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> It was sparked after Ruby Central chose to platform an extremist figure prominently for their last RailsConf This is so incredibly one-sided that it misleads

> It was sparked after Ruby Central chose to platform an extremist figure prominently for their last RailsConf This is so incredibly one-sided that it misleads more than it informs. The person they are talking about is DHH. Inviting the creator of Rails to speak at RailsConf – a conference for Rails – is not the outlandish behaviour this comment makes it sound like.

IshKebab 1y ago
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- dustedcodes 1y ago
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- jmcgough 1y ago
  NYC has roughly the same stats - 40% of the residents there are foreign-born. This is more to do with low birth rates by natives, so population growth in NYC and London is entirely driven by immigration. The biggest problem is that it's too expensive for most people to have and raise kids in major cities. What was more troubling to me was that he called the Tommy Robinson rallies "heartwarming". TR was a member of an explicitly fascist, white nationalist party. The rallies were full of signs calling for death to Muslims. Or, in the same blog post, his disproven claims of migrant gang r*pes. On top of that, he has written some really vile things about transgender people. I would like to go to a tech conference and focus on Ruby, not politics. I'd like to leave my identity home and discuss software engineering and interesting technical ideas. DHH has made that impossible.
  - IshKebab 1y ago
    > he has written some other really vile things about transgender people. Do you have a link? I suspect these "really vile things" will turn out to be not so vile (like JKR), just things you don't agree with. > I'd like to leave my identity home and discuss software engineering and interesting technical ideas. DHH has made that impossible. Really? Did he talk about politics at this Ruby conference? Seems like it is you that can't focus on Ruby.
    - phoronixrly 1y ago
      https://tomstu.art/the-dhh-problem https://tomstu.art/the-dhh-problem
      - IshKebab 1y ago
        Couldn't find anything there, can you be more specific?
    - soraminazuki 1y ago
      > I suspect these "really vile things" will turn out to be not so vile (like JKR) "Not so vile" things like spreading lies about a female Olymics Boxer's gender, calling her terrible names, and inciting her online followers to harass her? She not only bullies transgender individuals but also targets other women who don't meet her own standards of femininity. If you have no problems with people like that, no wonder you can't fathom why the Ruby community has trouble accepting similar people with open arms.
      - IshKebab 1y ago
        Again, link? It's no good just talking about what heinous things someone has done. That kind of talk is always incredibly unreliable.
        soraminazuki 1y ago
        Evidence for thee, but not for me? You write with such authority on this topic, yet you insist on demanding evidence for even the most basic knowledge surrounding it. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm2njjm4e2po https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm2njjm4e2po https://xcancel.com/jk_rowling/status/1819007216214573268 https://xcancel.com/jk_rowling/status/1819007216214573268 https://xcancel.com/jk_rowling/status/1931144695771435140 https://xcancel.com/jk_rowling/status/1931144695771435140 Also, on another note, here's one of her many posts from JKR literally equating trans women with sexual predators. https://xcancel.com/jk_rowling/status/1972054407148695732 https://xcancel.com/jk_rowling/status/1972054407148695732 It's astonishing how far some people will go to defend this kind of dehumanization of fellow human beings.
  - sad-pack 1y ago
