8 ms·

Ohno Type School: A (2020)

209 points by tobr 1y ago

x187463 1y ago
A sentence I wouldn't have expected to encounter today: "A failure to really dig in to the buttcrack creates a bold spot, but even worse, it de-emphasizes the B-ness." Sites like this are fun. I don't have the actual knowledge to tell if the commentary is insightful or informative but it's usually a good time when you get to look closely at something you take for granted.
- munchbunny 1y ago
  It's a very colorful way to describe the phenomenon, but it is a real problem with the "Y" part of the B.
- keeganpoppen 1y ago
  you're not even mentioning the "can't get a finger in there!" text with the arrow that comes in above. i love it. it feels like humor is finally coming back again in the public discourse, and i'm here for it.
philipallstar 1y ago
> What we want is a balance between the top and bottom negative spaces. One thing I never understand is why they say "negative spaces" instead of just "spaces".
- kqr 1y ago
  In visual design, it is things that occupy space. The areas left unoccupied by things are called negative space. So if you hang a massive painting, that painting takes up positive space. The parts of the wall that are not covered by that painting make up the negative space.
  - philipallstar 1y ago
    I've just never encountered a situation where that's a necessary distinction. If I say "the painting takes up too much space on the wall" I don't need to say "the painting has too much positive space" nor "the painting removes too much negative space".
    - mejutoco 1y ago
      Henry Moore is a sculptor that uses the negative space a lot. It can be useful to refer to the "holes" in the sculpture https://www.tate.org.uk/art/research-publications/henry-moore/henry-moore-om-ch-reclining-figure-r1172012 https://www.tate.org.uk/art/research-publications/henry-moor...
      - philipallstar 1y ago
        I think this is a good example of the specific, limited way in which this phrase is useful. It's similar to the - very specific - phrase "price point", which people often use to just mean generic "price" now when they want to sound businessy.
    - kqr 1y ago
      Just last week I was hanging photos with my wife in our home and after she had proposed a placement I told her "I don't like the balance of the negative space there". I could have said "I don't feel like the parts of the wall not taken up by photos are balanced there" but "negative space" is a convenient abstraction. (Note that this is different from the photos themselves being unbalanced, which is also a concern but was not a problem then.) Think of it like a foreach loop. Sure, it's equivalent to the corresponding for(;;)-style loop but it's also a convenient mental shortcut.
    - empath75 1y ago
      If you are doing visual design, if you want to call out the parts of the space you are working in where you _aren't doing anything_, that is the 'negative space'. If you are producing a letterform, all the parts of the object you are producing which is not filled by letter is the 'negative space'. The "space" is the whole area, including the letter. People intentionally play with the distinction in optical illusions: https://inthewhitespace.com/2021/11/17/what-it-means-to-be-in-the-whitespace/ https://inthewhitespace.com/2021/11/17/what-it-means-to-be-i...
- Sharlin 1y ago
  I guess one reason is that adding "negative" turns the generic noun "space" into a specific term of art. A shibboleth, if you will.
  - philipallstar 1y ago
    I agree.
  - empath75 1y ago
    Communities don't generally invent jargon for no reason, and a lot of things that people see as gatekeeping and shibboleths are just terms that save a lot of time in communication between people who know what they mean. If you are a programmer, terms like "imperative" or "declarative" are extremely opaque to outsiders, but convey a lot of information efficiently if you know what they mean.
    - Sharlin 1y ago
      To clarify, I didn't mean it in a disparaging way. I'm a hobbyist photographer and have used the term a plenty of times myself. I'm also interested in graphic design and typography :D
flobosg 1y ago
(2020), check https://ohnotype.co/blog/tagged/teaching https://ohnotype.co/blog/tagged/teaching for letters other than A.
polyamid23 1y ago
Not too long ago there was a submission of a font-editor[1] and I gave it a shot trying things out, just to realize, that my creations looked off and ugly, not really understanding why. This helps a lot. So much nuance to so many things.... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45347072 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45347072
turnsout 1y ago
As someone who has designed multiple type families, I might be biased, but this is wonderful. I'm going to send this to any aspiring type designers I meet, or anyone who's curious about what goes into shaping letters.
NiloCK 1y ago
This is pretty great. Might have been better to see before my typeface layperson's implementation of these guys: https://letterspractice.com/dbg/lp https://letterspractice.com/dbg/lp (note: root site not actually ready for publish. don't click too many things or you could ruin my life (mostly a joke about the ruination))
JKCalhoun 1y ago
Did not expect Sesame Street for fonts. Excellent.
seanw265 1y ago
The designer obviously knows a thing or two. I enjoyed the fun presentation that others seem to dislike. Where I ran into trouble was the readability of the annotations on the visuals. The tiny font combined with the low contrast was too much for me. I found myself squinting and trying to get close to my monitor. Eventually I had to move on, even though I was enjoying the content.
Fraterkes 1y ago
Also by this guy: Futurefonts.com Lots of great cheap in-progress fonts with documentation of the process of creating them.
upghost 1y ago
Not the type theory we wanted, but the type theory we needed.
hbn 1y ago
Ooh, recognize this domain! Oh No created the official typeface for one of my favorite bands, Vulfpeck https://ohnotype.co/fonts/vulf https://ohnotype.co/fonts/vulf There's some great lyrics animations in a lot of their music videos[1] done by Rob Stenson using an open-source library he authored called Coldtype[2]. I played around with it a few years ago, it's quite neat. You can animate variable fonts with python, and even hook it into midi tracks and a lot more. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2_CJ_nx-l4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2_CJ_nx-l4 [2] https://github.com/coldtype/coldtype https://github.com/coldtype/coldtype Bonus link, Rob also did the visual for this video, hooking into midi tracks to visualize a synth cover of a Bach fugue https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJfiOuDdetg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJfiOuDdetg
dang 1y ago
[stub for offtopicness] All: please note this from https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html: "Please don't complain about tangential annoyances—e.g. article or website formats, name collisions, or back-button breakage. They're too common to be interesting." Yes, sites that don't work on your device are annoying—but uninteresting, offtopic, irritable threads are the closer-to-home annoyance here.
- niek_pas 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - huem0n 1y ago
    It works well for me on mobile
  - Normal_gaussian 1y ago
    I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the author does not in fact specialise in web design, and thus its quite expected that when they do something unusual that it won't work for some portion of the audience. It works fine on some mobiles.
  - rzwitserloot 1y ago
    This could have easily been a youtube short or whatever 'vine offshoot' is your particular favourite flavour. On one hand, videos are terrible for accessibility. On the other hand, by being a website, in theory this stands a better shot. And yet, someone on a mobile phone probably has a much worse experience trying to consume this content than the equivalent as a series of shorts, one for each letter. I don't know what conclusions we are meant to draw. I just found it an interesting realisation.
  - blahgeek 1y ago
    This page works beautifully in my iPhone. As I scroll down, the content slides and animates. I actually came here to say that I’m stunned that this effect can be good in mobile, only to find out your comment :D
Alchemmist 1y ago
It's very interactive and pretty!

