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C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 1y ago
Because it doesn't move the situation any closer to liberation of their people and their homeland. They have been willing to constantly fight, and constantly keep getting killed by an enemy with overwhelming advantages, for their cause for two years now. Why would you assume that being able to escape with their lives is suddenly more important to them?
- Ray20 1y ago
  > doesn't move the situation any closer to liberation of their people and their homeland. From Hamas?
  - chimineycricket 1y ago
    From the people killing them in places where Hamas has no control and building illegal settlements on their land.
    - FridayoLeary 1y ago
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      - lejalv 1y ago
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    - RS-232 1y ago
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      - abrenuntio 1y ago
        No. The Bible says nothing about a European secular nationalist movement called Zionism. Certainly nothing positive.
      - VerminOctopus1 1y ago
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- myth_drannon 1y ago
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  - nielsbot 1y ago
    The Israelis (and their suppliers) are the ones with the power to end it. They have chosen this. There are actually other avenues you know. This is entirely on them.
    - myth_drannon 1y ago
      What do you mean? Trump's plan to end the war, Israel has accepted it. Now Palestinians will probably refuse it. Why refuse the end of the war and the "genocide"? It's like they demanded a country, but when the country was offered multiple times, they refused it because what they actually want is to destroy Israel and not build their own country.
      - nielsbot 1y ago
        Which offers?
    - oytis 1y ago
      Like, not at all? They tried to withdraw from Gaza, and preferred to educate their population on living under daily rocket attacks just to avoid waging a war in Gaza. It all dragged on with no hope for a permanent peace and culminated in the October massacre. Hamas on the other hand does indeed have the power to end it all - if not with all their dreams and wishes being fulfilled - which is a pretty outrageous expectation for the losing party
      - Hikikomori 1y ago
        Weird how you are commenting like Israel is some western democracy when they're run by Zionist extremists that have the goal of taking over the area.
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- flyinglizard 1y ago
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  - C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 1y ago
    Rhodesia was "destroyed", and the outcome was for the better. Apartheid South Africa was "destroyed", and the outcome was for the better. French Algeria was "destroyed", and the outcome was for the better. When Israel gets similarly "destroyed", and it is no longer a supremacist colonial state, and the people who remain are living with equal rights, it will be for the better. Everyone other than colonists and white supremacists understand this. If yoru country was colonized by outside invaders, you would understand anti-colonial struggle perfectly well.
    - flyinglizard 1y ago
      What an interesting historical stretch to call Jews "invaders" in Israel, when the entire place is riddled with Jewish history and artefacts dating back thousands of years. While Rhodesia and South Africa were colonial experiments by people with no prior connection to Africa, that's not the case with Israel. Since the onset of told history there were Jews in that area.
      - C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 1y ago
        Yes, many thousands of years ago the land was populated by Jewish peoples. Then Romans sacked Jerusalem and kicked them all out. The Eastern Roman empire never reversed that ban. After the muslim conquest of Levant in about 630 AD, caliph Umar ibn al-Khattab lifted the Christian ban on Jews entering Jerusalem some time later during his reign. After a millenium of mixing and slow but gradual conversion to the dominant socio-cultural muslim group, we know that the Jewish population of Palestine at the time (1917) that the British government initiated the process of handing over Palestine to jews in return for Lord Rothschild's money that they needed to keep fighting WW1 [1], was only about 7%. Subsequent immigration of mostly European jews into Palestine, resulted in about 30% jewish population by the time Western powers decided to declare an independent Jewish-dominated state of Israel on top of Palestine in 1947. The vast majority of the current jewish population of Israel are absolutely foreign invaders and their second or third generation descendants. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration
- oytis 1y ago
  I mean, it moves the situation closer to not living in war and famine? Also the idea of amnesty to all Hamas members looks pretty generous to me - Nazis didn't enjoy the same privilege
  - C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 1y ago
    > I mean, it moves the situation closer to not living in war and famine? And then what? Look at the West Bank to see what happens when you don't resist the occupation and fully cooperate with the colonial state. You get slowly cleansed anyway. > Also the idea of amnesty to all Hamas members looks pretty generous to me Israel specializes in assassinations and has a history of relentlessly pursuing those it deems its enemies. If you were a Hamas fighter, your choice would be to either die fighting for a purpose, or be killed in exile without a purpose anymore.
    - oytis 1y ago
