8 ms·

Germany did one simple thing (uncharacteristically) which is removing all the bureaucracy here. Just go ahead and do it. It's fine. Cost in the article is cite

• grumpy-de-sre 1y ago
  Not a bad legacy for Robert Habeck (along with the wind reforms), the leader we needed but didn't deserve [1][2]. Interestingly he's recently dropped out of politics and taken a teaching role at UC Berkeley. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxwVR5JF8Ok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxwVR5JF8Ok 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxnnVPO9GFU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxnnVPO9GFU
  • MrGilbert 1y ago
    According to his Instagram, he is currently working in Copenhagen: https://www.instagram.com/p/DOFwjUfDXdp/ https://www.instagram.com/p/DOFwjUfDXdp/
    • grumpy-de-sre 1y ago
      Thanks for the update! I wonder if he changed his mind on the Berkeley offer [1]. Part time role though so maybe he just hasn't relocated. 1. https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/habeck-gastdozent-berkeley-100.html https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/habeck-gastdoz...
      • wvbdmp 1y ago
        Copenhagen, then California was always the plan afaik. Berkeley is just not until next year.
  • tirant 1y ago
    [flagged]
    • BoredPositron 1y ago
      Thats a lot of historical revision if you blame a dude who was minister for 3.5 years about decisions made 20-30 years ago. Same for your last paragraph. Nothing even close to that happened in the years he governed. Maybe you should start showing recipes because it looks like your grievances are personal in nature and everything but factual.
      • mbeex 1y ago
        > it looks like your grievances are personal Given the changing voting behavior in Germany, these personal complaints seem to be quite widespread.
        • tcfhgj 1y ago
          > Given the changing voting behavior in Germany therefore "the leader we needed but didn't deserve"
        • BoredPositron 1y ago
          It's fine to have those grievances if you can articulate them factual. Hell they are even fine if you can't. The only thing I am saying is that you don't need to make stuff up just to give those grievances weight or convey others to your sentiment...
      • spongebobism 1y ago
        More like 3.5 years, right? December 2021 through May 2025.
        • BoredPositron 1y ago
          You are right. Corrected.
    • 1y ago
  • walthamstow 1y ago
    I'm not German nor do I live there, but I would have thought the legacy of Habeck would be more negative due to his opposition to nuclear.
    • MaKey 1y ago
      Germany's nuclear power plants were shut down by the governments before him. What do you think he should have done differently?
      • jansan 1y ago
        The plan to shut down nuclear power plants was done under the premise of a stable supply of Russian gas. This supply abruptly stopped, but instead of using the remaining nuclear power plants to mitigate the supply shock (at that time nuclear power was even classified as sustainable by the EU btw.), he even accelerated the shutdown and sold it as inevitable. In my opinion this was the worst political decision of German politics since WW2, unless he wanted to hurt German industry on purpose, which is not even unthinkable.
        • slightwinder 1y ago
          > This supply abruptly stopped, but instead of using the remaining nuclear power plants to mitigate the supply shock There was nothing to mitigate. The nuclear plants deliver electricity, which was never a problem in Germany. > he even accelerated the shutdown and sold it as inevitable. That's a lie. They even prolonged the usage for some months to appease the fearmongers. But without fuel, there was a limit on how they could run anyway. > unless he wanted to hurt German industry on purpose, which is not even unthinkable. Ah, you're from the conspiracy-bubble...
          • mk89 1y ago
            [flagged]
            • 1y ago
  • mk89 1y ago
    The leader we didn't deserve? Sorry but Merkel reached almost 50% of energy production with renewables. Germany was already a leader in 2021-2022 with almost 45-50%. The idea was to grow "sustainably", and in fact it was functioning. Even the "original" GEG comes from Merkel who was slowly pushing for a change. Then somehow someone decided they had to restrict and punish and this was our "undeserved" Habeck and friends. There was no need at all to disrupt the country into what it has become today. Literally everyone said that. Only the Scholz/Greens government didn't see that. EDIT: in fact, if we just reverted the commits to pre-2022 we'd be already in a better situation. No new changes. Just start from what was working. And well, keep the new solar panel stuff for balconies. It seems a nice idea (which a lot of countries are doing anyways, so nothing so innovative here).
