8 ms·

Chess.com regional pricing: A case study

118 points by mobeigi 1y ago

schnitzelstoat 1y ago
It seems like the US has really cheap pricing compared to Western Europe, especially when you consider the poorer countries such as Portugal, Italy, Spain etc. I wonder if they can get away charging higher prices in these countries because chess is more popular there.
- mobeigi 1y ago
  Great observation! This is definitely something they do. India is a good example where the price should be lower based on purchasing power, but it’s been increased since chess is really popular there and they can make more overall profit by increasing the membership price.
- beejiu 1y ago
  Isn't it the case that US prices are without sales tax, whereas all EU/UK prices are inclusive of tax by law?
  - dec0dedab0de 1y ago
    Makes me wonder if the author tried different states/providences to see if they have multiple prices per country.
    - mobeigi 1y ago
      I checked several states from the US and some from other countries. I did not find any discrepancies within a country but I didn't check every combination of course!
    - paxys 1y ago
      In the US at least sales tax is only going to show up on the final checkout page, so this dataset won't have it.
  - pkaye 1y ago
    Yes as the sales tax rules vary from state to state. The interesting thing is historically I think sales tax was only for physical goods if you download the software there is no sales tax but if you get a physical CD then its taxed. Some states have modified the laws but many like California still don't tax downloaded software.
    - Doxin 1y ago
      For what it's worth VAT isn't uniform across the EU either. IIRC the EU specifies minimums, but countries are allowed higher rates and can manage their own exclusions too.
      - pkaye 1y ago
        It can get even more complicated here because you can have a county and/or city sales tax add-on so sales tax can vary from city to city.. Doesn't matter to much until you get into big purchases like cars that people starting buying cars in the lowest tax cities. So then the state starting requiring that the tax to be calculated to the address where you are registered.
- paxys 1y ago
  It looks worse than it is, because: 1. US prices don't include sales tax. 2. All prices are shown in USD, which has fallen ~12% in the last few months. Adjust for both of these and Western Europe gets the plans for 20% cheaper.
  - alberto-m 1y ago
    The sales tax is a fair point, but not the currency one. American companies are extremely quick to increase the Euro-denominated prices when this currency becomes weaker; six months would have been more than enough to perform the opposite adjustment. Anyway I can see how selling in the Europe has more friction (legal risks, costs of translations etc.), which must somehow be compensated.
- graybeardhacker 1y ago
  [flagged]
- eps 1y ago
  ... low pricing
Y_Y 1y ago
Chess.com is a scam anyway. Rather than comparing the price of Norwegian Chess.cok to Nigerian Chess.con you should be comparing to lichess.org. They have a better app and plenty of people to play with, without any paywalling or marketing or rent-seeking.
- mobeigi 1y ago
  I'm a big fan of lichess! Their developers are also super friendly and helped answer my questions when I was using their open source projects to build a hobby chess app. I donate regularly too. This post was more about exploring regional pricing using a case study and lichess being free in every country wasn't a good fit :)
- teiferer 1y ago
  > Chess.com is a scam anyway Is it? How so? Just because you like an alternative better doesn't make it a scam. Sure they are turning a profit. But when you pay, you get more features. You don't need to pay if you don't want those features or want them somewhere else. And they use some money to sponsor events. Titled Tuesday is a staple in the worldwide chess community and most top players play there. Not really yo make money, but to stay relevant (it's great PR to play against Magnus Carlsen and last for more than 20 moves or even make a draw) or to have a constant supply of really good players which keeps you sharp. They provide streaming and top-class commentary for top events. They are also involved in tournament sponsorship. So, please keep the hate to yourself and don't use "scam" lightly. You don't need to like them or ever use them. But once you come across an actual scam, it would be a pity if you burned that term.
  - Y_Y 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - teiferer 1y ago
      Idk man, your definition of "scam" seems different from other people's. "Old rope"? Is every non-EV a scam because it's "old rope"? Are people with cable TV subscriptions victims of scams because cable is "old rope"? There is a difference between "in my opinion, there is no value" and "scam". Most items in the grocery store around the corner I don't buy, because they don't have value to me. But the store is not a scam. There is an element of directed deception and lying missing, in my grocery store and chess.com as well. Unless you have evidence to the contrary, then please present it.
hartator 1y ago
> The fnf6_diamond_yearly_022025 SKU is particularly interesting. It irks me when we use “SKU” for SaaS. Does SaaS has a limited amount of stock of products?
- GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
  it's just a primary key :)
derekcheng08 1y ago
Fascinatingly deep study. It shows the hyperoptimization needed to build these businesses: from all the work needed to calibrate pricing for each country, to technical safeguards like the fingerprinting. A lot of work had to be done here.
remedan 1y ago
> It is the goal of every business to maximise profits. As a business, it is your responsibility to price your products in a way that will yield the most profit. This is how the article starts, and it might be somewhat off-topic, but I disagree. Plenty of businesses (at least privately held ones) have the goal of simply making enough for the owners to get by. Not to optimize for the absolute maximum. And why should they be responsible to do so?
- emptybits 1y ago
  Agreed. Related: the widely held belief that a corporation's singular goal is to maximize shareholder value.
  - andoando 1y ago
    It might not be the case legally, but it is the sole metric that stockholders value.
    - eCa 1y ago
      It’s not. Plenty of investors might skip investing in arms, petro, cigarettes or betting for moral reasons, even though it might yield more money.
- briandoll 1y ago
  In short, the leadership team has a fiduciary responsibility to their investors. Privately held lifestyle businesses don't, at least not as much.
  - lesuorac 1y ago