      Settler violence in the West Bank sure sucks, but in my opinion less than Hamas regime and war in Gaza, both for Israelis and Palestinians. Valid point for the safety of Hamas members though, would be hard to come up with an arrangement that convinces them that they are going to be safe
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > They have been willing to constantly fight, and constantly keep getting killed by an enemy with overwhelming advantages, for their cause for two years now Hamas has. If you put this deal to a plebescite in Gaza, do you really think they'd vote for more war?
  - C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 1y ago
    Yes, Hamas (and all the other resistance factions that are active in Gaza). The question I responded to was: "why is Hamas refusing a peace deal that ends all this and lets them escape with their lives?" My answer was perfectly within the scope of the original question.
  - LinXitoW 1y ago
    If you gave the jewish resistance in Nazi Germany the same deal, would you be just as suprised if they continued to fight for total freedom?
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > If you gave the jewish resistance in Nazi Germany the same deal, would you be just as suprised if they continued to fight for total freedom? Yes? Just so I understand the hypothetical, the Jewish resistance in Nazi Germany (not really a singular thing, but I'll read this as the French Resistance and ghetto leaders) are offered amnesty, i.e. an end to the Holocaust, in exchange for literally anything? Why wouldn't they take it? It's literally a choice between life and death. And again, it gives time for regrouping, clear thinking, rallying support. Turning it down seems to scream that the offer, in this hypothetical an end to the Holocaust, in our timeline a ceasefire, isn't actually that important. At that point, both sides are choosing to fight. European Jews didn't choose the Holocaust. I don't think Palestinians are choosing this war, but if they turned down a peace deal, they by definition are.
- stale2002 1y ago
  > They have been willing to constantly fight, and constantly keep getting killed by an enemy Thats not true at all. Most people in palestine do not want to throw their lives away for nothing. Most of them want peace. Its only Hamas that would apparently prefer to get killed and have gaza be flattened instead of accepting peace.
  - C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 1y ago
    The question I responded to was: "why is Hamas refusing a peace deal that ends all this and lets them escape with their lives?" Your responding that what I wrote is "not true at all" makes no sense in the context.
justin66 1y ago
> why is Hamas refusing a peace deal They're psychotic idiots. > lets them escape with their lives On the other hand: how idiotic would they have to be to believe the Israelis will let them escape with their lives, given all the evidence to the contrary?
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tsimionescu 1y ago
Killing 736 Israeli civilians, 79 foreign nationals, and 379 Israeli military and security personnel, and kidnapping an additional 250 civilians is not, by any fathomable definition, genocide. It is a war crime for sure, but it's not genocide. Edit: the post I was replying to was claiming Hamas/the Palestinians perpetrated a genocide in Israel. It has since been edited to be a completely different thing.
- starik36 1y ago
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- tzs 1y ago
  I think you are mixing up genocide and the acts that are committed in furtherance of genocide. Genocide is legally a set of acts committed with the intent to destroy a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. So yes, what Hamas did on Oct 7 was not genocide, and similarly what Israel does on any given day in Gaza is not genocide. Rather they are both part of ongoing campaigns that arguably are genocide.
  - tsimionescu 1y ago
    This is patent absurdity. What Hamas did on October 7th was an atrocity and a war crime. Many of the perpetrators, and of Hamas military leadership, would be very happy to be able to commit genocide against the people of Israel, and maybe even Jewish people in general. However, there's no such thing as "unsuccessful genocide". Wanting to commit genocide and even terrorist bombings which target the population you'd like to exterminate are not genocide. To be committing the crime of genocide, you have to actually be in a position where you are actively displacing or exterminating a population. Israel is committing genocide in Gaza since October 7th, because they are actively working towards a goal of eliminating the Palestinian population from the Gaza territory, or at least from the majority of it. They have already achieved a part of the genocide. They're not going all scorched earth and killing by the millions for the same reason they're not launching one of their illegal nukes in Gaza: they fear international reaction if the move is too sudden and overwhelming. Hamas, by contrast, is not committing genocide in Israel, because it's not actively killing or starving or displacing any part of the population of Israel. I'm sure Hamas would love to do that, but it's a simple obvious fact that they're not succeeding. This is like claiming that Al Qaeda has an ongoing campaign of genocide of the West, because of 9/11 and some other attacks on, say, British troops.
catlikesshrimp 1y ago
You are honestly blaming the killing of 60,000+ Palestinians on Hamas for not accepting a Peace Deal (Israel didn't honor the last one months ago) only? Assume it is a hostage situation, 2,000,000 Hostages. Israel has killed 60,000+ hostages trying to rescue hostages. Starvation also counts as killings to me, but I supposed "Starved" is less direct than "Shot"
BriggyDwiggs42 1y ago
Isn’t it true that some of the leadership doesn’t live in gaza at all?
- lupire 1y ago
  Yes, that's who was bombed in Qatar. They do some finances and politics but aren't involved in running Gaza or the military/militants.