  • okucu 1y ago
    How out of touch do you have to be with reality? 2+ years of recession and he was the leader we needed? He literally ruined us all
    • kharak 1y ago
      He has been well received among left-green voters, civil servants and alike. He communicated without the usual empty political phrases, that alone brought him sympathies. He also managed the Ukraine crisis well, for instance, he was involved in quickly finding alternative gas sources after one of the Nord Stream pipelines had been destroyed. I'd say he embodied the values, policies and mannerism of his electorate better than anyone else. And yet I agree with you. Economically, he disappointed through and through. Same for climate change, which ironically is at the heart of the Green party he belongs to. For example, to more conservative voters, he's will mostly remembered as the politician who wanted to bring a central planning approach into their homes, forcing everyone to install costly heat pumps, with their own money, without much regard to their specific household situation. All to achieve no effective carbon emission reduction. But to his left-green electorate, he remains sacrosanct, his critics are dismissed, often as far-right.
      • okucu 1y ago
        >he was involved in quickly finding alternative gas sources after one of the Nord Stream pipelines The very same pipeline he helped to cover that their own ally destroyed Also what the hell is your argumentation? "Actually the people who voted him, liked him" no shit. The very same people are more in favor of war than the average Nazi back in the 30s
        • kharak 1y ago
          I made no argument, merely tried to explain why he is viewed favourably by some. I could have left out the second and last paragraph, that was more about me showing that I didn’t agree with his performance either.
  • qwertox 1y ago
    What his enemies (CDU/AfD) don't mention is that even they wouldn't have been able to undo the stop. But being in the opposition must be a fun thing since you can say the most beautiful sounding things and never have to actually deliver anything. AfD even goes a step beyond raw stupidity because they want to destroy all the wind turbines. So not just stop the ones already delivering energy, but destroy them. They just don't realize that we need every bit of energy we can get. They have some donating friends which are against wind turbines, because of the looks. It was close to funny how Elon Musk held back his disagreement with the AfD regarding their wish to destroy the wind turbines. I'd go so far as to say that the only reason why Germany has the political and societal problems it has now are only due to the constrain in energy.
    • nidskee 1y ago
      That and the long running demographic issues (that one is global).
• cjpearson 1y ago
  A big factor in the quick return (and maybe one reason for its popularity) is that Germany has some of the most expensive electricity in the world. The ROI doesn't look as attractive in France, the US or Norway.
  • DennisL123 1y ago
    In the US the price varies a lot by state [1]. [1] https://www.electricchoice.com/electricity-prices-by-state/ https://www.electricchoice.com/electricity-prices-by-state/
  • jcattle 1y ago
    That is definitely a factor. But depending on your energy usage and how smart your home appliances are, you can save a lot more than 10%. I.e. if you run all your washing and most of the heating of the water tank during your own generation times you can potentially save quite a lot more than 10%.
  • morsch 1y ago
    If you break even in Germany in 3 years, you'll break even in France in 4. Maybe faster, given the differences in climate.
    • deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
  • jagermo 1y ago
    Some good points, i have a few thoughts to add. Norway: yes, they are doing fine (80% EV, btw, so it seems you can actually use EVs in colder weather... I think the nordics are actually way ahead of the rest of Europe when it comes to sustainable energy creation, with norway getting about 90% last year from Hydro - super impressive. https://lowcarbonpower.org/region/Norway https://lowcarbonpower.org/region/Norway France: I think they might turn around, because their low prices are tied to massive subsidies (that are scheduled to end in part end of 2025). And, France has the weather and sun to be even more successfull. That would however mean a decentralization of the power grid and probably storage solutions (batteries, hydro or h2), something thats complicated and not sexy to sell to the public - one of the reasons Germany is so far behind. Our grid is stuck in the past and enough company lobby politicians to keep it that way. US: it is probably less of a pricing issue and more a topic of resiliance and stabilizing the power grid. It looks like rolling blackouts in the US get more, especially during the summer months (where solar could directly be used for the AC). https://urbanclimate.gatech.edu/current-projects/blackout-tracker/ https://urbanclimate.gatech.edu/current-projects/blackout-tr... I think it would especially make sense to run your AC on if you have a flexible plan - i remember so many stories of people suddenly having to pay thousands during peak times in summer. California, Texas and most of the rust belt does have enough solar to easily get by, especially if you add a battery backup.
• weinzierl 1y ago
  "removing all the bureaucracy here" This is a bit strong, given that you still need to register with the Marktstammdatenregister and get a permit from your landlord (relevant bc homeownership rate < 50%). I think the high electricity cost has as much to do with the relative success of this than the reduced friction. On the technical side you are also limited to 800W max and if you want a battery things get complicated quickly. I will still get one probably but it is far from no bureaucracy at all and plug and play - at least not when you want a battery.