209 points by tobr 1y ago

A sentence I wouldn't have expected to encounter today: "A failure to really dig in to the buttcrack creates a bold spot, but even worse, it de-emphasizes the B-ness." Sites like this are fun. I don't have the actual knowledge to tell if the commentary is insightful or informative but it's usually a good time when you get to look closely at something you take for granted.

munchbunny 1y ago
It's a very colorful way to describe the phenomenon, but it is a real problem with the "Y" part of the B.
keeganpoppen 1y ago
you're not even mentioning the "can't get a finger in there!" text with the arrow that comes in above. i love it. it feels like humor is finally coming back again in the public discourse, and i'm here for it.

philipallstar 1y ago

> What we want is a balance between the top and bottom negative spaces. One thing I never understand is why they say "negative spaces" instead of just "spaces".

kqr 1y ago
In visual design, it is things that occupy space. The areas left unoccupied by things are called negative space. So if you hang a massive painting, that painting takes up positive space. The parts of the wall that are not covered by that painting make up the negative space.
- philipallstar 1y ago
  I've just never encountered a situation where that's a necessary distinction. If I say "the painting takes up too much space on the wall" I don't need to say "the painting has too much positive space" nor "the painting removes too much negative space".
  - mejutoco 1y ago
    Henry Moore is a sculptor that uses the negative space a lot. It can be useful to refer to the "holes" in the sculpture https://www.tate.org.uk/art/research-publications/henry-moore/henry-moore-om-ch-reclining-figure-r1172012 https://www.tate.org.uk/art/research-publications/henry-moor...
    - philipallstar 1y ago
      I think this is a good example of the specific, limited way in which this phrase is useful. It's similar to the - very specific - phrase "price point", which people often use to just mean generic "price" now when they want to sound businessy.
  - kqr 1y ago
    Just last week I was hanging photos with my wife in our home and after she had proposed a placement I told her "I don't like the balance of the negative space there". I could have said "I don't feel like the parts of the wall not taken up by photos are balanced there" but "negative space" is a convenient abstraction. (Note that this is different from the photos themselves being unbalanced, which is also a concern but was not a problem then.) Think of it like a foreach loop. Sure, it's equivalent to the corresponding for(;;)-style loop but it's also a convenient mental shortcut.
  - empath75 1y ago
    If you are doing visual design, if you want to call out the parts of the space you are working in where you _aren't doing anything_, that is the 'negative space'. If you are producing a letterform, all the parts of the object you are producing which is not filled by letter is the 'negative space'. The "space" is the whole area, including the letter. People intentionally play with the distinction in optical illusions: https://inthewhitespace.com/2021/11/17/what-it-means-to-be-in-the-whitespace/ https://inthewhitespace.com/2021/11/17/what-it-means-to-be-i...
Sharlin 1y ago
I guess one reason is that adding "negative" turns the generic noun "space" into a specific term of art. A shibboleth, if you will.
- philipallstar 1y ago
  I agree.
- empath75 1y ago
  Communities don't generally invent jargon for no reason, and a lot of things that people see as gatekeeping and shibboleths are just terms that save a lot of time in communication between people who know what they mean. If you are a programmer, terms like "imperative" or "declarative" are extremely opaque to outsiders, but convey a lot of information efficiently if you know what they mean.
  - Sharlin 1y ago
    To clarify, I didn't mean it in a disparaging way. I'm a hobbyist photographer and have used the term a plenty of times myself. I'm also interested in graphic design and typography :D

