.house.gov/meetings/GO/GO00/20200109/110349/HHRG-116-GO00-20200109-SD007.pdf https://docs.house.gov/meetings/GO/GO00/20200109/110349/HHRG... [4] https://www.ice.gov/factsheets/budget2012 https://www.ice.gov/factsheets/budget2012 $5.8bn, FY2012, $8.2bn CPI adjusted to ‘25 [5] https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ice-budget-big-beautiful-bill/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ice-budget-big-beautiful-b... $45 to 75 billion under OBBBA
- theultdev 1y agoDifference between deportations under Obama vs Trump is they aren't coming right back over. Easy to inflate deportations when you catch the same fish and the river is flowing. Much slower when you dam off the river and have to dig the remaining catfish out of the mud.
- asacrowflies 1y agoHow is what is supposed to be "law enforcement" repelling from helicopters to ziptie children and running over protesters with armored personnel carriers and receiving satellite and cellphone intelligence and coordinating with that national guard ....not "paramilitary"
- cosmicgadget 1y agoThey bring their own ill-fitting gear and jump out of U-hauls. Sure they have the occasional off-the-shelf imsi catcher. "Wannabe paramilitary", final offer.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> bring their own ill-fitting gear and jump out of U-hauls ICE ran a 5AM motorcade through my mountain town, compete with helicopter escort. We’re in a red state, though, and border a red farm state, so I understand they were actually told to knock it off. > "Wannabe paramilitary", final offer The only part of a definition [1] that ICE might fail is in whether they’re professionally designated to act as a secret police. If by wannabe you’re saying ICE intends to be and act like a paramilitary, you’ve effectively conceded the point. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramilitary https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramilitary
- cosmicgadget 1y agoLol what? "They want/intend to be a paramilitary organization therefore calling them wannabe paramilitaries isn't correct." Genuine curiosity, what did the motorcade look like? Gov plates or personal vehicles? Was the helicopter ICE or local police keeping an eye on things?
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> "They want/intend to be a paramilitary organization therefore calling them wannabe paramilitaries isn't correct." (I never said what you’re falsely quoting.) An armed civilian organisation that wants to be—and behaves like—the military has satisfied the most important (and usually difficult to prove) requirement of paramilitarism. The only remaining question, if we’ve established intent, is capability. They obviously have the manpower, budget and equipment to constitute a martial force. TL; DR If ICE is a “wannabe paramilitary,” they’re a paramilitary. If you’re giving that up you’re giving away the game. > Gov plates or personal vehicles? Civilian. (The relevant bit for whether a group is a paramilitary.) I’d note that whether ICE is a paramilitary is a red herring. Paramilitaries are fine. Militias as paramilitaries. The problem is ICE is acting as a secret state police. > local police keeping an eye on things? Not state or local.
- fzeroracer 1y agoIt doesn't require any tinfoil-hattery though because everything they're doing is very public. Like you look at their actions Chicago [1] and I think it's impossible to NOT think they're an illegal paramilitary group. They're rounding up, detaining and arresting US citizens and destroying their property under the guise of sweeping illegal immigrants. They've violated people's constitutional rights multiple times over. [1] https://chicago.suntimes.com/immigration/2025/10/01/massive-immigration-raid-on-chicago-apartment-building-leaves-residents-reeling-i-feel-defeated https://chicago.suntimes.com/immigration/2025/10/01/massive-...
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- gruez 1y ago>They're rounding up, detaining and arresting US citizens and destroying their property under the guise of sweeping illegal immigrants. What's the proportion of US citizens arrested compared to actual illegal immigrants?
- fzeroracer 1y agoI'm sorry, why does the proportion matter? What happened to the presumption of innocence? Are you saying you, personally, would be OK with being rounded up and arrested as long as they got X illegal immigrants along the way?
- coredog64 1y agoPresumption of innocence applies to your trial, not to being apprehended. E.g. the state has to prove that you are guilty. If I'm a US citizen and I get swept up in an immigration raid, my lawyer calls my wife who brings my US passport and I'm released. A pain in the ass, but not a violation of my civil rights. Now if I get beat up by ICE, or they file a false claim for resisting, then sure, we've got grounds for a case that my rights were violated. But constitutional rights are not a blanket "I can never be arrested if I think I'm innocent"
- cosmicgadget 1y agoIt is critical to understand that as a general rule, what they are doing is completely legal. We created the conditions for this to happen and are empowered to change it.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> as a general rule, what they are doing is completely legal In general, particularly in the past, yes. Currently, a statistically significant number of ICE agents are acting outside the colour of law, in some cases with possibly treasonous intent.