  • notTooFarGone 1y ago
    Marktstammdatenregister is online and very easy to do, Allowance from landlord is more of a formality now as they can't really deny it. Of course some try but the law is pretty clear here.
• mk89 1y ago
  So all we needed from the Greens was 1 law to simplify the installation of (small) solar panels. We got the full package and started the deindustrializion instead. Seems like a good deal :)
  • myrmidon 1y ago
    What exactly do you mean by "deindustrialization" here? What would the opposite have looked like?
• mytailorisrich 1y ago
  Not obvious that this is "good" for the environment overall, though.
  • subscribed 1y ago
    And how that would be bad, specifically? Considering Germany is still getting 30% of the electricity from the fossil fuels[1], I wonder how that would be a net negative for the environment. [1] https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-consumption-and-power-mix-charts https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-c...
    • mytailorisrich 1y ago
      Never assume. These are millions of systems imported from China, they are inefficient (because they are small and often installed in poor conditions), useful life is uncertain, they will have to be disposed of afterwards. So is this whole chain better than using the grid? I don't know but I can't assume anything just because "it's solar".
• lostlogin 1y ago
  Any chance you could post a link to the sort of setup you mean or like? I’ve searched but the deluge of crappy systems that aren’t what you mean is overwhelming results.
  • jillesvangurp 1y ago
    https://www.amazon.de/-/en/SUNNIVA-BIFAZIAL-Complete-Inverter-Bluetooth/dp/B0DCGHMLLT https://www.amazon.de/-/en/SUNNIVA-BIFAZIAL-Complete-Inverte... "SUNNIVA 920 W Balcony Power Station BIFAZIAL Full Black Complete Socket TSUN 800 W Inverter, PV Solar System, 2 x 460 W Glass/Glass Solar Modules, Includes 5 m Cable, Bluetooth WiFi, Complete Set" Literally the first result that comes back for "balcony solar panel kit". 239 Euros with 4.2 star rating and > 200 purchase in the last month. I can't vouch for this brand or kit but that's what comes up on top on amazon.de. Looks like some Chinese manufacturer, as you would expect. Plenty of pretty positive reviews in German with a few deployment photos. There are indeed a lot of solar panel related products on Amazon. It seems to be a popular product category. You might get different results from outside Germany.
    • lostlogin 1y ago
      > You might get different results from outside Germany. 100% this. Thank you. This is exactly what I was after.
• runeks 1y ago
  > If it saves 10% per month on my bill (7 euro), this would earn itself back within 3 years. Where are you getting these figures from? Is it realistic to expect it to cover 5-10% of your usage?
  • jillesvangurp 1y ago
    It's relative to my cited bill of about 70 euro, obviously. 7/30 ~= 22 cents. Or about half a kwh per day here in Germany. Per day. I think that should be feasible with a well positioned panel. You might do better on sunny days. But if you balance that against all the lesser days, I don't think it's a strange average. All back of the envelope of course. If you get six sun hours on your 800w setup, you get almost 5 kwh. That's sort of the upper range probably. Maybe on really well positioned panels you might get 10 sun hours in the summer months. Or 8 kwh. I think few people would get that. But an average 0.5kwh per day is fairly modest and adds up to about 7 euro per month. Probably too conservative but that was on purpose. I think the official figures project higher yields. Since setups are capped at 800w, the percentage depends on your monthly usage. Easier to work in absolute numbers. I think most people could shave between 7 and 20 euros per month off their bills depending on how much sun they manage to get on their panels.
    • runeks 1y ago
      Thank you for elaborating. But this assumes that you consume the power as it's produced, right? Otherwise you need a battery as well. I imagine, for example, that the power produced during weekdays while at work would go mostly unused.
• wcoenen 1y ago
  > Too bad my balcony faces east This is not necessarily a disadvantage. If you have a contract with pricing based on the 15-minute intervals of the day-ahead market ("dynamischer Stromtarif"), then the electricity price spikes in the morning and evening. Typically with such a contract, you also get this higher price for injecting power back into the grid. And the price will almost always be lower than a traditional contract outside of these spikes. A vertically oriented panel is also ideal for this scenario, because the sun will be low above the horizon when the panel is producing power in the morning. edit: after looking into a bit more, it seems in Germany you may not actually get dynamic feed-in pricing. Too bad. I assumed that this was the case, because it works like that here in Belgium.