5 ms·

In case you can share an alternate strategy to make a career in a large tech company, please do, would be interested.

by smallnix 1y ago

Trasmatta 1y ago
That's the crux. I don't want a career in a large tech company.
- the_af 1y ago
  Is working in a small tech company any different?
  - Trasmatta 1y ago
    Not really, I'd love to get out of tech entirely.
  - rjh29 1y ago
    Massively different. You generally have more autonomy, fewer managers, more responsibility and wear more hats. In my experience no corporate fake people pleasing or PR language or HR nonsense. Just regular people talking normally trying to get stuff done.
  - jcheng 1y ago
    It's SO different. It doesn't guarantee that life is good, but politics plays a much smaller role, especially at the very small sizes. If you're objectively awesome, the chances of you being sidelined for political reasons is pretty low when there are like 10 people in the whole company. It's just obvious to everyone who is delivering value and who is not. Conversely, if you're mediocre, there's nowhere to hide. Or maybe instead of saying there aren't politics at small companies, it's more accurate to say that there are politics, but they're simple--everyone strives to make the (hopefully benevolent) dictator, I mean founder, happy. If your founder is awesome, life is good. If your founder is not awesome, well, everyone is going to have a bad time anyway.
    - Aurornis 1y ago
      > but politics plays a much smaller role, especially at the very small sizes. I thoroughly believed this after working at a small company with little politics in one of my first jobs. But then a couple of the later small companies/startups I worked for had politics to such an insane degree that I no longer believe small companies are better or worse in general. They just have a larger variance. The larger the company, the more the workforce trends toward the mean. When you hire 10,000 people you can't exclusively build a company of low-politics people. With a 10-person company you technically can build that company of mostyl 1-in-100 employees who work well together. However, you could also stumble into a company where you're working with 10 people who have worked together previously and have no intention of bringing you into their inner circle. The politics at this latter type of company is truly next level hell because there's nowhere to go, unlike at a big company or FAANG where you can transfer teams or rely on your resume to get you into the application process at another company easily. > It's just obvious to everyone who is delivering value and who is not. In my experience at highly political small companies, this doesn't matter. The people running the political show want the upper echelon of the company to be composed of their close friends and allies. They want the people who produce to be stuck doing the grunt work.
    - crystal_revenge 1y ago
      > but politics plays a much smaller role This does not align with my experience at small tech companies at all, and I've worked an many. But the flavor of the politics is very different. At a small company as an IC you will very likely be working directly with multiple C-levels, often providing important context between them. A senior IC will need to be reaching out pretty actively across teams to make sure things are happening and you'll quickly build an internal network of "good people who get shit done fast". Politics can seem no existent because in some cases just getting along well with leadership can be enough to make your life very easy. But you'll see how truly political these situations are if you have the opposite situation: someone in leadership just doesn't like you. One bad relationship can ruin you in a small company. In a large company it's not too hard to just keep your head down (at least as an IC) and largely let your manager worry about politics. For managers it can seem more political because typically the "be friends with leadership" doesn't work because the hierarchy is both broader and deeper.
  - crystal_revenge 1y ago
    Wildly different. One of the biggest things at a small company is that you can wear multiple hats to solve a problem and not step on anyone's toes. Need to play PM, backend engineer and data scientist to get a product shipped fast? No problem, and you'll be seen as a person who can get things done by leadership (if you make sure to keep your work visible). The main divide I've seen between what makes people happy in one or the other style tech company is whether they really enjoy solving problems or doing their job. If you want to check in, do only what is technically required of you and get out, then big tech corp is for you. If you are mainly interested in finding solutions to problems and you are happy to employ whatever is necessary to do so, you'll have more enjoy small companies much more.
- mystifyingpoi 1y ago
  > I don't want a career in a large tech company I would swear by this when I started working in IT, but 3y later I changed job and took a gig at a big corporation. It was eye opening and jaw dropping. Everything was lightyears ahead in terms of tech, management, money, investments in people, and much more compared to the small company. It geniuinely made me mad for not doing this sooner.
  - crystal_revenge 1y ago
    Strange, I've had the opposite experience: I've mostly worked with small startups and every few job changes will try a go at a big tech company. I'm always shocked at the gap in talent between small startups and large tech companies. Far and away all of the best and most talented coworkers I've had have been at small startups. Of course there's a lot of variance among small companies (much moreso than large ones). But the one thing that all small companies have is people who can actually get shit done not matter what it requires. The amount of "not my lane" nonsense that occupies corporate life is both exhausting and boring. I understand why this exists for practical reasons, but it's no fun.
