4 ms·

I don't want to motivate anyone to switch back to Windows (because Microsoft), but for anyone who doesn't want to or can't switch, but also doesn't want to endu

by wobfan 1y ago

I don't want to motivate anyone to switch back to Windows (because Microsoft), but for anyone who doesn't want to or can't switch, but also doesn't want to endure Microsoft's chosen way of entirely ignoring user needs but instead focusing on squeezing money out of them through ads and the collection of user data in Windows 10 and 11, check out the Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC version! It's still supported 'til 2031 iirc. Plus, as it's meant to Enterprises and IoT systems, it's stripped from all the ads, bloatware, and what not. When I installed it first one year ago, I was just sad that I didn't know it earlier. It's everything I ever wanted Windows to be: lean, fast, and (somewhat) minimalistic, at least compared to stock Windows 10. Can't 100% say whether Windows 11 IoT LTSC is equally good, but from what I've read it also is worth considering.

happymellon 1y ago
The fact that this is even brought up as a solution really speaks to how bad Windows is. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/evaluate-windows-11-iot-enterprise-ltsc https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/evaluate-windows-... > after you install Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC Evaluation, you won't be able to use the recovery partition on your PC to go back to your previous version of Windows. Yikes.
- e4m2 1y ago
  You're "supposed" to acquire LTSC through non-official means, not using the evaluation ISO.
  - happymellon 1y ago
    So the only way to use Windows, is to use a version that's designed for IoT, and only available through enterprise channels? It's really selling itself...
- privatelypublic 1y ago
  That's routine. Windows generally ends up nuking the OEM partitions if you do golden installs.
- Lammy 1y ago
  > after you install Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC Evaluation, you won't be able to use the recovery partition on your PC to go back to your previous version of Windows. I was already sold; you don't have to convince me.
  - xdavidliu 1y ago
    this is the meme you want: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/harry-you-dont-need-to-sell-it-to-me https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/harry-you-dont-need-to-sell-i...
    - Lammy 1y ago
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNOa5Uvjpwo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNOa5Uvjpwo
- em-bee 1y ago
  The fact that this is even brought up as a solution really speaks to how bad Windows is. i was going to say something similar. the fact that a version of windows that is designed for IoT devises is still usable as a desktop is absolutely ridiculous. imagine using OpenWRT as a desktop...
  - e4m2 1y ago
    It's not designed for IoT devices per se, the naming is just terrible. A comparison to OpenWrt is not warranted here, although to reiterate, the naming is terrible.
    - em-bee 1y ago
      but IoT is one of the use cases it is designed for, isn't it? regardless of the naming, suggesting to use a desktop system for IoT is ridiculous. the comparison to OpenWRT is warranted, if microsoft expects me to run this system on devices that i would otherwise run OpenWRT on.
    - sznio 1y ago
      >It's not designed for IoT devices per se, the naming is just terrible. IoT was the buzzword of the year when W10 released.
    - thewebguyd 1y ago
      Yeah, bad naming is all it is. In a way, it is for "IoT" devices...but enterprisey things. Where I work we have it on a few devices that I guess you could call an "IoT" device. Unattended driver kiosks for truck scales, manufacturing equipment that requires windows, industrial control panels, etc. That's what it is for. A lot of this stuff uses really old software, some of which the vendor doesn't even exist anymore, and it only runs on Windows so these control panels and devices need windows (unless you manage to get some of it working on wine but that's usually not viable in these cases). So yeah, it's supposed to be a full desktop, because these devices often require it to some extent, albeit a little slimmed down and LTS. I think HN would be surprised to learn just how many devices run windows out there in the world outside of silicon valley. Windows is everywhere you'd hope never to see it running at.
