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That's probably their strategy of handling 402 Payment Required[1]. They want to become the platform over which auctions for AI crawlers buying rights to use co

That's probably their strategy of handling 402 Payment Required[1]. They want to become the platform over which auctions for AI crawlers buying rights to use content take place. Scary if it works out their way and Cloudflare becomes an even bigger giant. [1] https://developer.mozilla.org/de/docs/Web/HTTP/Reference/Status/402 https://developer.mozilla.org/de/docs/Web/HTTP/Reference/Sta...

Orochikaku 1y ago
English version of the docs[1] since the version linked above is in German. [1] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Reference/Status/402 https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Reference/...
NicoJuicy 1y ago
Cloudflare only has a market cap of ~75 b. So there a plenty of bigger giants out there.
- thunfischbrot 1y ago
  I am trying to understand the direction of your comment. It seems to respond to > Scary if it works out their way and Cloudflare becomes an even bigger giant. Are you proposing that you do not share OPs sentiment, since there are larger companies?
  - NicoJuicy 1y ago
    2 sided. - Cloudflare is smaller in market cap than you would think, they are not "big tech" as to how I would consider it - have been them following for years and there is nothing atm. that would indicate of them being "evil"
    - whatshisface 1y ago
      Cloudflare is creating a massive single nexus for future corruption at the hands of an oppressive government or "active investors" to impact almost everyone.
      - NicoJuicy 1y ago
        They would mean the end of US tech dominance globally. Azure, AWS, Meta and probably even Alphabet
        whatshisface 1y ago
        Huh? Cloudflare is a Delaware company, same as the ones you listed.
        thrown-0825-1 1y ago
        Plenty of german companies supplied the nazis and survived ww2.
jgalt212 1y ago
> Scary if it works out their way and Cloudflare becomes an even bigger giant. As opposed to all the other giants. Clouflare is the only one with the heft to take on Google, AWS, Azure, etc.
- sssilver 1y ago
  What is the conceptual difference between Cloudflare and the companies in that list? We all love a David vs Goliath story, but haven’t we learned anything after buying the “Don’t Be Evil” bullshit?
  - bix6 1y ago
    There is no difference if you go and look at Cloudflares major shareholders.
    - jgalt212 1y ago
      You could say the same for any company in the sp500.
      - bix6 1y ago
        Correct and then in the private markets it’s 5 big groups. Sounds like we have a problem here!
  - jgalt212 1y ago
    They are taking on monopolists.
    - nicbou 1y ago
      In their bid to build a bigger monopoly themselves.
      - jgalt212 1y ago
        Creative Destruction in action. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_destruction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_destruction
miohtama 1y ago
Some the benefit of using stablecoins are 1) they do not need user accounts set up for payments, so easier for machine to machine (AI agent can manage its own money) 2) they work everywhere not just in credit card rich countries 3) security profile is different (no credit card fraud) Of course Cloudflare is riding the stablecoin hype here a bit. At least they are large enough they might be pull this off
- disgruntledphd2 1y ago
  > Some the benefit of using stablecoins are 1) they do not need user accounts set up for payments, so easier for machine to machine (AI agent can manage its own money) 2) they work everywhere not just in credit card rich countries 3) security profile is different (no credit card fraud) Just to note, that Cloudflare is a public company which means that they have both internal and external auditors. They definitely need to worry about fraud, but the first two things they need to worry about are sanctions screening (don't do business with the four countries the US doesn't like) and AML (anti-money laundering). Stablecoins are a potentially huge vector for this kind of badness, so it would be unwise for Cloudflare to try to yolo this (but they probably will, because almost all tech companies try to work with finance this way).
  - miohtama 1y ago
    Stablecoins are well established now, having regulation both in the US and in the EU to address risks, including sanctions. They are used by several public companies including Stripe, PayPal and Shopify.
    - disgruntledphd2 1y ago
      Stablecoins are, but it's the interaction of crypto with fiat that could lead to problems. Like, I hope this doesn't happen but I find it hard to believe that there won't be a concerted effort to get around AML using cyrpto.
  - trenchpilgrim 1y ago
    > sanctions screening (don't do business with the four countries the US doesn't like) Not just countries; a changing list of organizations and individuals as well.
nucleative 1y ago
This reminded me of Gates' "The Road Ahead" book (late 90s if I recall) prediction that marketers would eventually be able to pay a dime to get an email in your inbox, if only the future economy could figure out micro-transactions. I agree with you that we're moving away from banner ads to some novel way of monetizing traffic, and therefore content published by authentic human beings.
- Razengan 1y ago
  What if people could choose to donate their devices' computing power in return for some Netcoin or whatever?
  - immibis 1y ago
    You can do this. Several services pay you real money (not much) in exchange for letting AI scrapers use you as a proxy. It's completely legal (AFAIK).
    - Razengan 1y ago
      Not my internet connection, just the CPU/GPU/RAM, just when it's charging, and so on Or those could be separate options
- junto 1y ago
  Back in the late 90’s we were at a tipping point of how to monetize the world wide web. It turned out that selling advertising was way easier than figuring out micropayments. Advertising turned into a billions of dollar business. Facebook then turned the World Wide Web into a snooping platform. We then moved into a global propaganda engine on a mass scale. I wonder if micropayments had been solved before taking the easy route, we would have been in a much more healthy global scenario today.