bdangubic 1y ago
you should do everything possible to make a career in a small company. after three decades as SWE it is my #1 (there is not even remotely close #2) advise for everyone in the early stages of their career
- andrew_lettuce 1y ago
  The politics in small companies are far more extreme in my experience.
- scarface_74 1y ago
  I am 51. I love small companies. My second best experience was working as the second technical hire by a then new to the company CTO who was hired to bring technical leadership into the company. The two non technical brothers who were founders outsourced the development to a consulting company until they found product market fit. But I still did the same thing the article and commenters suggested. I stayed strictly aligned with what the CTO wanted and just from that, I was able to guide the entire technical architecture of the company for two years even though I had no hands on experience with AWS. Let’s not be fooled though. My next job after that startup that had 60 people was at the second largest employer in the US - AWS working in the consulting division (AWS Professional Services). It was an immediate 50% bump in pay. An even greater contrast is that an intern I mentored got a return offer at 22 in 2022 that was the same I made at 46 in 2020. They are now at 25 making slightly more than I’m making at a medium size third party consulting company working full time as a staff consultant. Your principled stand is leaving a lot of money on the table. At 51, I would rather get a daily anal probe with a cactus than ever work at any large company again and I have turned down a position that was going to be created for me at another large well known non technical company where a former coworker was a director and ignored overtures from GCP in their professional services department that would pay a lot more. I also wouldn’t like the company I work at now with around 700 people if I weren’t brought in as a staff engineer where I have almost complete autonomy on how I lead my projects and the ear of the CxOs But let’s not pretend the extra $75K to $100K+ I could be making isn’t worth playing politics. I’m just at a place in life where I can prioritize other things than money. Also, at 51, I’ve learned a few things. Not to make your “career” at any company and to always be prepared to jump ship when the environment changes or the raises don’t keep up with the market. I’m now on my 10th job.
exodust 1y ago
The alternate strategy is loyalty to "the business" rather than any particular person. When you're invested in the success of the business above all else, and you make that known, you'll carve out a position where you're valued. Not because you went on a "carving out your importance" mission, but because your energy goes into your work, and the details and care for the long term business objectives. Also... you can then enjoy yourself more, which opens creativity which opens innovation. Sometimes this might mean disagreeing with managers or working on stuff nobody really knows you're working on right now. > "So if you want to get something technical done in a tech company, you ought to wait for the appropriate wave" No. That doesn't work. You have to start building it. Don't wait.
- YZF 1y ago
  I agree with this. That's been my take throughput my pretty long career and was a recipe for success. You still need to: 1. Be good at what you do. 2. Be good at politics/communication when that's needed. 3. Be in an organization that has good people and also cares. There are organizations where there's just a complete disconnect from the business for various reasons. Dysfunctional.
- rafaelero 1y ago
  This is a good strategy, imo. I was following it for almost a year and I was having a blast working in a startup. Then a new manager came along and started to dictate how things should be done without much input from the technical team. I kept fighting for what I thought was good for the product instead of aligning with him. In the end it was just too stressful (the manager was not only an idiot but also rude). I resigned, but I wouldn't have done any other way. I simply can't be made to do dumb things from uncurious people.
  - exodust 1y ago
    It's a shame when resigning is the only way out. Before reaching that point, the usual strategies should be attempted: Picking your battles; Negotiate rather than fight; Be better at analytics and research than anyone else. So you have the data to measure or predict success about a particular feature or direction. Armed with your data, you must carefully communicate findings without shaming others. It's a fine line between fostering a positive work environment in the face of misguided decisions, and being condescending or derisive towards other team members. There is no silver bullet, but a touch of self-deprecating humour never hurt. If you advice isn't taken, you'll have a non-snarky receipt. Any email written with an irritated tone, will look twice as bad months later.
georgeburdell 1y ago
I don’t know if it’s different, but I always carve out about a day a week to work on “skunkworks” projects that will benefit my team but that nobody has asked for yet. Then, when it does get asked for, I have a rough solution ready to go.
- smallnix 1y ago
  I think this ties very well into the advise of the article and is not orthogonal / different.