  - BriggyDwiggs42 1y ago
    Then it makes a lot of sense they might fear for their life less than the militants actually trapped in gaza
- esafak 1y ago
  Yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_leaders_of_Hamas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_leaders_of_Hamas
- Vosporos 1y ago
  Leadership of the political organisation, not all. However the military branch's leadership is/was in Gaza (like Yahya Sinwar and others who were killed)
  - BriggyDwiggs42 1y ago
    Ah okay
moogly 1y ago
> a peace deal that ends all this Netanyahu, Smotrich and Ben-Gvir do not want this peace deal either. There is 0 chance it would be honored.
- starik36 1y ago
  Netanyahu signed on. I am asking why Hamas won't accept it.
  - tsimionescu 1y ago
    When Israel has broken all of the previous peace deals, you would have to be deeply idiotic to accept one brokered by Trump of all people.
  - mk89 1y ago
    It would make Hamas entirely useless, how could they accept it?
  - lejalv 1y ago
    That's not true, if you’re referring to the Trump plan, as he contradicted one of the main points upon return to Israel. He selectively backed some part of it, which is not really “signing” on the same plan that was offered to other parties. Also, what value has Netanyahu’s word? I mean, after blowing up a truce unilaterally, after killing negotiators, after all the corruption reckoning that is coming to him if/when out of office...
    - starik36 1y ago
      I asked why Hamas won't accept it. You immediately divert and avoid answering.
  - moogly 1y ago
    It amazes me how anyone can believe Netanyahu's theatrics at this point.
    - 1y ago
duxup 1y ago
Has there been a peace deal that ends any of this for long?
- starik36 1y ago
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  - lejalv 1y ago
    That is, technically, at odds with the truth, and morally, a transparent attempt at misinformation, please read the comments above you, or use “the internet”.
    - starik36 1y ago
      That is both technically and practically not "the truth". In fact, it's diametrically opposite of the truth. There is a plan. The only reason for Hamas to not accept it is because they want to continue the war and prolong suffering.
- mupuff1234 1y ago
  Hamas and Israel only had ceasefire deals from what I recall, not an actual peace deal.
sirfz 1y ago
The party refusing any kind of deal are Israel since their goal is annihilation of Palestinians. Hamas were ready from day one for a deal, their goal (contrary to israeli narrative of course) was to negotiate prisoner exchange for the 1000s of Palesitnian prisoners held by israel (including children). This is still their goal along with ceasefire and complete withdrawal from Gaza.
- starik36 1y ago
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  - buyucu 1y ago
    Israel just tried to murder the negotiators in Qatar who were supposedly working towards a ceasefire. Israel is the one opposing a ceasefire.
    - SilverElfin 1y ago
      > the negotiators in Qatar who were supposedly working towards a ceasefire Supposedly is the key word. Qatar has urged Hamas to accept Trump’s ceasefire terms publicly. But let’s not forget they welcomed and housed Hamas’s leaders, and funded them, for a long time prior to today. Qatar has a history of supporting other terror groups as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_and_state-sponsored_terrorism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_and_state-sponsored_terr...
      - buyucu 1y ago
        Israel is a terror group.
- SilverElfin 1y ago
  > The party refusing any kind of deal are Israel since their goal is annihilation of Palestinians First, there is no such thing as a Palestinian - that’s a made up identity to falsely claim the region as their own. Second, there have been five two-state solution offers in the past, that Israel was ready to accept. Leaders on the other side refused. Third, Hamas is not accepting the current deal that is on the table, and is incredibly fair (given the lopsided hostage/prisoner release that favors Hamas). Fourth, Israel had already withdrawn from Gaza - that was the status quo when Hamas got elected and began a decades long campaign of terrorism - remember the literal thousands of rocket attacks on Israel? Fifth, if Israel’s goal is the “annihilation of Palestinians”, why are the 20% of Israel’s population that would identify as such doing so well? Clearly this isn’t their goal, but just misinformation.
Ozzie_osman 1y ago
Whenever they've tried to agree to any peace deals in the past, what ends up happening is they make concessions and then Netanyahu turns around and resumes the war anyway.
monocasa 1y ago
Because Netanyahu is already saying he wouldn't comply with the deal that he's already agreed to, and isn't treating it as a peace deal. > While Netanyahu agreed to the plan on Monday, he already appears to be pushing back on several of its terms. > In a video posted on X, he insisted that the IDF would would be able to remain in parts of the territory and that Israel would 'forcibly resist' the establishment of a Palestinian state. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15156091/Hamas-military-chief-WONT-accept-Trumps-peace-plan-continue-fight-Israel-Gaza.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15156091/Hamas-mili...
machina_ex_deus 1y ago
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- dang 1y ago
  > They do not value their own lives [...] If the Palestinians valued their own lives You can't post slurs like this to HN, no matter which people you have a problem with. No more of this, please, regardless of how divisive the topic and how justified the strong feelings about it are. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html (Edit: yes, we moderate HN the same way regardless of which population is being slurred) Edit 2: please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45454073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45454073 also. You went even further over the line in that case.