flobosg 1y ago

(2020), check https://ohnotype.co/blog/tagged/teaching https://ohnotype.co/blog/tagged/teaching for letters other than A.

polyamid23 1y ago

Not too long ago there was a submission of a font-editor[1] and I gave it a shot trying things out, just to realize, that my creations looked off and ugly, not really understanding why. This helps a lot. So much nuance to so many things.... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45347072 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45347072

turnsout 1y ago

As someone who has designed multiple type families, I might be biased, but this is wonderful. I'm going to send this to any aspiring type designers I meet, or anyone who's curious about what goes into shaping letters.

NiloCK 1y ago

This is pretty great. Might have been better to see before my typeface layperson's implementation of these guys: https://letterspractice.com/dbg/lp https://letterspractice.com/dbg/lp (note: root site not actually ready for publish. don't click too many things or you could ruin my life (mostly a joke about the ruination))

JKCalhoun 1y ago

Did not expect Sesame Street for fonts. Excellent.

seanw265 1y ago

The designer obviously knows a thing or two. I enjoyed the fun presentation that others seem to dislike. Where I ran into trouble was the readability of the annotations on the visuals. The tiny font combined with the low contrast was too much for me. I found myself squinting and trying to get close to my monitor. Eventually I had to move on, even though I was enjoying the content.

Fraterkes 1y ago

Also by this guy: Futurefonts.com Lots of great cheap in-progress fonts with documentation of the process of creating them.

upghost 1y ago

Not the type theory we wanted, but the type theory we needed.

hbn 1y ago

Ooh, recognize this domain! Oh No created the official typeface for one of my favorite bands, Vulfpeck https://ohnotype.co/fonts/vulf https://ohnotype.co/fonts/vulf There's some great lyrics animations in a lot of their music videos[1] done by Rob Stenson using an open-source library he authored called Coldtype[2]. I played around with it a few years ago, it's quite neat. You can animate variable fonts with python, and even hook it into midi tracks and a lot more. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2_CJ_nx-l4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2_CJ_nx-l4 [2] https://github.com/coldtype/coldtype https://github.com/coldtype/coldtype Bonus link, Rob also did the visual for this video, hooking into midi tracks to visualize a synth cover of a Bach fugue https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJfiOuDdetg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJfiOuDdetg

dang 1y ago

[stub for offtopicness] All: please note this from https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html: "Please don't complain about tangential annoyances—e.g. article or website formats, name collisions, or back-button breakage. They're too common to be interesting." Yes, sites that don't work on your device are annoying—but uninteresting, offtopic, irritable threads are the closer-to-home annoyance here.

niek_pas 1y ago
[flagged]
- huem0n 1y ago
  It works well for me on mobile
- Normal_gaussian 1y ago
  I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the author does not in fact specialise in web design, and thus its quite expected that when they do something unusual that it won't work for some portion of the audience. It works fine on some mobiles.
- rzwitserloot 1y ago
  This could have easily been a youtube short or whatever 'vine offshoot' is your particular favourite flavour. On one hand, videos are terrible for accessibility. On the other hand, by being a website, in theory this stands a better shot. And yet, someone on a mobile phone probably has a much worse experience trying to consume this content than the equivalent as a series of shorts, one for each letter. I don't know what conclusions we are meant to draw. I just found it an interesting realisation.
- blahgeek 1y ago
  This page works beautifully in my iPhone. As I scroll down, the content slides and animates. I actually came here to say that I’m stunned that this effect can be good in mobile, only to find out your comment :D

Alchemmist 1y ago

It's very interactive and pretty!