- cosmicgadget 1y agoHuh? They're either chasing down people with an administrative warrant (which as far as I can tell are largely valid) or they're using reasonable suspicion which SCOTUS just decided can be determined by a combination of ethnic, economic, and geographic factors. The latter seems wrongly-decided but it is lawful by definition. What actions are you referring to and what is the treasonous intent? They seem to just be self-selected xenophobes trying to chase bonus money.
- fzeroracer 1y agoThe SCOTUS abdicating their duty to the constitution does not make ICE's actions any less illegal, it just makes the Supreme Court as an institution illegitimate. It is unfortunate that things have devolved so far, but it is more important than ever that we state things clearly and succinctly in the face of those that have decided the constitution no longer matters.
- cortesoft 1y agoYou might believe SCOTUS has abdicated their duty, but that doesn’t make it illegal. The whole reason the Supreme Court exists is because there is no such thing as “clearly illegal” without some kind of adjudicating body that can decide if something breaks the law. Laws aren’t like math axioms; you can’t prove or disprove that a law has been broken with pure logic, you have to have humans interpret the words and apply it to a situation. By definition, the supreme courts decisions are the law, unless the legally prescribed measures to overrule them are taken.
- apparent 1y agoAre they arresting citizens whose behavior does not warrant arrest? I have read about several arrests, but the citizens were all interfering with lawful detentions that ICE was carrying out.
- actionfromafar 1y agoYep, the children were interfering, sleeping in their beds.
- apparent 1y agoCan you share links to this? Sounds awful. I have not heard of any children sleeping in beds being arrested by ICE, which would obviously be inappropriate/illegal.
- mmustapic 1y agohttps://chicago.suntimes.com/immigration/2025/10/01/massive-immigration-raid-on-chicago-apartment-building-leaves-residents-reeling-i-feel-defeated https://chicago.suntimes.com/immigration/2025/10/01/massive-...
- apparent 1y agoSorry, I don't see anything about citizens being arrested here. Is there any news coverage supporting the above claim that citizens are being arrested without cause (that is, not just for interfering with ICE?
- vuggamie 1y ago[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- softwaredoug 1y agoIf they act as MITM, they can intercept cell phone calls. Stingrays are somewhat it common practice. But they force every device to attach to look for the one they want. And its reasonable to feel queasy about that for any number of reasons.
- NoiseBert69 1y agoWhy aren't they using the official lawful interception interfaces? They will get all the data. Not only voice, data and SMS/RCS. All modern smartphones (like Pixels) allow you to switch off 2G. They even warn if you want to activate it.
- cosmicgadget 1y agoWho says they aren't?
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> Why aren't they using the official lawful interception interfaces? They may not want to leave a paper trail. “To obtain a [legal] wiretap order, law enforcement must demonstrate probable cause to a judge” [1]. Given ICE has been arresting Americans, they probably aren’t bothering with cause. Legal intercepts also require “minimization procedures to limit the interception of conversations unrelated to the investigation,” which ICE may not want to do. And perhaps most importantly, “violations of 18 U.S.C. § 2511 are considered federal felonies,” with those convicted facing criminal penalties and being subject to civil liability. I hate to make this analogy, but it’s akin to the Gestapo’s NBH obsession. They knew they were acting illegally, and didn’t want to leave the evidence that would convict them. [1] https://legalclarity.org/what-is-wiretapping-and-when-is-it-legal/ https://legalclarity.org/what-is-wiretapping-and-when-is-it-...
- nulbyte 1y agoBut, isn't intercepting communications using a fake cell tower a wiretap?
- selectodude 1y agoOf course it is. But good luck proving how they got the information.
- scaramanga 1y ago
- nickthegreek 1y agoanytime these type of stories come up, its helpful for someone to post about ieee's rayhunter opensource project. https://github.com/EFForg/rayhunter https://github.com/EFForg/rayhunter which pairs nicely with a https://www.amazon.com/Orbic-Verizon-Hotspot-Connect-Enabled/dp/B08N3CHC4Y https://www.amazon.com/Orbic-Verizon-Hotspot-Connect-Enabled...
- spoaceman7777 1y agoHmm, says it works with the Pinephone and Pinephone Pro too, which are very portable, and are just generally devices many more would consider useful (I've thought about buying one at least, just for the open-source-ness of it)
- auguzanellato 1y agoAnother nice tool is CellGuard https://cellguard.seemoo.de/ https://cellguard.seemoo.de/ It works on iOS devices without any extra hardware, even on non jailbroken devices, by analyzing baseband debug logs exported by the OS.
