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What would you suggest the minority party do? Democrats control 0 / 3 of the branches of federal government. And a minority of state governments. All they ca

What would you suggest the minority party do? Democrats control 0 / 3 of the branches of federal government. And a minority of state governments. All they can do is talk. And filibuster in the Senate. And they did filibuster the budget.... And the Trump administration has updated web pages with statements that explictly blame the Democrats for the current shutdown. And mandated OOO messages from furloughed agencies contain language blaming the Democrats. Do you want Democrats in Congress to resort to violence? I don't think ends the way you want...

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> What would you suggest the minority party do? Obstruct. Shamelessly. Governors should be arresting ICE agents illegally detaining their citizens. Democrat states generate federal tax surpluses—gum up those payments. Filibuster everything. You know, the stuff the GOP does.
- rapind 1y ago
  This is unfortunately probably going to be necessary, and should start happening soon while they still have any power. It's been going on like this for decades, since Gingrich IMO. It feels like the idealism of some on the left is failing to understand the prisoner's dilemma, and so they just keep losing. There's probably as many or more people from centre right to far left who'd be just as interested in sticking it to the right (let's just call it MAGA), as the right has been interested in owning the libs. I get that the election says otherwise, but I have a hunch that MAGA isn't nearly as popular as they think they are. I suspect a lot of people are just tired of the wet noodle Kumbaya politics from some on the left, upset with the status quo, really upset with the economy, etc. Do you ever come back from this though? No idea...
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > the idealism of some on the left I’m generally critical of the left. But this is one game they got right. It’s imbeciles hiding behind the cowardice of aimless moderation who are sinking America. The left is ready to fight. > Do you ever come back from this Yes. See: Andrew Jackson. The American Whigs. The British Whigs. The New Deal. What you don’t get back from is a lack of opposition. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/29/us/politics/russell-vought-trump-budget.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/29/us/politics/russell-vough...
    - rapind 1y ago
      > The left is ready to fight. I hope you're right. By idealism, I meant not fighting dirty. There's this moral superiority / higher ground thing with some politicians, that while I admire it, I doubt it's the right attitude for the moment. For example, the retaliatory gerrymandering proposed by some democratic states is the right response IMO, as horrible as gerrymandering is. In fact, they should probably stop apologizing for it and just take a page from MAGA and sell it as "sticking it to MAGA" instead of calling it a necessary evil.
      - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > There's this moral superiority / higher ground thing with some politicians Honestly, whom? Because I mostly see cowardice being draped in morality.
        rapind 1y ago
        Maybe I'm being too generous then. I suspect it's a mix of both and I'm even a little cynical that there are plenty on the left who secretly like this new age of grift. /shrug
      - pibb_xtra_ 1y ago
        > For example, the retaliatory gerrymandering proposed by some democratic states is the right response Is it, this is just a hunch, but I’d imagine Texas or Ohio republicans stand to gain a lot more from redistributing districts than democrats in California do.
        JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > this is just a hunch There is a lot of informed vote counting on this question. Going off a hunch is unnecessary. Commenting off it a waste of time.
        pseudalopex 1y ago
  - pibb_xtra_ 1y ago
    Enlightenment era philosophy is dying. Powerful people are rejecting it in favor of more darwinian ideas of society (maybe not directly Darwinian) that will allow them to consolidate their personal power. The democrats are simply too weak willed and divided to survive in that environment.
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > Enlightenment era philosophy is dying. Powerful people are rejecting it in favor of more darwinian ideas of society What Enlightenment-era philosophy? (Political civility is not an Enlightenment value. If anything, it was the opposite.)
  - colechristensen 1y ago
    >It feels like the idealism of some on the left is failing to understand the prisoner's dilemma, and so they just keep losing. The "idealism" of the left is increasingly just bigotry. There is a small set of people and problems they like and a large set they dislike or are simply disinterested in. This becomes indistinguishable from fascists who seek racial superiority for a particular group. It's not there yet but it's certainly going in a direction. The left hates the south, hates poor white people, hates rural people, hates men. The left is comfortable with open expression of this hatred. The left has a severe sense of "we know better than you" superiority and confusion as to why folks "vote against their own self interest". The left forgot that they made most of their societal progress by slowly normalizing things instead of loudly shoving changes in people's faces. The left wants to fight a culture war and when they win something they look for more things to be angry about accelerating divisiveness instead of slowing it down. The left doesn't want everyone to just be people, they've grown increasingly obsessed with categorizing people and then demanding performative celebration of new categories, you can't just be a person you've got to have a collection of adjectives. The active left are mostly bored people who want to fight for other people's problems and feel inadequate letting those people do it for themselves. The bigotry and divisiveness of both active sides of the political spectrum are becoming indistinguishable, the silent majority is leaderless. There is no one standing up rejecting both extremes arguing for sanity, rationality, and fairness. Liberté, égalité, fraternité should be the goals we're fighting for In the Weimar Republic there was the Iron Front with this flag with three arrows representing opposition to monarchy, fascism, and communism and what we need is some modern version of this opposed to the divisiveness, authoritarianism, and rejection of reason common across the political spectrum of America. We need the center to unite and reject both poles and return to a sense of individual thought and decision-making in our leaders instead of one thought per party.