In case you can share an alternate strategy to make a career in a large tech company, please do, would be interested.

Trasmatta 1y ago

That's the crux. I don't want a career in a large tech company.

the_af 1y ago
Is working in a small tech company any different?
- Trasmatta 1y ago
  Not really, I'd love to get out of tech entirely.
- rjh29 1y ago
  Massively different. You generally have more autonomy, fewer managers, more responsibility and wear more hats. In my experience no corporate fake people pleasing or PR language or HR nonsense. Just regular people talking normally trying to get stuff done.
- jcheng 1y ago
  It's SO different. It doesn't guarantee that life is good, but politics plays a much smaller role, especially at the very small sizes. If you're objectively awesome, the chances of you being sidelined for political reasons is pretty low when there are like 10 people in the whole company. It's just obvious to everyone who is delivering value and who is not. Conversely, if you're mediocre, there's nowhere to hide. Or maybe instead of saying there aren't politics at small companies, it's more accurate to say that there are politics, but they're simple--everyone strives to make the (hopefully benevolent) dictator, I mean founder, happy. If your founder is awesome, life is good. If your founder is not awesome, well, everyone is going to have a bad time anyway.
  - Aurornis 1y ago
    > but politics plays a much smaller role, especially at the very small sizes. I thoroughly believed this after working at a small company with little politics in one of my first jobs. But then a couple of the later small companies/startups I worked for had politics to such an insane degree that I no longer believe small companies are better or worse in general. They just have a larger variance. The larger the company, the more the workforce trends toward the mean. When you hire 10,000 people you can't exclusively build a company of low-politics people. With a 10-person company you technically can build that company of mostyl 1-in-100 employees who work well together. However, you could also stumble into a company where you're working with 10 people who have worked together previously and have no intention of bringing you into their inner circle. The politics at this latter type of company is truly next level hell because there's nowhere to go, unlike at a big company or FAANG where you can transfer teams or rely on your resume to get you into the application process at another company easily. > It's just obvious to everyone who is delivering value and who is not. In my experience at highly political small companies, this doesn't matter. The people running the political show want the upper echelon of the company to be composed of their close friends and allies. They want the people who produce to be stuck doing the grunt work.
  - crystal_revenge 1y ago
    > but politics plays a much smaller role This does not align with my experience at small tech companies at all, and I've worked an many. But the flavor of the politics is very different. At a small company as an IC you will very likely be working directly with multiple C-levels, often providing important context between them. A senior IC will need to be reaching out pretty actively across teams to make sure things are happening and you'll quickly build an internal network of "good people who get shit done fast". Politics can seem no existent because in some cases just getting along well with leadership can be enough to make your life very easy. But you'll see how truly political these situations are if you have the opposite situation: someone in leadership just doesn't like you. One bad relationship can ruin you in a small company. In a large company it's not too hard to just keep your head down (at least as an IC) and largely let your manager worry about politics. For managers it can seem more political because typically the "be friends with leadership" doesn't work because the hierarchy is both broader and deeper.
- crystal_revenge 1y ago
  Wildly different. One of the biggest things at a small company is that you can wear multiple hats to solve a problem and not step on anyone's toes. Need to play PM, backend engineer and data scientist to get a product shipped fast? No problem, and you'll be seen as a person who can get things done by leadership (if you make sure to keep your work visible). The main divide I've seen between what makes people happy in one or the other style tech company is whether they really enjoy solving problems or doing their job. If you want to check in, do only what is technically required of you and get out, then big tech corp is for you. If you are mainly interested in finding solutions to problems and you are happy to employ whatever is necessary to do so, you'll have more enjoy small companies much more.
mystifyingpoi 1y ago
> I don't want a career in a large tech company I would swear by this when I started working in IT, but 3y later I changed job and took a gig at a big corporation. It was eye opening and jaw dropping. Everything was lightyears ahead in terms of tech, management, money, investments in people, and much more compared to the small company. It geniuinely made me mad for not doing this sooner.
- crystal_revenge 1y ago
  Strange, I've had the opposite experience: I've mostly worked with small startups and every few job changes will try a go at a big tech company. I'm always shocked at the gap in talent between small startups and large tech companies. Far and away all of the best and most talented coworkers I've had have been at small startups. Of course there's a lot of variance among small companies (much moreso than large ones). But the one thing that all small companies have is people who can actually get shit done not matter what it requires. The amount of "not my lane" nonsense that occupies corporate life is both exhausting and boring. I understand why this exists for practical reasons, but it's no fun.