    But there's no concrete definition of fiduciary! One can easily argue that by having flat pricing they're doing their fiduciary responsibility because it's setting the company up to succeed in the long run through strong consumer trust. One can argue that by having regional pricing they're doing their fiduciary responsibility because it's setting the company up to succeed by having success in more markets. The takeaway from Dodge vs Ford [1] is that not fiduciary duty means dollars at any cost. It's that you need to have a reason that is good for the shareholders. If you don't bother to claim it's good for the shareholders then you're not doing your fiduciary duty. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.
Brosper 1y ago
Thank you for this. Have you heard about PPP (Purchasing Power Parity)? Some pages sell products -50% in Poland because we don't earn as much as in other countries.
haunter 1y ago
Steam used to have (until 2016) a two tier regonal pricing in the EU (EU1 and EU2) but they had to stop it because it was discrimination that people in Sweden paid more for a game than people in Bulgaria. Now everyone in the EU pays the same as people in Sweden. And of course games haven't become cheaper either
- paxys 1y ago
  There would be similar pushback if Steam started selling games for cheaper in Greenville, Alabama vs New York City. Plenty of regions in the USA have way worse economic disparity than the two you have highlighted. The point of being a single economic/political bloc is to be able to negotiate collectively and work towards a balance.
  - rockostrich 1y ago
    I don't think it'd be illegal in the case of the US though.
  - gryphonclaw 1y ago
    Eh you'd be surprised. GDP per capita in Bulgaria in 2024 was just $17,412 compared to $57,723 in Sweden (331% increase) while GDP per capita in Alabama was $61,846 compared to $116,883 in New York (189% increase). America's a lot more socioeconomically homogeneous compared to the EU due to Federal spending and a more integrated economy.
    - suddenlybananas 1y ago
      >America's a lot more socioeconomically homogeneous compared to the EU Well also the fact that America is a single country with a shared history.
    - btreecat 1y ago
      > Eh you'd be surprised. GDP per capita in Bulgaria in 2024 was just $17,412 compared to $57,723 in Sweden (331% increase) while GDP per capita in Alabama was $61,846 compared to $116,883 in New York (189% increase). America's a lot more socioeconomically homogeneous compared to the EU due to Federal spending and a more integrated economy. Using GDP as your _only_ metric, it does look that way. Why do you feel that GDP is repetitive of the average citizens purchasing power for entertainment?
throwhuppla 1y ago
[flagged]
tasuki 1y ago
Eh, the pricing should be tailored to the individual. Give each individual exactly the highest price point they can handle. Regional pricing is so yesteryear... (I think I'm kidding. Am I?)
- lotsofpulp 1y ago
  This is taught in microecon 101. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination Or in any basic market where you have to haggle for everyday goods such as food markets in poorer countries.
InsomniacL 1y ago
They priced me out of a subscription. £15 a month in the UK for an online chess game is crazy. I've paid for 3 months but this is my last. I'm only interested in Game review, but there are about 50 other sub-categories on their site that i don't use. Only their top tier of membership provides game review and to be honest it's not even that good. The game review is about the top 'computer' move, not what a human should do, and not one at my elo or to advance my elo.
- yardenshoham 1y ago
  Try https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/chesscom-analysis-at-lich/bhjlkimpkkgkmfjlcfngmakenalgleap https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/chesscom-analysis-a.... It allows free game overviews.
- whatamidoingyo 1y ago
  Lichess is incredible. I canceled my membership and deleted my chess.com account due to frustrations from disconnects and laggy movement. Lichess doesn't have these issues. It just feels way better to play vs chess.com.
  - zippyman55 1y ago
    agreed! i have a chess.com account but lichess.org is really great at no cost. It does not have the news feeds and the GM tie-ins, but its chess is first rate.
- _ache_ 1y ago
  Assuming you can self-host, you may be interested in OpenChess-Insights, abandonned but still working (on Linux, small error L420 in template/analysis.html). It's a interesting PoC. https://github.com/LinkAnJarad/OpenChess-Insights https://github.com/LinkAnJarad/OpenChess-Insights
- mna_ 1y ago
  Chess.com's game review is rubbish. Make an account on Lichess and play there instead. Lichess has engine analysis too and it's completely free.
coldcache 1y ago
I wish the data in this article was presented as a map with colors indicating the prices.
rootsudo 1y ago
I’ve done the same thing for discovering cheaper billing profile on many services, e.g. Netflix or whatnot. Never thought to document it. Finding it is a bit easy, processing the payment sometimes is geo locked by an account in that region (google/android) or having a form of payment in that country. Japan usually is paypay or a credit card with the BIN issued in Japan. There are many local payment providers though that do allow a foreign credit card so in the an China example: Download WeChat/alipay, add foreign credit card, Change region, ????, profit. It does get easier and very inexpensive if you do have foreign residencies and you can really rework purchasing. Spotify for example is not sticky, but they are aggressive on if they aren’t sure you’re region specific to lock you into a monthly plan before allowing you to switch to yearly. ~ There was also great arbitrage for a while on providers that allowed switching to turkey residency and allowing foreign credit card billing but this ended due to the currency instability and now most software sellers anchor it to another region. ~ Also you’d be surprised about the minimum requirements to open up financial accounts in foreign countries. Linepay is pretty much open, but kinda sucks (Japan, Taiwan and Thailand) and it seems the LINE developers are maximizing at destroying their app and audience while WeChat and Alipay are amazing for what they are in general.
- vachina 1y ago
  You can add foreign CCs to Alipay/WeChat, but you can't use it to add funds. Foreign CCs are also subject to a bunch of fees (network + card issuer + fx that seem to go up to 5%). There's no free lunch.
  - iancarroll 1y ago
    Many cards in the US do not charge any foreign transaction fees, and Alipay/WeChat waive their fees on small ticket items as well.

