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Are you now allowed to benchmark the .Net runtime / GC? Edit: Looks like you are allowed to benchmark the runtime now. I was able to locate an ancient EULA wh

Are you now allowed to benchmark the .Net runtime / GC? Edit: Looks like you are allowed to benchmark the runtime now. I was able to locate an ancient EULA which forbade this (see section 3.4): https://download.microsoft.com/documents/useterms/visual%20studio%20.net%20professional_2003_english_be8aa149-b0fd-494d-a902-07fdb2007b90.pdf https://download.microsoft.com/documents/useterms/visual%20s... > You may not disclose the results of any benchmark test of the .NET Framework component of the Software to any third party without Microsoft’s prior written approval.

Krutonium 1y ago
...Were you not before?
- cake-rusk 1y ago
  IIRC the EULA forbids it. This is why you don't see .net v/s Java GC comparisons for example.
  - rezonant 1y ago
    I can't find mention of anything resembling this. The .NET runtime is under the MIT license.
    - jfyi 1y ago
      https://download.microsoft.com/documents/useterms/visual%20studio%20.net%20professional_2003_english_be8aa149-b0fd-494d-a902-07fdb2007b90.pdf https://download.microsoft.com/documents/useterms/visual%20s... It's because you aren't looking at 20 year old EULA's >3.4 Benchmark Testing. The Software may contain the Microsoft .NET Framework. You may not disclose the results of any benchmark test of the .NET Framework component of the Software to any third party without Microsoft’s prior written approval. This person is not likely familiar with the history of the .net framework and .net core because they decided a long time ago they were never going to use it.
      - cake-rusk 1y ago
        Yeah, you got me there. I have moved on to Linux development since then. Haven't kept up with Microsoft developer tools.
        adzm 1y ago
        .net core on Linux works great btw.
        SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago
        In recent versions (i.e. since .NET 5 in 2020) ".NET core" is just called ".NET" The cross-platform version is mainstream, and this isn't new any more. .NET on Linux works fine for services. Our .NET services are deployed to Linux hosts, and it's completely unremarkable.
        homebrewer 1y ago
        As long as it's your deployment target and nothing else. For development, both macOS and Linux continue to be second class citizens, and I don't see this changing as it goes against their interests. In most .NET shops around me, the development and deployment tooling is so closely tied to VS that you can't really not use it. It's fine if you stick to JetBrains and pay for their IDE (or do non-commercial projects only), and either work in a shop which isn't closely tied to VS (basically non-existent in my area), or work by yourself.
        SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago
        Well, in most .NET shops around me: > The development and deployment tooling is so closely tied to VS that you can't really not use it. Development tooling: It's 50-50. Some use Visual Studio, some use Rider. It's fine. The only drawback is that VS Live Share and the Jetbrains equivalent don't interoperate. deployment tooling: There is deployment tooling tied to the IDE? No-one uses that, it seems like a poor idea. I see automated build/test/deploy pipelines in GitHib Actions, and in Octopus Deploy. TeamCity still gets used, I guess. It's true though that the most common development OS is Windows by far (with Mac as second) and the most common deployment target by far is Linux. However the fact that there is close to no friction in this dev vs deploy changeover means that the cross-platform stuff just works. At least for server-side things such as HTTP request and queue message processing. I know that the GUI toolkit story is more complex and difficult, but I don't have to deal with it at all so I don't have details or recommendations.
  - zenmac 1y ago
    Wow didn't know that. Can you provide some links?
  - Traubenfuchs 1y ago
    What are you talking about? https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/box-plot-summary-charts.html https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/...
  - magicalhippo 1y ago
    I seem to vaguely recall such a thing from way back in the early days, but the only copy[1] of the .Net Framework EULA I could readily find says it's OK as long as you publish all the details. [1]: https://docs.oracle.com/en/industries/food-beverage/micros-workstation-8/wselg/c_licenses_microsoft_dnet_redist.htm https://docs.oracle.com/en/industries/food-beverage/micros-w...
msk-lywenn 1y ago
why wouldn't you be?
aiisthefiture 1y ago
Yes.
deely3 1y ago
Yes, you probably mixed it with SQL Server. > Publishing SQL Server benchmarks without prior written approval from Microsoft is generally prohibited by the standard licensing agreements.