bdangubic 1y ago

you should do everything possible to make a career in a small company. after three decades as SWE it is my #1 (there is not even remotely close #2) advise for everyone in the early stages of their career

andrew_lettuce 1y ago
The politics in small companies are far more extreme in my experience.
scarface_74 1y ago
I am 51. I love small companies. My second best experience was working as the second technical hire by a then new to the company CTO who was hired to bring technical leadership into the company. The two non technical brothers who were founders outsourced the development to a consulting company until they found product market fit. But I still did the same thing the article and commenters suggested. I stayed strictly aligned with what the CTO wanted and just from that, I was able to guide the entire technical architecture of the company for two years even though I had no hands on experience with AWS. Let’s not be fooled though. My next job after that startup that had 60 people was at the second largest employer in the US - AWS working in the consulting division (AWS Professional Services). It was an immediate 50% bump in pay. An even greater contrast is that an intern I mentored got a return offer at 22 in 2022 that was the same I made at 46 in 2020. They are now at 25 making slightly more than I’m making at a medium size third party consulting company working full time as a staff consultant. Your principled stand is leaving a lot of money on the table. At 51, I would rather get a daily anal probe with a cactus than ever work at any large company again and I have turned down a position that was going to be created for me at another large well known non technical company where a former coworker was a director and ignored overtures from GCP in their professional services department that would pay a lot more. I also wouldn’t like the company I work at now with around 700 people if I weren’t brought in as a staff engineer where I have almost complete autonomy on how I lead my projects and the ear of the CxOs But let’s not pretend the extra $75K to $100K+ I could be making isn’t worth playing politics. I’m just at a place in life where I can prioritize other things than money. Also, at 51, I’ve learned a few things. Not to make your “career” at any company and to always be prepared to jump ship when the environment changes or the raises don’t keep up with the market. I’m now on my 10th job.

exodust 1y ago

The alternate strategy is loyalty to "the business" rather than any particular person. When you're invested in the success of the business above all else, and you make that known, you'll carve out a position where you're valued. Not because you went on a "carving out your importance" mission, but because your energy goes into your work, and the details and care for the long term business objectives. Also... you can then enjoy yourself more, which opens creativity which opens innovation. Sometimes this might mean disagreeing with managers or working on stuff nobody really knows you're working on right now. > "So if you want to get something technical done in a tech company, you ought to wait for the appropriate wave" No. That doesn't work. You have to start building it. Don't wait.

YZF 1y ago
I agree with this. That's been my take throughput my pretty long career and was a recipe for success. You still need to: 1. Be good at what you do. 2. Be good at politics/communication when that's needed. 3. Be in an organization that has good people and also cares. There are organizations where there's just a complete disconnect from the business for various reasons. Dysfunctional.
rafaelero 1y ago
This is a good strategy, imo. I was following it for almost a year and I was having a blast working in a startup. Then a new manager came along and started to dictate how things should be done without much input from the technical team. I kept fighting for what I thought was good for the product instead of aligning with him. In the end it was just too stressful (the manager was not only an idiot but also rude). I resigned, but I wouldn't have done any other way. I simply can't be made to do dumb things from uncurious people.
- exodust 1y ago
  It's a shame when resigning is the only way out. Before reaching that point, the usual strategies should be attempted: Picking your battles; Negotiate rather than fight; Be better at analytics and research than anyone else. So you have the data to measure or predict success about a particular feature or direction. Armed with your data, you must carefully communicate findings without shaming others. It's a fine line between fostering a positive work environment in the face of misguided decisions, and being condescending or derisive towards other team members. There is no silver bullet, but a touch of self-deprecating humour never hurt. If you advice isn't taken, you'll have a non-snarky receipt. Any email written with an irritated tone, will look twice as bad months later.

georgeburdell 1y ago

I don’t know if it’s different, but I always carve out about a day a week to work on “skunkworks” projects that will benefit my team but that nobody has asked for yet. Then, when it does get asked for, I have a rough solution ready to go.

smallnix 1y ago
I think this ties very well into the advise of the article and is not orthogonal / different.