118 points by mobeigi 1y ago

It seems like the US has really cheap pricing compared to Western Europe, especially when you consider the poorer countries such as Portugal, Italy, Spain etc. I wonder if they can get away charging higher prices in these countries because chess is more popular there.

mobeigi 1y ago
Great observation! This is definitely something they do. India is a good example where the price should be lower based on purchasing power, but it’s been increased since chess is really popular there and they can make more overall profit by increasing the membership price.
beejiu 1y ago
Isn't it the case that US prices are without sales tax, whereas all EU/UK prices are inclusive of tax by law?
- dec0dedab0de 1y ago
  Makes me wonder if the author tried different states/providences to see if they have multiple prices per country.
  - mobeigi 1y ago
    I checked several states from the US and some from other countries. I did not find any discrepancies within a country but I didn't check every combination of course!
  - paxys 1y ago
    In the US at least sales tax is only going to show up on the final checkout page, so this dataset won't have it.
- pkaye 1y ago
  Yes as the sales tax rules vary from state to state. The interesting thing is historically I think sales tax was only for physical goods if you download the software there is no sales tax but if you get a physical CD then its taxed. Some states have modified the laws but many like California still don't tax downloaded software.
  - Doxin 1y ago
    For what it's worth VAT isn't uniform across the EU either. IIRC the EU specifies minimums, but countries are allowed higher rates and can manage their own exclusions too.
    - pkaye 1y ago
      It can get even more complicated here because you can have a county and/or city sales tax add-on so sales tax can vary from city to city.. Doesn't matter to much until you get into big purchases like cars that people starting buying cars in the lowest tax cities. So then the state starting requiring that the tax to be calculated to the address where you are registered.
paxys 1y ago
It looks worse than it is, because: 1. US prices don't include sales tax. 2. All prices are shown in USD, which has fallen ~12% in the last few months. Adjust for both of these and Western Europe gets the plans for 20% cheaper.
- alberto-m 1y ago
  The sales tax is a fair point, but not the currency one. American companies are extremely quick to increase the Euro-denominated prices when this currency becomes weaker; six months would have been more than enough to perform the opposite adjustment. Anyway I can see how selling in the Europe has more friction (legal risks, costs of translations etc.), which must somehow be compensated.
graybeardhacker 1y ago
[flagged]
eps 1y ago
... low pricing

