4 ms·

Let me remind everyone this again. Democracy is not an autocracy with time limits and turns. It's not a system where you elect a few individuals and hand them t

by goku12 1y ago

Let me remind everyone this again. Democracy is not an autocracy with time limits and turns. It's not a system where you elect a few individuals and hand them the power to rule over you for a few years. They are supposed to be your representatives who raise your concerns and protect your interests in a forum that takes decisions that affect all of you. Legislation like these are the small steps that convert the latter into the former. Democracy is fragile. Just electing a candidate periodically is not enough. It depends on the constant effort, vigil and activism from the citizens to safeguard it. It wont survive your apathy. As idealistic as it sounds, this burden is the true cost of living in a democracy. This is a harsh lesson that's recorded in history again and again. Always take legislation like this seriously and hold your representatives responsible for it. Let them know that their political career in your constituency is finished for good if they support such moves. Let their political party know that they're not winning your constituency again until the damage is reversed. There's no room for subtleties and pleasantries when they're clearly showing you that they don't value your autonomy or the checks and balances on their abuse of power.

Atlas667 1y ago
[flagged]
- goku12 1y ago
  Is this about Canada or the US? Either way, you can either defend and demand for the democracy, or give up and stop claiming democracy altogether. This is a problem with democracies everywhere. I don't know about you, but I'm not too enthusiastic about a future that resembles the dark ages.
  - Atlas667 1y ago
    This applies to either. The democracy we need threatens those in power. What say does the average poor person in your town have? To endorse someone they cant control? To choose from amongst the few candidates that the big interests have developed and then cross their fingers?? Letting individuals control production creates a divided society, one of workers and one of owners. Where one has unequal leverage over the other but are supposed to (on paper) exist on the same democratic level. Mom and pop shops may come your mind, or someone who owns a franchise or small business, the truth is that even small business owners are nearly wholly beholden to large capital and huge finance capital. What say does a walmart employee have compared to the owners of walmart? While you were learning about what the hell the electoral college is, some others were being trained on how to lobby effectively. Mass democracy threatens the status quo almost entirely. There does not exist a party for the people. And if it were to exist it would be outlawed and threatened like they have been in the past. Would you suppress a peoples party if you had billions on the line?
- onetokeoverthe 1y ago
  [dead]
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  Anyway, the USA is a representative republic.
  - lisbbb 1y ago
    You can't look at California, New York, New Jersey, Maryland, Illinois, Oregon, Washington, Massachusetts--states who have these very long-term Democrat majorities, and tell me we have a representative anything! Those places will likely never turn back to any kind of balanced representative rule. They pass whatever the hell they want and the only pushback is through our Federal courts who often take years to produce meager relief. It's not "getting bad" it "is bad."
    - nbngeorcjhe 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - tomhow 1y ago
        > wtf are you talking about? those states have Dem majorities because that's what their populations want. moron Please don't comment like this on HN. The guidelines ask us to be kind and constructive when engaging in discussions here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: I didn't even notice until later, the final word of that comment. WTF indeed. This is absolutely not okay on HN, and we have to ban accounts that do it repeatedly.
        kimixa 1y ago
        It's also a failure state of real discussion to discount someone's voice simply because of perceived incivility. Or conversely, weigh someone's opinion higher simply because of phrasing rather than content.
        tomhow 1y ago
        The guidelines have been in place since soon after HN started, and have always been clear that kindness and curious conversation are what we're aiming for here. In the case of this comment "wtf are you talking about?" may be at the milder end of the spectrum of abuse, "moron" certainly isn't.
lisbbb 1y ago
That was a bold statement that the children on here will no doubt downvote into oblivion as will mine. I'm tired of having this same argument over and over--just having the ability to vote for draconian shit doesn't mean you get to lord over everyone else! The power mongers in control of most Western governments are insane lunatics who use fear against hapless, low-information fools. They seem hell bent on eliminating every single basic freedom we ever had? Why? I keep hearing "neo-feudalism" but that's just a label, it's not the why. Also, why not just eliminate voting completely? Well, I mean, it's nearly a formality in many places these days already, but they like that little semblance of false legitimacy, I guess.
tamimio 1y ago
Democracy is fake; it's the rule of whoever controls the money, influence, media, and pulls the proper manipulation tactics to manipulate the public through fears. It was funny watching the digital ID in the UK, how they were using "porn and kids" for the left-leaning crowds, and "immigrants" for the right-leaning ones, but ultimately the result of both is the same: more control, more surveillance, and decaying freedom.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
isaacremuant 1y ago
> Always take legislation like this seriously and hold your representatives responsible for it. Let them know that their political career in your constituency is finished for good if they support such moves But it isn't. I've gone the route of writing my representatives but when most people support the measures or at least don't oppose them they can easily laugh in your face or outright lie to you, claiming that protests aren't banned when they are (e.g. covid times) and things like that. Most people here probably called me some government/media pushed negative label just for protesting to uphold freedom/constitutional rights/human rights. It's not that easy to advocate effectively once you realize gov/media funded propaganda permeates really well.