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- slowturtle 1y ago
  > Israel values the lives of their hostages above all else and will try to rescue them no matter the cost. Then why did the Israelis violate the ceasefire in March earlier this year, after they refused to move on to the second phase which would've seen the release of more of the hostages? They broke the ceasefire by killing 400 Palestinians in one day, including over 200 children. [0] Conveniently Netanyahu used it as an excuse to get out of a court appearance for his corruption trial the next day. [0] https://apnews.com/live/latest-updates-israel-launches-new-wave-of-airstrikes-across-gaza-after-ceasefire-talks-stall https://apnews.com/live/latest-updates-israel-launches-new-w... [1] https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahus-testimony-in-graft-trial-canceled-for-the-day-amid-shock-gaza-offensive/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahus-testimony-in-graft-...
- VerminOctopus1 1y ago
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slowturtle 1y ago
Probably because Israel violated the ceasefire earlier this year (that was a sham from the beginning) that lasted from January to March. The first phase of the ceasefire saw an exchange of hostages, but then the Israelis refused to move on to the second phase and broke the ceasefire by bombing Gaza in the middle of the night, killing over 400 Palestinians in one day, including over 200 children. [0] Not to mention the fact that Israel just killed a top Hamas negotiator in Doha, Qatar only a few weeks ago. [1] How can you negotiate with someone who just killed your negotiator? [0] https://apnews.com/live/latest-updates-israel-launches-new-wave-of-airstrikes-across-gaza-after-ceasefire-talks-stall https://apnews.com/live/latest-updates-israel-launches-new-w... [1] https://apnews.com/article/qatar-explosion-doha-e319dd51b170161372442831a8023db5 https://apnews.com/article/qatar-explosion-doha-e319dd51b170...
- usaar333 1y ago
  That wasn't a ceasefire violation. It was a six week ceasefire that had expired at the beginning of March
- jameshilliard 1y ago
  > Probably because Israel violated the ceasefire earlier this year (that was a sham from the beginning) that lasted from January to March. The first phase of the ceasefire saw an exchange of hostages, but then the Israelis refused to move on to the second phase and broke the ceasefire by bombing Gaza in the middle of the night, killing over 400 Palestinians in one day, including over 200 children. Israel has been rather consistent that a permanent ceasefire will only happen when Hamas effectively surrenders and gives up power. Hamas had also refused to continue releasing hostages which effectively ended the ceasefire(as the terms of the second phase were never finalized). > Not to mention the fact that Israel just killed a top Hamas negotiator in Doha, Qatar only a few weeks ago. [1] How can you negotiate with someone who just killed your negotiator? I suppose when attempting to negotiate the surrender of Hamas if the negotiators refuse to surrender after having clearly lost a war they started then eliminating the current negotiators may result in their replacements being more likely to capitulate. That seemed to work out with Hezbollah at least.
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realusername 1y ago
Why would the answer to this question matter in any way? It's not a war anymore, wars are between armies, not civilians.
chollida1 1y ago
I can't believe I'm weighing in on a political thread, but the "deal" is very one sided. It offers very little for the Palestinians in terms of creating their own country and ability to self govern and gives Israel pretty much everything they want including some control over Palestine. The current "peace deal" is terrible for the Palestinians. No other country would sign it either.
- jameshilliard 1y ago
  > the "deal" is very one sided This is pretty much one should expect when one starts and loses a war, same as with the surrender of Nazi Germany and the Japanese at the end of WW2. > The current "peace deal" is terrible for the Palestinians. No other country would sign it either. It's a surrender agreement effectively, it's certainly not a peace deal amongst equal parties.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > This is pretty much one should expect when one starts and loses a war, same as with the surrender of Nazi Germany and the Japanese at the end of WW2 You're being downvoted, but this is pretty much it. Gaza gets peace out of the deal. That's about all they have left to negotiate for.
  - istjohn 1y ago
    The indigenous people of Palestine did not start this conflict. They did not choose to be colonized by Jews fleeing persecution in Eastern Europe.
    - HDThoreaun 1y ago
      Yes they did. The jews were ready to accept the UN plan in 47. If the palestinains agreed the nakba would have been the end of this conflict. Instead the Palestinians chose governments that attacked israel. Even when Israel left gaza after the second intifada the gazans continued to launch rockets at tel aviv.
oytis 1y ago
Cause they are islamists and have nothing against turning all of Gaza's population into "martyrs"?
LinXitoW 1y ago
Well, hows the "peace" in the West Bank, where there's no Hamas? Israel has proven in both the West Bank AND Gaza that they do not care whether you violently resist or you attempt to be peaceful. You WILL BE REMOVED from your land, dispossessed of everything you own, because growing the Israeli people is more important than your life, your rights, your anything.