- ahakki 1y ago
  That's a bit harsh. The recovery partition has some value. But in an OS reinstall scenario Windows.old is a much more helpful feature. However, these features won't used by someone installing Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC Evaluation (Evaluation just means that it's 90 day free trial version). This is because to aquire the non-trial version of the OS you must either be willing to license Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC from Microsoft, or crack the activation. If you crack Windows you do not need the 90 day free trial! And any company which has institutional knowledge of what an LTSC edition is, is capable of running the 90 day trial in a non destructive way (pro tip: put your new OS on a new drive and keep your old drive in a drawer). Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC is the best version of Windows 11 I have ever tried, no contest.
SpecialistK 1y ago
My theory is that Microsoft offers LTSC IoT in part as a bone to throw the vocal complainants (read: people who use HN) - and that the terrible name is to dissuade standard users. I just reinstalled my own system with a combination of LTSC and Linux (currently looking at a riced Hyprland on CachyOS) with the understanding that there will be occasional annoyances (but still less so than consumer W11)
kristianp 1y ago
I haven't used it, but is Win 11 Pro ad-free?
- greycol 1y ago
  Pro isn't ad-free by default. With appropriate regedits/privacy scripts/tools you can make it ad-free until an update inevitably reverts/"upgrades" some part of it. It's not hard to maintain it in this state but you are fighting against what microsoft wants the OS to be when you do this.
  - add-sub-mul-div 1y ago
    I've never had a Windows update revert anything like that. I turned this stuff off 3 years ago and haven't had to do anything since. I think this is just FUD that people earnestly believe and repeat because it sounds like something they think Microsoft would do.
    - pxmpxm 1y ago
      Every upgrade you have have to go back and turn/GPO off various Copilot, MSN ads-in-your-start-menu and MSFT Rewards (the f that even is?) things. Same thing for Edge; drove me back to firefox.
    - greycol 1y ago
      An easy example, if you haven't already try going to GPO and enable 'Computer Configuration>Start Menu and Taskbar>Remove Recommended Section from Start Menu' then restart your computer. Open the start menu and be amazed that people weren't actually complaining about FUD as you witness a nice fossilized example of updates superseding users previous choices. You can hunt out the other newer superseding settings (good luck without a 3rd party script or guide as you won't find required settings and steps to remove it in any MS docs just scattered parts) and eventually neuter the recommended section again... possibly as you suggest forever or possibly until an update touches this again.
Krssst 1y ago
Can a legitimate LTSC licence be bought by a standard user? I couldn't manage it and instead had to resort to Windows Server 2025. It is a tiny bit of a mess to setup on gaming computers because of lack of drivers (for the drivers which cannot be downloaded from the manufacturer site, need to get a Windows 11 install, let it download/install all the drivers as needed, then use pnputil to export them and import them in Windows Server) but I did manage to find a likely-legitimate seller (referenced on the Microsoft website as a partner) selling licenses for legitimate-looking prices. The price goes up with the amount of cores, happy I didn't have a Threadripper. Also some issues here and there (such as needing a registry change to enable clipboard history, Meta Link not supporting showing the desktop or headset audio (could maybe use the pnputil trick for that)) that I didn't have with the LTSC evaluation.