    "I care about Ruby and want it to die…” “I try to discourage them because I don’t want more Ruby code in the world…” I wouldn't bother replying to that account, it's not arguing in good faith. Ishkebab has stated many times its goal is to kill ruby and its community. It's commenting here to stir things up. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43331847 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43331847 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43331847 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43331847
    - IshKebab 1y ago
      > It's commenting here to stir things up. I'm not. It's true that I dislike Ruby and prefer everyone would abandon it, but that's orthogonal to the issue we're discussing. In fact I'm saying that the Ruby community is being stupid and shooting themselves in the foot by characterizing relatively mainstream right wing views as "extremism". If I was being disingenuous I should really encourage this schism! > It Dunno if you're a native English speaker or not but the normal way to refer to someone of unknown gender is "they". "It" is offensive.
      - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
        > relatively mainstream This doesn't preclude extreme. Not commenting on whether the community's is shooting themselves in the foot or not, just that the reason provided is not a good one for believing so. > If I was being disingenuous I should really encourage this schism! I do not think that you are necessarily being disingenuous but misunderstanding the difference of opinion in this way actually seems to encourage said schism.
        IshKebab 1y ago
        > This doesn't preclude extreme. Uhm yeah it literally does. Mainstream views can't be extreme by definition. You might not agree with them, but that's a different thing. > misunderstanding the difference of opinion in this way I haven't misunderstood anything.
        1y ago
- rossriley 1y ago
  The population of London at the last census was still 60% British born. The difference between 2000 is that the figure was 60% white British. He's not saying London doesn't have enough British people, he's saying it doesn't have enough white people in it. That and saying it was heartwarming to see a Tommy Robinson march who represents the most extreme fringe of British right wing politics.
- sunshine-o 1y ago
  Interesting, I only knew who he was through his "Leaving the cloud" serie of posts. I am just trying to draw a parallel between the two to try to understand its broader ideology. So some might say both big cities like London and hyperscaler like AWS are: - very expensive and have become unaffordable for many actors - limit your freedom to scale and accommodate a very broad range of guests - under massive surveillance and control where the comparison stops is: - AWS offers pretty good security but London is not (and hasn't for a long time) - It is pretty easy to get kicked out of AWS if you do not follow the rule or pay
shevy-java 1y ago
Agreed. There is a lot of conflation of statements that are not directly connected. The whole DHH argument, for instance, as well as some people having a vendetta about him, is not, or not directly, related to the hostile take-over of rubygems.org. There is a slight partial overlap, but it is a separate discussion (even if DHH was involved with the take-over via Shopify because he does not like Arko or Shopify wanting more power-control to bully the independent developers at rubygems.org with more corporate rules and restrictions; and, by the way, DHH never mentions Arko's name, but even this is a separate discussion still. For instance I specifically do not care about rails nor DHH really, but the hostile take-over was a complete no-go. Ruby Central really pissed off too many people here and unfortunately there are still many open questions that ruby-core has to think about. I am not necessarily saying all came with malicious intent, because I think there is an english language barrier too in regards to Hiroshi Shibata, but even then it may be better to have someone with better knowledge about the english language in charge of gems; there seems to be some strange disconnect or translation going on between english, into japanese and japanese culture, and it is super-confusing.)