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Because it doesn't move the situation any closer to liberation of their people and their homeland. They have been willing to constantly fight, and constantly keep getting killed by an enemy with overwhelming advantages, for their cause for two years now. Why would you assume that being able to escape with their lives is suddenly more important to them?

Ray20 1y ago
> doesn't move the situation any closer to liberation of their people and their homeland. From Hamas?
- chimineycricket 1y ago
  From the people killing them in places where Hamas has no control and building illegal settlements on their land.
  - FridayoLeary 1y ago
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    - lejalv 1y ago
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  - RS-232 1y ago
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    - abrenuntio 1y ago
      No. The Bible says nothing about a European secular nationalist movement called Zionism. Certainly nothing positive.
    - VerminOctopus1 1y ago
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myth_drannon 1y ago
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- nielsbot 1y ago
  The Israelis (and their suppliers) are the ones with the power to end it. They have chosen this. There are actually other avenues you know. This is entirely on them.
  - myth_drannon 1y ago
    What do you mean? Trump's plan to end the war, Israel has accepted it. Now Palestinians will probably refuse it. Why refuse the end of the war and the "genocide"? It's like they demanded a country, but when the country was offered multiple times, they refused it because what they actually want is to destroy Israel and not build their own country.
    - nielsbot 1y ago
      Which offers?
  - oytis 1y ago
    Like, not at all? They tried to withdraw from Gaza, and preferred to educate their population on living under daily rocket attacks just to avoid waging a war in Gaza. It all dragged on with no hope for a permanent peace and culminated in the October massacre. Hamas on the other hand does indeed have the power to end it all - if not with all their dreams and wishes being fulfilled - which is a pretty outrageous expectation for the losing party
    - Hikikomori 1y ago
      Weird how you are commenting like Israel is some western democracy when they're run by Zionist extremists that have the goal of taking over the area.
      - 1y ago
flyinglizard 1y ago
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- C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 1y ago
  Rhodesia was "destroyed", and the outcome was for the better. Apartheid South Africa was "destroyed", and the outcome was for the better. French Algeria was "destroyed", and the outcome was for the better. When Israel gets similarly "destroyed", and it is no longer a supremacist colonial state, and the people who remain are living with equal rights, it will be for the better. Everyone other than colonists and white supremacists understand this. If yoru country was colonized by outside invaders, you would understand anti-colonial struggle perfectly well.
  - flyinglizard 1y ago
    What an interesting historical stretch to call Jews "invaders" in Israel, when the entire place is riddled with Jewish history and artefacts dating back thousands of years. While Rhodesia and South Africa were colonial experiments by people with no prior connection to Africa, that's not the case with Israel. Since the onset of told history there were Jews in that area.
    - C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 1y ago
      Yes, many thousands of years ago the land was populated by Jewish peoples. Then Romans sacked Jerusalem and kicked them all out. The Eastern Roman empire never reversed that ban. After the muslim conquest of Levant in about 630 AD, caliph Umar ibn al-Khattab lifted the Christian ban on Jews entering Jerusalem some time later during his reign. After a millenium of mixing and slow but gradual conversion to the dominant socio-cultural muslim group, we know that the Jewish population of Palestine at the time (1917) that the British government initiated the process of handing over Palestine to jews in return for Lord Rothschild's money that they needed to keep fighting WW1 [1], was only about 7%. Subsequent immigration of mostly European jews into Palestine, resulted in about 30% jewish population by the time Western powers decided to declare an independent Jewish-dominated state of Israel on top of Palestine in 1947. The vast majority of the current jewish population of Israel are absolutely foreign invaders and their second or third generation descendants. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration
oytis 1y ago
I mean, it moves the situation closer to not living in war and famine? Also the idea of amnesty to all Hamas members looks pretty generous to me - Nazis didn't enjoy the same privilege
- C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 1y ago
  > I mean, it moves the situation closer to not living in war and famine? And then what? Look at the West Bank to see what happens when you don't resist the occupation and fully cooperate with the colonial state. You get slowly cleansed anyway. > Also the idea of amnesty to all Hamas members looks pretty generous to me Israel specializes in assassinations and has a history of relentlessly pursuing those it deems its enemies. If you were a Hamas fighter, your choice would be to either die fighting for a purpose, or be killed in exile without a purpose anymore.
  - oytis 1y ago
    Settler violence in the West Bank sure sucks, but in my opinion less than Hamas regime and war in Gaza, both for Israelis and Palestinians. Valid point for the safety of Hamas members though, would be hard to come up with an arrangement that convinces them that they are going to be safe
JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> They have been willing to constantly fight, and constantly keep getting killed by an enemy with overwhelming advantages, for their cause for two years now Hamas has. If you put this deal to a plebescite in Gaza, do you really think they'd vote for more war?
- C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 1y ago
  Yes, Hamas (and all the other resistance factions that are active in Gaza). The question I responded to was: "why is Hamas refusing a peace deal that ends all this and lets them escape with their lives?" My answer was perfectly within the scope of the original question.
- LinXitoW 1y ago
  If you gave the jewish resistance in Nazi Germany the same deal, would you be just as suprised if they continued to fight for total freedom?
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > If you gave the jewish resistance in Nazi Germany the same deal, would you be just as suprised if they continued to fight for total freedom? Yes? Just so I understand the hypothetical, the Jewish resistance in Nazi Germany (not really a singular thing, but I'll read this as the French Resistance and ghetto leaders) are offered amnesty, i.e. an end to the Holocaust, in exchange for literally anything? Why wouldn't they take it? It's literally a choice between life and death. And again, it gives time for regrouping, clear thinking, rallying support. Turning it down seems to scream that the offer, in this hypothetical an end to the Holocaust, in our timeline a ceasefire, isn't actually that important. At that point, both sides are choosing to fight. European Jews didn't choose the Holocaust. I don't think Palestinians are choosing this war, but if they turned down a peace deal, they by definition are.
stale2002 1y ago
> They have been willing to constantly fight, and constantly keep getting killed by an enemy Thats not true at all. Most people in palestine do not want to throw their lives away for nothing. Most of them want peace. Its only Hamas that would apparently prefer to get killed and have gaza be flattened instead of accepting peace.
- C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 1y ago
  The question I responded to was: "why is Hamas refusing a peace deal that ends all this and lets them escape with their lives?" Your responding that what I wrote is "not true at all" makes no sense in the context.