Y_Y 1y ago

Chess.com is a scam anyway. Rather than comparing the price of Norwegian Chess.cok to Nigerian Chess.con you should be comparing to lichess.org. They have a better app and plenty of people to play with, without any paywalling or marketing or rent-seeking.

mobeigi 1y ago
I'm a big fan of lichess! Their developers are also super friendly and helped answer my questions when I was using their open source projects to build a hobby chess app. I donate regularly too. This post was more about exploring regional pricing using a case study and lichess being free in every country wasn't a good fit :)
teiferer 1y ago
> Chess.com is a scam anyway Is it? How so? Just because you like an alternative better doesn't make it a scam. Sure they are turning a profit. But when you pay, you get more features. You don't need to pay if you don't want those features or want them somewhere else. And they use some money to sponsor events. Titled Tuesday is a staple in the worldwide chess community and most top players play there. Not really yo make money, but to stay relevant (it's great PR to play against Magnus Carlsen and last for more than 20 moves or even make a draw) or to have a constant supply of really good players which keeps you sharp. They provide streaming and top-class commentary for top events. They are also involved in tournament sponsorship. So, please keep the hate to yourself and don't use "scam" lightly. You don't need to like them or ever use them. But once you come across an actual scam, it would be a pity if you burned that term.
- Y_Y 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - teiferer 1y ago
    Idk man, your definition of "scam" seems different from other people's. "Old rope"? Is every non-EV a scam because it's "old rope"? Are people with cable TV subscriptions victims of scams because cable is "old rope"? There is a difference between "in my opinion, there is no value" and "scam". Most items in the grocery store around the corner I don't buy, because they don't have value to me. But the store is not a scam. There is an element of directed deception and lying missing, in my grocery store and chess.com as well. Unless you have evidence to the contrary, then please present it.

hartator 1y ago

> The fnf6_diamond_yearly_022025 SKU is particularly interesting. It irks me when we use “SKU” for SaaS. Does SaaS has a limited amount of stock of products?

GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
it's just a primary key :)

derekcheng08 1y ago

Fascinatingly deep study. It shows the hyperoptimization needed to build these businesses: from all the work needed to calibrate pricing for each country, to technical safeguards like the fingerprinting. A lot of work had to be done here.

remedan 1y ago

> It is the goal of every business to maximise profits. As a business, it is your responsibility to price your products in a way that will yield the most profit. This is how the article starts, and it might be somewhat off-topic, but I disagree. Plenty of businesses (at least privately held ones) have the goal of simply making enough for the owners to get by. Not to optimize for the absolute maximum. And why should they be responsible to do so?

emptybits 1y ago
Agreed. Related: the widely held belief that a corporation's singular goal is to maximize shareholder value.
- andoando 1y ago
  It might not be the case legally, but it is the sole metric that stockholders value.
  - eCa 1y ago
    It’s not. Plenty of investors might skip investing in arms, petro, cigarettes or betting for moral reasons, even though it might yield more money.
briandoll 1y ago
In short, the leadership team has a fiduciary responsibility to their investors. Privately held lifestyle businesses don't, at least not as much.
- lesuorac 1y ago
  But there's no concrete definition of fiduciary! One can easily argue that by having flat pricing they're doing their fiduciary responsibility because it's setting the company up to succeed in the long run through strong consumer trust. One can argue that by having regional pricing they're doing their fiduciary responsibility because it's setting the company up to succeed by having success in more markets. The takeaway from Dodge vs Ford [1] is that not fiduciary duty means dollars at any cost. It's that you need to have a reason that is good for the shareholders. If you don't bother to claim it's good for the shareholders then you're not doing your fiduciary duty. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.

Brosper 1y ago

Thank you for this. Have you heard about PPP (Purchasing Power Parity)? Some pages sell products -50% in Poland because we don't earn as much as in other countries.