IshKebab 1y ago

[flagged]

dustedcodes 1y ago
[flagged]
jmcgough 1y ago
NYC has roughly the same stats - 40% of the residents there are foreign-born. This is more to do with low birth rates by natives, so population growth in NYC and London is entirely driven by immigration. The biggest problem is that it's too expensive for most people to have and raise kids in major cities. What was more troubling to me was that he called the Tommy Robinson rallies "heartwarming". TR was a member of an explicitly fascist, white nationalist party. The rallies were full of signs calling for death to Muslims. Or, in the same blog post, his disproven claims of migrant gang r*pes. On top of that, he has written some really vile things about transgender people. I would like to go to a tech conference and focus on Ruby, not politics. I'd like to leave my identity home and discuss software engineering and interesting technical ideas. DHH has made that impossible.
- IshKebab 1y ago
  > he has written some other really vile things about transgender people. Do you have a link? I suspect these "really vile things" will turn out to be not so vile (like JKR), just things you don't agree with. > I'd like to leave my identity home and discuss software engineering and interesting technical ideas. DHH has made that impossible. Really? Did he talk about politics at this Ruby conference? Seems like it is you that can't focus on Ruby.
  - phoronixrly 1y ago
    https://tomstu.art/the-dhh-problem https://tomstu.art/the-dhh-problem
    - IshKebab 1y ago
      Couldn't find anything there, can you be more specific?
  - soraminazuki 1y ago
    > I suspect these "really vile things" will turn out to be not so vile (like JKR) "Not so vile" things like spreading lies about a female Olymics Boxer's gender, calling her terrible names, and inciting her online followers to harass her? She not only bullies transgender individuals but also targets other women who don't meet her own standards of femininity. If you have no problems with people like that, no wonder you can't fathom why the Ruby community has trouble accepting similar people with open arms.
    - IshKebab 1y ago
      Again, link? It's no good just talking about what heinous things someone has done. That kind of talk is always incredibly unreliable.
      - soraminazuki 1y ago
        Evidence for thee, but not for me? You write with such authority on this topic, yet you insist on demanding evidence for even the most basic knowledge surrounding it. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm2njjm4e2po https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm2njjm4e2po https://xcancel.com/jk_rowling/status/1819007216214573268 https://xcancel.com/jk_rowling/status/1819007216214573268 https://xcancel.com/jk_rowling/status/1931144695771435140 https://xcancel.com/jk_rowling/status/1931144695771435140 Also, on another note, here's one of her many posts from JKR literally equating trans women with sexual predators. https://xcancel.com/jk_rowling/status/1972054407148695732 https://xcancel.com/jk_rowling/status/1972054407148695732 It's astonishing how far some people will go to defend this kind of dehumanization of fellow human beings.
- sad-pack 1y ago
  "I care about Ruby and want it to die…” “I try to discourage them because I don’t want more Ruby code in the world…” I wouldn't bother replying to that account, it's not arguing in good faith. Ishkebab has stated many times its goal is to kill ruby and its community. It's commenting here to stir things up. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43331847 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43331847 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43331847 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43331847
  - IshKebab 1y ago
    > It's commenting here to stir things up. I'm not. It's true that I dislike Ruby and prefer everyone would abandon it, but that's orthogonal to the issue we're discussing. In fact I'm saying that the Ruby community is being stupid and shooting themselves in the foot by characterizing relatively mainstream right wing views as "extremism". If I was being disingenuous I should really encourage this schism! > It Dunno if you're a native English speaker or not but the normal way to refer to someone of unknown gender is "they". "It" is offensive.
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
      > relatively mainstream This doesn't preclude extreme. Not commenting on whether the community's is shooting themselves in the foot or not, just that the reason provided is not a good one for believing so. > If I was being disingenuous I should really encourage this schism! I do not think that you are necessarily being disingenuous but misunderstanding the difference of opinion in this way actually seems to encourage said schism.
      - IshKebab 1y ago
        > This doesn't preclude extreme. Uhm yeah it literally does. Mainstream views can't be extreme by definition. You might not agree with them, but that's a different thing. > misunderstanding the difference of opinion in this way I haven't misunderstood anything.
        1y ago
rossriley 1y ago
The population of London at the last census was still 60% British born. The difference between 2000 is that the figure was 60% white British. He's not saying London doesn't have enough British people, he's saying it doesn't have enough white people in it. That and saying it was heartwarming to see a Tommy Robinson march who represents the most extreme fringe of British right wing politics.
sunshine-o 1y ago
Interesting, I only knew who he was through his "Leaving the cloud" serie of posts. I am just trying to draw a parallel between the two to try to understand its broader ideology. So some might say both big cities like London and hyperscaler like AWS are: - very expensive and have become unaffordable for many actors - limit your freedom to scale and accommodate a very broad range of guests - under massive surveillance and control where the comparison stops is: - AWS offers pretty good security but London is not (and hasn't for a long time) - It is pretty easy to get kicked out of AWS if you do not follow the rule or pay

shevy-java 1y ago

Agreed. There is a lot of conflation of statements that are not directly connected. The whole DHH argument, for instance, as well as some people having a vendetta about him, is not, or not directly, related to the hostile take-over of rubygems.org. There is a slight partial overlap, but it is a separate discussion (even if DHH was involved with the take-over via Shopify because he does not like Arko or Shopify wanting more power-control to bully the independent developers at rubygems.org with more corporate rules and restrictions; and, by the way, DHH never mentions Arko's name, but even this is a separate discussion still. For instance I specifically do not care about rails nor DHH really, but the hostile take-over was a complete no-go. Ruby Central really pissed off too many people here and unfortunately there are still many open questions that ruby-core has to think about. I am not necessarily saying all came with malicious intent, because I think there is an english language barrier too in regards to Hiroshi Shibata, but even then it may be better to have someone with better knowledge about the english language in charge of gems; there seems to be some strange disconnect or translation going on between english, into japanese and japanese culture, and it is super-confusing.)