justin66 1y ago

> why is Hamas refusing a peace deal They're psychotic idiots. > lets them escape with their lives On the other hand: how idiotic would they have to be to believe the Israelis will let them escape with their lives, given all the evidence to the contrary?

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tsimionescu 1y ago

Killing 736 Israeli civilians, 79 foreign nationals, and 379 Israeli military and security personnel, and kidnapping an additional 250 civilians is not, by any fathomable definition, genocide. It is a war crime for sure, but it's not genocide. Edit: the post I was replying to was claiming Hamas/the Palestinians perpetrated a genocide in Israel. It has since been edited to be a completely different thing.

starik36 1y ago
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tzs 1y ago
I think you are mixing up genocide and the acts that are committed in furtherance of genocide. Genocide is legally a set of acts committed with the intent to destroy a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. So yes, what Hamas did on Oct 7 was not genocide, and similarly what Israel does on any given day in Gaza is not genocide. Rather they are both part of ongoing campaigns that arguably are genocide.
- tsimionescu 1y ago
  This is patent absurdity. What Hamas did on October 7th was an atrocity and a war crime. Many of the perpetrators, and of Hamas military leadership, would be very happy to be able to commit genocide against the people of Israel, and maybe even Jewish people in general. However, there's no such thing as "unsuccessful genocide". Wanting to commit genocide and even terrorist bombings which target the population you'd like to exterminate are not genocide. To be committing the crime of genocide, you have to actually be in a position where you are actively displacing or exterminating a population. Israel is committing genocide in Gaza since October 7th, because they are actively working towards a goal of eliminating the Palestinian population from the Gaza territory, or at least from the majority of it. They have already achieved a part of the genocide. They're not going all scorched earth and killing by the millions for the same reason they're not launching one of their illegal nukes in Gaza: they fear international reaction if the move is too sudden and overwhelming. Hamas, by contrast, is not committing genocide in Israel, because it's not actively killing or starving or displacing any part of the population of Israel. I'm sure Hamas would love to do that, but it's a simple obvious fact that they're not succeeding. This is like claiming that Al Qaeda has an ongoing campaign of genocide of the West, because of 9/11 and some other attacks on, say, British troops.

catlikesshrimp 1y ago

You are honestly blaming the killing of 60,000+ Palestinians on Hamas for not accepting a Peace Deal (Israel didn't honor the last one months ago) only? Assume it is a hostage situation, 2,000,000 Hostages. Israel has killed 60,000+ hostages trying to rescue hostages. Starvation also counts as killings to me, but I supposed "Starved" is less direct than "Shot"

BriggyDwiggs42 1y ago

Isn’t it true that some of the leadership doesn’t live in gaza at all?

lupire 1y ago
Yes, that's who was bombed in Qatar. They do some finances and politics but aren't involved in running Gaza or the military/militants.
- BriggyDwiggs42 1y ago
  Then it makes a lot of sense they might fear for their life less than the militants actually trapped in gaza
esafak 1y ago
Yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_leaders_of_Hamas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_leaders_of_Hamas
Vosporos 1y ago
Leadership of the political organisation, not all. However the military branch's leadership is/was in Gaza (like Yahya Sinwar and others who were killed)
- BriggyDwiggs42 1y ago
  Ah okay

moogly 1y ago

> a peace deal that ends all this Netanyahu, Smotrich and Ben-Gvir do not want this peace deal either. There is 0 chance it would be honored.