- nxobject 1y agoFor what it’s worth, the authors note that since this is installed on a phone, by the time CellGuard has detected a rogue base station, it’s too late anyway.
- jeroenhd 1y agoThese spying devices often do permit network traffic to flow through, so if deployed widely these apps could be used to report on where large-scale messing with cellular communications is taking place. The only way to stop this technology is to turn off your phone completely (and opt out of any low-power "find my" networks built into Android and iOS, of course).
- nickthegreek 1y agofaraday pouch for added peace of mind.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- HNrenewables 1y ago[dead]
- josefritzishere 1y ago1984
- potato3732842 1y agoWhy wouldn't they? There's been people complaining about fed cops having these tools and techniques for over a decade now.
- msie 1y agoI hear ICE's budget has grown to an absurd amount and they can operate through the shutdown.
- intermerda 1y agoTrump's bill allocated 170 billion dollars to ICE. That figure is greater than annual defense spending of every country in the world other than US and China. I believe it's spread over four years, so amortized over that time period it would have more budget than all but 12 countries in the world.
- Nervhq 1y ago[flagged]
- DaSHacka 1y ago[flagged]
- habinero 1y agoI'll just tell them you're here illegally, then. If they're not going to check, you're just as vulnerable as anyone else.
- thunderfork 1y ago"immigrate legally" is to ICE as "just don't do anything illegal" is to Chat Control, etc. Those who give up liberty for security...
- chneu 1y agoReminder that thousands of legal residents are also being swept up in this. Thats a feature, though, not a bug, for a dictator. Also ICE, I hear nervhq is here illegally. Someone wanna go do a check on this illegal? Assume they're breaking the law first, deport them and ask questions later. Thanks ICE! It's only a matter of time before ICE comes for you. You realize there are literal quotes from Germans saying they wish they would have spoken up earlier? But they didn't because they weren't a Jew. We're repeating such stupid mistakes because Trump and the GOP have made politics a sport/brand loyalty competition. It's pathetic
- tithos 1y ago[flagged]
- HaZeust 1y agome when I lie:
- godelski 1y agoIf you're running an Android phone open settings > Network & Internet > Internet > click on your network (e.g. Google Fi) > turn on 2G network protection (at the bottom). Alternatively: Security & privacy > Advanced Protection > Device protection. That does other stuff too though I'm not aware of a way to do this on iPhones... I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that many of these attacks work by performing 2G downgrading.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago> a way to do this on iPhones A quick search suggests Lockdown mode might do it, which is corroborated by their support docs. It also does a bunch of other things that will probably degrade most users' experience, for what it's worth. https://support.apple.com/en-us/105120 https://support.apple.com/en-us/105120 > Wireless connectivity: Your device won't automatically join non-secure Wi-Fi networks and will disconnect from a non-secure Wi-Fi network when you turn on Lockdown Mode. 2G and 3G cellular support is turned off for iPhone and iPad. (Instructions to enable it are on the linked page.)
- godelski 1y agoThanks! But also WTF Apple... I appreciate that this mode exists but each of those things should be allowed to be toggled independently. People need more fine grained experience. For things that I think will affect people more than the wireless connectivity Messages: Most message attachment types are blocked, other than certain images, video, and audio. Some features, such as links and link previews, are unavailable. FaceTime: Incoming FaceTime calls are blocked unless you have previously called that person or contact within the past 30 days. Features such as SharePlay and Live Photos are unavailable. I swear... Apple really does not want to make privacy and security convenient for users. It's as if (...) they want to provide the tools to say they have the best security but then make the UX so poor that no one will end up using them (and then they can justify not developing more because "nobody uses them")
- xvector 1y agoSecurity engineer here. Bundling these together actually makes sense. - Message attachments are blocked because Apple has not figured out to serialize and deserialize attachments without buffer overflows. Look at how many zero days are due to message attachments. It's pretty clownish tbh. - FaceTime is blocked because Apple has not figured out how to prevent an incoming FaceTime call from silently spying on you, which has already happened a couple times. Government interception of your cell connection falls into a similar category of threat, so it's bundled together.
- GaryBluto 1y ago[flagged]
- gdestus 1y agoLikely cataloging IMSIs and IMEIs which would not constitute a wiretap. I know from experience these circles are concerned about roving protestors and agitators. These sort of metrics can also be used with commercially available RTB data if and when cases go to court. I'm about 90% certain they ARE NOT intercepting phone calls and I'm 80% certain they're not intercepting sms
- scaramanga 1y agoyes, ICE strike me as deeply and sincerely concerned about both agitators and bringing robust cases to courts :)