Orochikaku 1y ago

English version of the docs[1] since the version linked above is in German. [1] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Reference/Status/402 https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Reference/...

NicoJuicy 1y ago

Cloudflare only has a market cap of ~75 b. So there a plenty of bigger giants out there.

thunfischbrot 1y ago
I am trying to understand the direction of your comment. It seems to respond to > Scary if it works out their way and Cloudflare becomes an even bigger giant. Are you proposing that you do not share OPs sentiment, since there are larger companies?
- NicoJuicy 1y ago
  2 sided. - Cloudflare is smaller in market cap than you would think, they are not "big tech" as to how I would consider it - have been them following for years and there is nothing atm. that would indicate of them being "evil"
  - whatshisface 1y ago
    Cloudflare is creating a massive single nexus for future corruption at the hands of an oppressive government or "active investors" to impact almost everyone.
    - NicoJuicy 1y ago
      They would mean the end of US tech dominance globally. Azure, AWS, Meta and probably even Alphabet
      - whatshisface 1y ago
        Huh? Cloudflare is a Delaware company, same as the ones you listed.
      - thrown-0825-1 1y ago
        Plenty of german companies supplied the nazis and survived ww2.

jgalt212 1y ago

> Scary if it works out their way and Cloudflare becomes an even bigger giant. As opposed to all the other giants. Clouflare is the only one with the heft to take on Google, AWS, Azure, etc.

sssilver 1y ago
What is the conceptual difference between Cloudflare and the companies in that list? We all love a David vs Goliath story, but haven’t we learned anything after buying the “Don’t Be Evil” bullshit?
- bix6 1y ago
  There is no difference if you go and look at Cloudflares major shareholders.
  - jgalt212 1y ago
    You could say the same for any company in the sp500.
    - bix6 1y ago
      Correct and then in the private markets it’s 5 big groups. Sounds like we have a problem here!
- jgalt212 1y ago
  They are taking on monopolists.
  - nicbou 1y ago
    In their bid to build a bigger monopoly themselves.
    - jgalt212 1y ago
      Creative Destruction in action. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_destruction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_destruction

miohtama 1y ago

Some the benefit of using stablecoins are 1) they do not need user accounts set up for payments, so easier for machine to machine (AI agent can manage its own money) 2) they work everywhere not just in credit card rich countries 3) security profile is different (no credit card fraud) Of course Cloudflare is riding the stablecoin hype here a bit. At least they are large enough they might be pull this off

disgruntledphd2 1y ago
> Some the benefit of using stablecoins are 1) they do not need user accounts set up for payments, so easier for machine to machine (AI agent can manage its own money) 2) they work everywhere not just in credit card rich countries 3) security profile is different (no credit card fraud) Just to note, that Cloudflare is a public company which means that they have both internal and external auditors. They definitely need to worry about fraud, but the first two things they need to worry about are sanctions screening (don't do business with the four countries the US doesn't like) and AML (anti-money laundering). Stablecoins are a potentially huge vector for this kind of badness, so it would be unwise for Cloudflare to try to yolo this (but they probably will, because almost all tech companies try to work with finance this way).
- miohtama 1y ago
  Stablecoins are well established now, having regulation both in the US and in the EU to address risks, including sanctions. They are used by several public companies including Stripe, PayPal and Shopify.
  - disgruntledphd2 1y ago
    Stablecoins are, but it's the interaction of crypto with fiat that could lead to problems. Like, I hope this doesn't happen but I find it hard to believe that there won't be a concerted effort to get around AML using cyrpto.
- trenchpilgrim 1y ago
  > sanctions screening (don't do business with the four countries the US doesn't like) Not just countries; a changing list of organizations and individuals as well.

nucleative 1y ago

This reminded me of Gates' "The Road Ahead" book (late 90s if I recall) prediction that marketers would eventually be able to pay a dime to get an email in your inbox, if only the future economy could figure out micro-transactions. I agree with you that we're moving away from banner ads to some novel way of monetizing traffic, and therefore content published by authentic human beings.

Razengan 1y ago
What if people could choose to donate their devices' computing power in return for some Netcoin or whatever?
- immibis 1y ago
  You can do this. Several services pay you real money (not much) in exchange for letting AI scrapers use you as a proxy. It's completely legal (AFAIK).
  - Razengan 1y ago
    Not my internet connection, just the CPU/GPU/RAM, just when it's charging, and so on Or those could be separate options
junto 1y ago
Back in the late 90’s we were at a tipping point of how to monetize the world wide web. It turned out that selling advertising was way easier than figuring out micropayments. Advertising turned into a billions of dollar business. Facebook then turned the World Wide Web into a snooping platform. We then moved into a global propaganda engine on a mass scale. I wonder if micropayments had been solved before taking the easy route, we would have been in a much more healthy global scenario today.