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> College should return to being the purview of the truly intelligent and the children of the rich, as it was for all time before WW2. You're likely correct th

> College should return to being the purview of the truly intelligent and the children of the rich, as it was for all time before WW2. You're likely correct that we're witnessing a reconsolidation of wealth and the extinction of the middle class in society, but you seem happy about this? Be careful what you wish for...

monero-xmr 1y ago
Alternatively, all middle class jobs do not require a college degree. Perhaps a college degree is primarily a signalling mechanism for adherence to a bygone era of societal norms. But the price is far too high to justify it, and the market will create alternative proof of societal norms, at a far cheaper price. Which is happening as we debate. My concern now is a large number of under-employed college graduates who are indebted to worthless degrees, feeling pinched because the debt far surpasses their market value. This has been the case for a long time, but has now reached the upper-echelons of academia where even Ivy league grads cannot get employment. You need to re-calibrate your ire to the correct target
- novemp 1y ago
  Yeah, sure, not every job should require a degree, but that doesn't justify keeping The Poors from pursuing education. Some of us value education for its own sake, not as a prerequisite for employment.
  - monero-xmr 1y ago
    You are assuming the only avenue to "education" is through the university experience
    - novemp 1y ago
      Some people learn best in structured class settings.
- sciencejerk 1y ago
  If AI and other societal shifts eliminate many white-collar jobs in developed countries, degree-seekers will eventually notice and the demand and perceived value of a college education may greatly diminish. I got my degree at a time when it was actually useful as a signalling mechanism. Now students might not benefit much from a college degree and internships might be hard to find. This is too bad and grossly unfair. I hope that new societal avenues are created to help young people start their careers, even if those careers are in fields like plumbing, nursing and hospitality. I also hope efforts are made to help white collar workers transition into other (lesser-paying) careers when AI really starts to permanently reduce the size of the white-collar workforce.
- sciencejerk 1y ago
  > You need to re-calibrate your ire to the correct target Who do you think is the correct target? Big institutions? The college system?
  - monero-xmr 1y ago
    Definitely the colleges, which charge more year after year, burdening the young with debt for worthless pieces of paper.
ares623 1y ago
They probably think they’re one of the “truly intelligent and children/parent of the rich” lol
- monero-xmr 1y ago
  I would not want the unintelligent and non-rich to go into debt to spend 4 years at a university, getting a degree in a subject which is absurd https://www.sps.nyu.edu/explore/degrees-and-programs/bs-in-hospitality-travel-and-tourism-management.html https://www.sps.nyu.edu/explore/degrees-and-programs/bs-in-h... Please, tell me how going $300k in debt for an undergraduate degree in Tourism Studies benefits society, or the student
  - ares623 1y ago
    Sounds like a US problem tbh
    - monero-xmr 1y ago
      Nearly every European university offers a degree in Tourism. The difference is regarding debt. But socializing the cost of a degree in tourism does not mean the cost isn’t born by society. I believe deep in my bones that one can learn the ropes of managing a hotel outside the illustrious grounds of a university
      - ares623 1y ago
        Tbh it just sounds like you don’t value others and others’ work that isn’t a “hard” field. Sure people can learn hotel management outside of university. But outside of nepotism who will trust random strangers with no qualifications to get their foot in the door? And you make it sound like socializing the cost of improving outcomes for the next generations as a negative. What is the point if society if not that? Even from a purely selfish perspective, The next generation will take care of me when I am too old to do it myself. I’d want them to be in a good state by then Do you think you got to wherever you are now without some part of socialized cost of society getting you there?

monero-xmr 1y ago

Alternatively, all middle class jobs do not require a college degree. Perhaps a college degree is primarily a signalling mechanism for adherence to a bygone era of societal norms. But the price is far too high to justify it, and the market will create alternative proof of societal norms, at a far cheaper price. Which is happening as we debate. My concern now is a large number of under-employed college graduates who are indebted to worthless degrees, feeling pinched because the debt far surpasses their market value. This has been the case for a long time, but has now reached the upper-echelons of academia where even Ivy league grads cannot get employment. You need to re-calibrate your ire to the correct target

novemp 1y ago
Yeah, sure, not every job should require a degree, but that doesn't justify keeping The Poors from pursuing education. Some of us value education for its own sake, not as a prerequisite for employment.
- monero-xmr 1y ago
  You are assuming the only avenue to "education" is through the university experience
  - novemp 1y ago
    Some people learn best in structured class settings.
sciencejerk 1y ago
If AI and other societal shifts eliminate many white-collar jobs in developed countries, degree-seekers will eventually notice and the demand and perceived value of a college education may greatly diminish. I got my degree at a time when it was actually useful as a signalling mechanism. Now students might not benefit much from a college degree and internships might be hard to find. This is too bad and grossly unfair. I hope that new societal avenues are created to help young people start their careers, even if those careers are in fields like plumbing, nursing and hospitality. I also hope efforts are made to help white collar workers transition into other (lesser-paying) careers when AI really starts to permanently reduce the size of the white-collar workforce.
sciencejerk 1y ago
> You need to re-calibrate your ire to the correct target Who do you think is the correct target? Big institutions? The college system?
- monero-xmr 1y ago
  Definitely the colleges, which charge more year after year, burdening the young with debt for worthless pieces of paper.

ares623 1y ago

They probably think they’re one of the “truly intelligent and children/parent of the rich” lol

monero-xmr 1y ago
I would not want the unintelligent and non-rich to go into debt to spend 4 years at a university, getting a degree in a subject which is absurd https://www.sps.nyu.edu/explore/degrees-and-programs/bs-in-hospitality-travel-and-tourism-management.html https://www.sps.nyu.edu/explore/degrees-and-programs/bs-in-h... Please, tell me how going $300k in debt for an undergraduate degree in Tourism Studies benefits society, or the student
- ares623 1y ago
  Sounds like a US problem tbh
  - monero-xmr 1y ago
    Nearly every European university offers a degree in Tourism. The difference is regarding debt. But socializing the cost of a degree in tourism does not mean the cost isn’t born by society. I believe deep in my bones that one can learn the ropes of managing a hotel outside the illustrious grounds of a university
    - ares623 1y ago
      Tbh it just sounds like you don’t value others and others’ work that isn’t a “hard” field. Sure people can learn hotel management outside of university. But outside of nepotism who will trust random strangers with no qualifications to get their foot in the door? And you make it sound like socializing the cost of improving outcomes for the next generations as a negative. What is the point if society if not that? Even from a purely selfish perspective, The next generation will take care of me when I am too old to do it myself. I’d want them to be in a good state by then Do you think you got to wherever you are now without some part of socialized cost of society getting you there?