by goku12 1y ago

Atlas667 1y ago

[flagged]

goku12 1y ago
Is this about Canada or the US? Either way, you can either defend and demand for the democracy, or give up and stop claiming democracy altogether. This is a problem with democracies everywhere. I don't know about you, but I'm not too enthusiastic about a future that resembles the dark ages.
- Atlas667 1y ago
  This applies to either. The democracy we need threatens those in power. What say does the average poor person in your town have? To endorse someone they cant control? To choose from amongst the few candidates that the big interests have developed and then cross their fingers?? Letting individuals control production creates a divided society, one of workers and one of owners. Where one has unequal leverage over the other but are supposed to (on paper) exist on the same democratic level. Mom and pop shops may come your mind, or someone who owns a franchise or small business, the truth is that even small business owners are nearly wholly beholden to large capital and huge finance capital. What say does a walmart employee have compared to the owners of walmart? While you were learning about what the hell the electoral college is, some others were being trained on how to lobby effectively. Mass democracy threatens the status quo almost entirely. There does not exist a party for the people. And if it were to exist it would be outlawed and threatened like they have been in the past. Would you suppress a peoples party if you had billions on the line?
onetokeoverthe 1y ago
[dead]
SoftTalker 1y ago
Anyway, the USA is a representative republic.
- lisbbb 1y ago
  You can't look at California, New York, New Jersey, Maryland, Illinois, Oregon, Washington, Massachusetts--states who have these very long-term Democrat majorities, and tell me we have a representative anything! Those places will likely never turn back to any kind of balanced representative rule. They pass whatever the hell they want and the only pushback is through our Federal courts who often take years to produce meager relief. It's not "getting bad" it "is bad."
  - nbngeorcjhe 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - tomhow 1y ago
      > wtf are you talking about? those states have Dem majorities because that's what their populations want. moron Please don't comment like this on HN. The guidelines ask us to be kind and constructive when engaging in discussions here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: I didn't even notice until later, the final word of that comment. WTF indeed. This is absolutely not okay on HN, and we have to ban accounts that do it repeatedly.
      - kimixa 1y ago
        It's also a failure state of real discussion to discount someone's voice simply because of perceived incivility. Or conversely, weigh someone's opinion higher simply because of phrasing rather than content.
        tomhow 1y ago
        The guidelines have been in place since soon after HN started, and have always been clear that kindness and curious conversation are what we're aiming for here. In the case of this comment "wtf are you talking about?" may be at the milder end of the spectrum of abuse, "moron" certainly isn't.

lisbbb 1y ago

That was a bold statement that the children on here will no doubt downvote into oblivion as will mine. I'm tired of having this same argument over and over--just having the ability to vote for draconian shit doesn't mean you get to lord over everyone else! The power mongers in control of most Western governments are insane lunatics who use fear against hapless, low-information fools. They seem hell bent on eliminating every single basic freedom we ever had? Why? I keep hearing "neo-feudalism" but that's just a label, it's not the why. Also, why not just eliminate voting completely? Well, I mean, it's nearly a formality in many places these days already, but they like that little semblance of false legitimacy, I guess.

tamimio 1y ago

Democracy is fake; it's the rule of whoever controls the money, influence, media, and pulls the proper manipulation tactics to manipulate the public through fears. It was funny watching the digital ID in the UK, how they were using "porn and kids" for the left-leaning crowds, and "immigrants" for the right-leaning ones, but ultimately the result of both is the same: more control, more surveillance, and decaying freedom.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

isaacremuant 1y ago

> Always take legislation like this seriously and hold your representatives responsible for it. Let them know that their political career in your constituency is finished for good if they support such moves But it isn't. I've gone the route of writing my representatives but when most people support the measures or at least don't oppose them they can easily laugh in your face or outright lie to you, claiming that protests aren't banned when they are (e.g. covid times) and things like that. Most people here probably called me some government/media pushed negative label just for protesting to uphold freedom/constitutional rights/human rights. It's not that easy to advocate effectively once you realize gov/media funded propaganda permeates really well.