haunter 1y ago

Steam used to have (until 2016) a two tier regonal pricing in the EU (EU1 and EU2) but they had to stop it because it was discrimination that people in Sweden paid more for a game than people in Bulgaria. Now everyone in the EU pays the same as people in Sweden. And of course games haven't become cheaper either

paxys 1y ago
There would be similar pushback if Steam started selling games for cheaper in Greenville, Alabama vs New York City. Plenty of regions in the USA have way worse economic disparity than the two you have highlighted. The point of being a single economic/political bloc is to be able to negotiate collectively and work towards a balance.
- rockostrich 1y ago
  I don't think it'd be illegal in the case of the US though.
- gryphonclaw 1y ago
  Eh you'd be surprised. GDP per capita in Bulgaria in 2024 was just $17,412 compared to $57,723 in Sweden (331% increase) while GDP per capita in Alabama was $61,846 compared to $116,883 in New York (189% increase). America's a lot more socioeconomically homogeneous compared to the EU due to Federal spending and a more integrated economy.
  - suddenlybananas 1y ago
    >America's a lot more socioeconomically homogeneous compared to the EU Well also the fact that America is a single country with a shared history.
  - btreecat 1y ago
    > Eh you'd be surprised. GDP per capita in Bulgaria in 2024 was just $17,412 compared to $57,723 in Sweden (331% increase) while GDP per capita in Alabama was $61,846 compared to $116,883 in New York (189% increase). America's a lot more socioeconomically homogeneous compared to the EU due to Federal spending and a more integrated economy. Using GDP as your _only_ metric, it does look that way. Why do you feel that GDP is repetitive of the average citizens purchasing power for entertainment?

throwhuppla 1y ago

[flagged]

tasuki 1y ago

Eh, the pricing should be tailored to the individual. Give each individual exactly the highest price point they can handle. Regional pricing is so yesteryear... (I think I'm kidding. Am I?)

lotsofpulp 1y ago
This is taught in microecon 101. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination Or in any basic market where you have to haggle for everyday goods such as food markets in poorer countries.

InsomniacL 1y ago

They priced me out of a subscription. £15 a month in the UK for an online chess game is crazy. I've paid for 3 months but this is my last. I'm only interested in Game review, but there are about 50 other sub-categories on their site that i don't use. Only their top tier of membership provides game review and to be honest it's not even that good. The game review is about the top 'computer' move, not what a human should do, and not one at my elo or to advance my elo.

yardenshoham 1y ago
Try https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/chesscom-analysis-at-lich/bhjlkimpkkgkmfjlcfngmakenalgleap https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/chesscom-analysis-a.... It allows free game overviews.
whatamidoingyo 1y ago
Lichess is incredible. I canceled my membership and deleted my chess.com account due to frustrations from disconnects and laggy movement. Lichess doesn't have these issues. It just feels way better to play vs chess.com.
- zippyman55 1y ago
  agreed! i have a chess.com account but lichess.org is really great at no cost. It does not have the news feeds and the GM tie-ins, but its chess is first rate.
_ache_ 1y ago
Assuming you can self-host, you may be interested in OpenChess-Insights, abandonned but still working (on Linux, small error L420 in template/analysis.html). It's a interesting PoC. https://github.com/LinkAnJarad/OpenChess-Insights https://github.com/LinkAnJarad/OpenChess-Insights
mna_ 1y ago
Chess.com's game review is rubbish. Make an account on Lichess and play there instead. Lichess has engine analysis too and it's completely free.

coldcache 1y ago

I wish the data in this article was presented as a map with colors indicating the prices.

rootsudo 1y ago

I’ve done the same thing for discovering cheaper billing profile on many services, e.g. Netflix or whatnot. Never thought to document it. Finding it is a bit easy, processing the payment sometimes is geo locked by an account in that region (google/android) or having a form of payment in that country. Japan usually is paypay or a credit card with the BIN issued in Japan. There are many local payment providers though that do allow a foreign credit card so in the an China example: Download WeChat/alipay, add foreign credit card, Change region, ????, profit. It does get easier and very inexpensive if you do have foreign residencies and you can really rework purchasing. Spotify for example is not sticky, but they are aggressive on if they aren’t sure you’re region specific to lock you into a monthly plan before allowing you to switch to yearly. ~ There was also great arbitrage for a while on providers that allowed switching to turkey residency and allowing foreign credit card billing but this ended due to the currency instability and now most software sellers anchor it to another region. ~ Also you’d be surprised about the minimum requirements to open up financial accounts in foreign countries. Linepay is pretty much open, but kinda sucks (Japan, Taiwan and Thailand) and it seems the LINE developers are maximizing at destroying their app and audience while WeChat and Alipay are amazing for what they are in general.

vachina 1y ago
You can add foreign CCs to Alipay/WeChat, but you can't use it to add funds. Foreign CCs are also subject to a bunch of fees (network + card issuer + fx that seem to go up to 5%). There's no free lunch.
- iancarroll 1y ago
  Many cards in the US do not charge any foreign transaction fees, and Alipay/WeChat waive their fees on small ticket items as well.