Krutonium 1y ago

...Were you not before?

cake-rusk 1y ago
IIRC the EULA forbids it. This is why you don't see .net v/s Java GC comparisons for example.
- rezonant 1y ago
  I can't find mention of anything resembling this. The .NET runtime is under the MIT license.
  - jfyi 1y ago
    https://download.microsoft.com/documents/useterms/visual%20studio%20.net%20professional_2003_english_be8aa149-b0fd-494d-a902-07fdb2007b90.pdf https://download.microsoft.com/documents/useterms/visual%20s... It's because you aren't looking at 20 year old EULA's >3.4 Benchmark Testing. The Software may contain the Microsoft .NET Framework. You may not disclose the results of any benchmark test of the .NET Framework component of the Software to any third party without Microsoft’s prior written approval. This person is not likely familiar with the history of the .net framework and .net core because they decided a long time ago they were never going to use it.
    - cake-rusk 1y ago
      Yeah, you got me there. I have moved on to Linux development since then. Haven't kept up with Microsoft developer tools.
      - adzm 1y ago
        .net core on Linux works great btw.
        SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago
        In recent versions (i.e. since .NET 5 in 2020) ".NET core" is just called ".NET" The cross-platform version is mainstream, and this isn't new any more. .NET on Linux works fine for services. Our .NET services are deployed to Linux hosts, and it's completely unremarkable.
        homebrewer 1y ago
        As long as it's your deployment target and nothing else. For development, both macOS and Linux continue to be second class citizens, and I don't see this changing as it goes against their interests. In most .NET shops around me, the development and deployment tooling is so closely tied to VS that you can't really not use it. It's fine if you stick to JetBrains and pay for their IDE (or do non-commercial projects only), and either work in a shop which isn't closely tied to VS (basically non-existent in my area), or work by yourself.
        SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago
        Well, in most .NET shops around me: > The development and deployment tooling is so closely tied to VS that you can't really not use it. Development tooling: It's 50-50. Some use Visual Studio, some use Rider. It's fine. The only drawback is that VS Live Share and the Jetbrains equivalent don't interoperate. deployment tooling: There is deployment tooling tied to the IDE? No-one uses that, it seems like a poor idea. I see automated build/test/deploy pipelines in GitHib Actions, and in Octopus Deploy. TeamCity still gets used, I guess. It's true though that the most common development OS is Windows by far (with Mac as second) and the most common deployment target by far is Linux. However the fact that there is close to no friction in this dev vs deploy changeover means that the cross-platform stuff just works. At least for server-side things such as HTTP request and queue message processing. I know that the GUI toolkit story is more complex and difficult, but I don't have to deal with it at all so I don't have details or recommendations.
- zenmac 1y ago
  Wow didn't know that. Can you provide some links?
- Traubenfuchs 1y ago
  What are you talking about? https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/box-plot-summary-charts.html https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/...
- magicalhippo 1y ago
  I seem to vaguely recall such a thing from way back in the early days, but the only copy[1] of the .Net Framework EULA I could readily find says it's OK as long as you publish all the details. [1]: https://docs.oracle.com/en/industries/food-beverage/micros-workstation-8/wselg/c_licenses_microsoft_dnet_redist.htm https://docs.oracle.com/en/industries/food-beverage/micros-w...

msk-lywenn 1y ago

why wouldn't you be?

aiisthefiture 1y ago

Yes.

deely3 1y ago

Yes, you probably mixed it with SQL Server. > Publishing SQL Server benchmarks without prior written approval from Microsoft is generally prohibited by the standard licensing agreements.