starik36 1y ago
Netanyahu signed on. I am asking why Hamas won't accept it.
- tsimionescu 1y ago
  When Israel has broken all of the previous peace deals, you would have to be deeply idiotic to accept one brokered by Trump of all people.
- mk89 1y ago
  It would make Hamas entirely useless, how could they accept it?
- lejalv 1y ago
  That's not true, if you’re referring to the Trump plan, as he contradicted one of the main points upon return to Israel. He selectively backed some part of it, which is not really “signing” on the same plan that was offered to other parties. Also, what value has Netanyahu’s word? I mean, after blowing up a truce unilaterally, after killing negotiators, after all the corruption reckoning that is coming to him if/when out of office...
  - starik36 1y ago
    I asked why Hamas won't accept it. You immediately divert and avoid answering.
- moogly 1y ago
  It amazes me how anyone can believe Netanyahu's theatrics at this point.
  - 1y ago

duxup 1y ago

Has there been a peace deal that ends any of this for long?

starik36 1y ago
[flagged]
- lejalv 1y ago
  That is, technically, at odds with the truth, and morally, a transparent attempt at misinformation, please read the comments above you, or use “the internet”.
  - starik36 1y ago
    That is both technically and practically not "the truth". In fact, it's diametrically opposite of the truth. There is a plan. The only reason for Hamas to not accept it is because they want to continue the war and prolong suffering.
mupuff1234 1y ago
Hamas and Israel only had ceasefire deals from what I recall, not an actual peace deal.

sirfz 1y ago

The party refusing any kind of deal are Israel since their goal is annihilation of Palestinians. Hamas were ready from day one for a deal, their goal (contrary to israeli narrative of course) was to negotiate prisoner exchange for the 1000s of Palesitnian prisoners held by israel (including children). This is still their goal along with ceasefire and complete withdrawal from Gaza.

starik36 1y ago
[flagged]
- sirfz 1y ago
  [flagged]
- buyucu 1y ago
  Israel just tried to murder the negotiators in Qatar who were supposedly working towards a ceasefire. Israel is the one opposing a ceasefire.
  - SilverElfin 1y ago
    > the negotiators in Qatar who were supposedly working towards a ceasefire Supposedly is the key word. Qatar has urged Hamas to accept Trump’s ceasefire terms publicly. But let’s not forget they welcomed and housed Hamas’s leaders, and funded them, for a long time prior to today. Qatar has a history of supporting other terror groups as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_and_state-sponsored_terrorism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_and_state-sponsored_terr...
    - buyucu 1y ago
      Israel is a terror group.
SilverElfin 1y ago
> The party refusing any kind of deal are Israel since their goal is annihilation of Palestinians First, there is no such thing as a Palestinian - that’s a made up identity to falsely claim the region as their own. Second, there have been five two-state solution offers in the past, that Israel was ready to accept. Leaders on the other side refused. Third, Hamas is not accepting the current deal that is on the table, and is incredibly fair (given the lopsided hostage/prisoner release that favors Hamas). Fourth, Israel had already withdrawn from Gaza - that was the status quo when Hamas got elected and began a decades long campaign of terrorism - remember the literal thousands of rocket attacks on Israel? Fifth, if Israel’s goal is the “annihilation of Palestinians”, why are the 20% of Israel’s population that would identify as such doing so well? Clearly this isn’t their goal, but just misinformation.

Ozzie_osman 1y ago

Whenever they've tried to agree to any peace deals in the past, what ends up happening is they make concessions and then Netanyahu turns around and resumes the war anyway.

monocasa 1y ago

Because Netanyahu is already saying he wouldn't comply with the deal that he's already agreed to, and isn't treating it as a peace deal. > While Netanyahu agreed to the plan on Monday, he already appears to be pushing back on several of its terms. > In a video posted on X, he insisted that the IDF would would be able to remain in parts of the territory and that Israel would 'forcibly resist' the establishment of a Palestinian state. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15156091/Hamas-military-chief-WONT-accept-Trumps-peace-plan-continue-fight-Israel-Gaza.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15156091/Hamas-mili...