by wobfan 1y ago

happymellon 1y ago

The fact that this is even brought up as a solution really speaks to how bad Windows is. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/evaluate-windows-11-iot-enterprise-ltsc https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/evaluate-windows-... > after you install Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC Evaluation, you won't be able to use the recovery partition on your PC to go back to your previous version of Windows. Yikes.

e4m2 1y ago
You're "supposed" to acquire LTSC through non-official means, not using the evaluation ISO.
- happymellon 1y ago
  So the only way to use Windows, is to use a version that's designed for IoT, and only available through enterprise channels? It's really selling itself...
privatelypublic 1y ago
That's routine. Windows generally ends up nuking the OEM partitions if you do golden installs.
Lammy 1y ago
> after you install Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC Evaluation, you won't be able to use the recovery partition on your PC to go back to your previous version of Windows. I was already sold; you don't have to convince me.
- xdavidliu 1y ago
  this is the meme you want: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/harry-you-dont-need-to-sell-it-to-me https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/harry-you-dont-need-to-sell-i...
  - Lammy 1y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNOa5Uvjpwo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNOa5Uvjpwo
em-bee 1y ago
The fact that this is even brought up as a solution really speaks to how bad Windows is. i was going to say something similar. the fact that a version of windows that is designed for IoT devises is still usable as a desktop is absolutely ridiculous. imagine using OpenWRT as a desktop...
- e4m2 1y ago
  It's not designed for IoT devices per se, the naming is just terrible. A comparison to OpenWrt is not warranted here, although to reiterate, the naming is terrible.
  - em-bee 1y ago
    but IoT is one of the use cases it is designed for, isn't it? regardless of the naming, suggesting to use a desktop system for IoT is ridiculous. the comparison to OpenWRT is warranted, if microsoft expects me to run this system on devices that i would otherwise run OpenWRT on.
  - sznio 1y ago
    >It's not designed for IoT devices per se, the naming is just terrible. IoT was the buzzword of the year when W10 released.
  - thewebguyd 1y ago
    Yeah, bad naming is all it is. In a way, it is for "IoT" devices...but enterprisey things. Where I work we have it on a few devices that I guess you could call an "IoT" device. Unattended driver kiosks for truck scales, manufacturing equipment that requires windows, industrial control panels, etc. That's what it is for. A lot of this stuff uses really old software, some of which the vendor doesn't even exist anymore, and it only runs on Windows so these control panels and devices need windows (unless you manage to get some of it working on wine but that's usually not viable in these cases). So yeah, it's supposed to be a full desktop, because these devices often require it to some extent, albeit a little slimmed down and LTS. I think HN would be surprised to learn just how many devices run windows out there in the world outside of silicon valley. Windows is everywhere you'd hope never to see it running at.
ahakki 1y ago
That's a bit harsh. The recovery partition has some value. But in an OS reinstall scenario Windows.old is a much more helpful feature. However, these features won't used by someone installing Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC Evaluation (Evaluation just means that it's 90 day free trial version). This is because to aquire the non-trial version of the OS you must either be willing to license Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC from Microsoft, or crack the activation. If you crack Windows you do not need the 90 day free trial! And any company which has institutional knowledge of what an LTSC edition is, is capable of running the 90 day trial in a non destructive way (pro tip: put your new OS on a new drive and keep your old drive in a drawer). Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC is the best version of Windows 11 I have ever tried, no contest.

SpecialistK 1y ago

My theory is that Microsoft offers LTSC IoT in part as a bone to throw the vocal complainants (read: people who use HN) - and that the terrible name is to dissuade standard users. I just reinstalled my own system with a combination of LTSC and Linux (currently looking at a riced Hyprland on CachyOS) with the understanding that there will be occasional annoyances (but still less so than consumer W11)

kristianp 1y ago

I haven't used it, but is Win 11 Pro ad-free?

greycol 1y ago
Pro isn't ad-free by default. With appropriate regedits/privacy scripts/tools you can make it ad-free until an update inevitably reverts/"upgrades" some part of it. It's not hard to maintain it in this state but you are fighting against what microsoft wants the OS to be when you do this.
- add-sub-mul-div 1y ago
  I've never had a Windows update revert anything like that. I turned this stuff off 3 years ago and haven't had to do anything since. I think this is just FUD that people earnestly believe and repeat because it sounds like something they think Microsoft would do.
  - pxmpxm 1y ago
    Every upgrade you have have to go back and turn/GPO off various Copilot, MSN ads-in-your-start-menu and MSFT Rewards (the f that even is?) things. Same thing for Edge; drove me back to firefox.
  - greycol 1y ago
    An easy example, if you haven't already try going to GPO and enable 'Computer Configuration>Start Menu and Taskbar>Remove Recommended Section from Start Menu' then restart your computer. Open the start menu and be amazed that people weren't actually complaining about FUD as you witness a nice fossilized example of updates superseding users previous choices. You can hunt out the other newer superseding settings (good luck without a 3rd party script or guide as you won't find required settings and steps to remove it in any MS docs just scattered parts) and eventually neuter the recommended section again... possibly as you suggest forever or possibly until an update touches this again.

Krssst 1y ago

Can a legitimate LTSC licence be bought by a standard user? I couldn't manage it and instead had to resort to Windows Server 2025. It is a tiny bit of a mess to setup on gaming computers because of lack of drivers (for the drivers which cannot be downloaded from the manufacturer site, need to get a Windows 11 install, let it download/install all the drivers as needed, then use pnputil to export them and import them in Windows Server) but I did manage to find a likely-legitimate seller (referenced on the Microsoft website as a partner) selling licenses for legitimate-looking prices. The price goes up with the amount of cores, happy I didn't have a Threadripper. Also some issues here and there (such as needing a registry change to enable clipboard history, Meta Link not supporting showing the desktop or headset audio (could maybe use the pnputil trick for that)) that I didn't have with the LTSC evaluation.