machina_ex_deus 1y ago

[flagged]

dang 1y ago
> They do not value their own lives [...] If the Palestinians valued their own lives You can't post slurs like this to HN, no matter which people you have a problem with. No more of this, please, regardless of how divisive the topic and how justified the strong feelings about it are. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html (Edit: yes, we moderate HN the same way regardless of which population is being slurred) Edit 2: please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45454073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45454073 also. You went even further over the line in that case.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
slowturtle 1y ago
> Israel values the lives of their hostages above all else and will try to rescue them no matter the cost. Then why did the Israelis violate the ceasefire in March earlier this year, after they refused to move on to the second phase which would've seen the release of more of the hostages? They broke the ceasefire by killing 400 Palestinians in one day, including over 200 children. [0] Conveniently Netanyahu used it as an excuse to get out of a court appearance for his corruption trial the next day. [0] https://apnews.com/live/latest-updates-israel-launches-new-wave-of-airstrikes-across-gaza-after-ceasefire-talks-stall https://apnews.com/live/latest-updates-israel-launches-new-w... [1] https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahus-testimony-in-graft-trial-canceled-for-the-day-amid-shock-gaza-offensive/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahus-testimony-in-graft-...
VerminOctopus1 1y ago
[flagged]

slowturtle 1y ago

Probably because Israel violated the ceasefire earlier this year (that was a sham from the beginning) that lasted from January to March. The first phase of the ceasefire saw an exchange of hostages, but then the Israelis refused to move on to the second phase and broke the ceasefire by bombing Gaza in the middle of the night, killing over 400 Palestinians in one day, including over 200 children. [0] Not to mention the fact that Israel just killed a top Hamas negotiator in Doha, Qatar only a few weeks ago. [1] How can you negotiate with someone who just killed your negotiator? [0] https://apnews.com/live/latest-updates-israel-launches-new-wave-of-airstrikes-across-gaza-after-ceasefire-talks-stall https://apnews.com/live/latest-updates-israel-launches-new-w... [1] https://apnews.com/article/qatar-explosion-doha-e319dd51b170161372442831a8023db5 https://apnews.com/article/qatar-explosion-doha-e319dd51b170...

usaar333 1y ago
That wasn't a ceasefire violation. It was a six week ceasefire that had expired at the beginning of March
jameshilliard 1y ago
> Probably because Israel violated the ceasefire earlier this year (that was a sham from the beginning) that lasted from January to March. The first phase of the ceasefire saw an exchange of hostages, but then the Israelis refused to move on to the second phase and broke the ceasefire by bombing Gaza in the middle of the night, killing over 400 Palestinians in one day, including over 200 children. Israel has been rather consistent that a permanent ceasefire will only happen when Hamas effectively surrenders and gives up power. Hamas had also refused to continue releasing hostages which effectively ended the ceasefire(as the terms of the second phase were never finalized). > Not to mention the fact that Israel just killed a top Hamas negotiator in Doha, Qatar only a few weeks ago. [1] How can you negotiate with someone who just killed your negotiator? I suppose when attempting to negotiate the surrender of Hamas if the negotiators refuse to surrender after having clearly lost a war they started then eliminating the current negotiators may result in their replacements being more likely to capitulate. That seemed to work out with Hezbollah at least.
- 1y ago

realusername 1y ago

Why would the answer to this question matter in any way? It's not a war anymore, wars are between armies, not civilians.

chollida1 1y ago

I can't believe I'm weighing in on a political thread, but the "deal" is very one sided. It offers very little for the Palestinians in terms of creating their own country and ability to self govern and gives Israel pretty much everything they want including some control over Palestine. The current "peace deal" is terrible for the Palestinians. No other country would sign it either.

jameshilliard 1y ago
> the "deal" is very one sided This is pretty much one should expect when one starts and loses a war, same as with the surrender of Nazi Germany and the Japanese at the end of WW2. > The current "peace deal" is terrible for the Palestinians. No other country would sign it either. It's a surrender agreement effectively, it's certainly not a peace deal amongst equal parties.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > This is pretty much one should expect when one starts and loses a war, same as with the surrender of Nazi Germany and the Japanese at the end of WW2 You're being downvoted, but this is pretty much it. Gaza gets peace out of the deal. That's about all they have left to negotiate for.
- istjohn 1y ago
  The indigenous people of Palestine did not start this conflict. They did not choose to be colonized by Jews fleeing persecution in Eastern Europe.
  - HDThoreaun 1y ago
    Yes they did. The jews were ready to accept the UN plan in 47. If the palestinains agreed the nakba would have been the end of this conflict. Instead the Palestinians chose governments that attacked israel. Even when Israel left gaza after the second intifada the gazans continued to launch rockets at tel aviv.

oytis 1y ago

Cause they are islamists and have nothing against turning all of Gaza's population into "martyrs"?

LinXitoW 1y ago

Well, hows the "peace" in the West Bank, where there's no Hamas? Israel has proven in both the West Bank AND Gaza that they do not care whether you violently resist or you attempt to be peaceful. You WILL BE REMOVED from your land, dispossessed of everything you own, because growing the Israeli people is more important than your life, your rights, your anything.