- dh2022 1y ago
  GOP does not do anything you mentioned. Democrats are filibustering pretty much all they can do - with no shame (and kudos to them for the lack of shame). About detaining ICE agents and not sending withheld federal taxes to Washington - this will happen only if the Democrat states would separate from the Union. Which I really wish would happen. Unfortunately the Union will not break because both separating parties would have to split national debt and nuclear arsenal. So we (Democratic states) are stuck with the deplorables....
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > GOP does not do anything you mentioned The GOP shut down the government in the name of repealing the ACA. Texas’s governor took immigration--a federal prerogative--into his own hands [1]. They stopped when the courts told them to. I’m not suggesting Democrats ignore the courts. But push them, like the GOP has. > detaining ICE agents and not sending withheld federal taxes to Washington - this will happen only if the Democrat states would separate from the Union Not at all. The point would be to trigger court cases and gum up the works. Not to permanently detain or freeze funds. [1] https://gov.texas.gov/operationlonestar https://gov.texas.gov/operationlonestar
    - mrguyorama 1y ago
      The Trump admin has already demonstrated that court cases don't effectively gum up the works. Courts are eventually effective, but turns out you can ship a lot of people to a lot of places in the time it takes for "eventually". Court cases did not stop DOGE from destroying significant parts of our government. How the heck are Democrats supposed to stop us from bombing Venezuela? Trump is the rightfully elected commander in chief
      - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > Trump admin has already demonstrated that court cases don't effectively gum up the works Okay, then the Democrat governor wins. I’m not seeing the problem. > How the heck are Democrats supposed to stop us from bombing Venezuela? They’re not. Step one is Democrats need to stop overfocusing on foreign policy. Nobody cares about foreign policy except for comfortable wonks.
- mrguyorama 1y ago
  The GOP doesn't do those things. They instead just not vote for Democrat things, and because they always have almost 50% of every house all the time, all they need is one Democrat defector to kill anything democrats want to do, which is easy to find when people like Manchin are "Democrats". When McConnell refused to vote to appoint new supreme court justices, he was exercising the power given to him by the constitution. You want Democrats to wield power? You have to give it to them first. Our state's governor is a Democrat, and shes trying to sue the admin and fight it, but a lot of the shit Trump is doing is popular, so that might just result in yet another state going red. Democrats haven't really held power in the US since Reagan blasted the entire party out of the water by doing exactly what Trump does but cleaner. Jimmy Carter lost the election in a landslide so bad it nearly killed the party. Americans don't vote for Democrats or empathetic policy. They had to adopt neoliberalist bullshit and "hard on crime" crap to get elected with Clinton, and despite running the country very well and doing good things for 8 years, the public still chose to vote for a literal dynasty who then got us into criminal wars killing brown people for made up things, set trillions of dollars on fire for no gain, and set the worlds energy economy on fire, and america reelected him after that was clear. >Governors should be arresting ICE agents illegally detaining their citizens. So you are out there citizens arresting ICE agents right? Oh you aren't? Because you don't want to be shot and die? Remember, that democrat state senator was murdered by someone with clear political motivations and who dressed like a cop. She didn't even get the flag at half staff for a second, let alone the days that Charlie got.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > When McConnell refused to vote to appoint new supreme court justices, he was exercising the power given to him by the constitution Yes. I mentioned legal powers. Congressional obstructionism as the minority was turned an art by the GOP. Every step in committee and on the floor can be gummed up. And in states, Democrats do have power. What they aren’t doing is using it. > Democrats haven't really held power in the US since Reagan We’ve had two trifectas! > you are out there citizens arresting ICE agents right? Oh you aren't? You just talked about legitimate power… > that democrat state senator was murdered by someone with clear political motivations and who dressed like a cop Is the argument might makes right? Or law? Your comment is all over the place.
- alistairSH 1y ago
  Democrat states generate federal tax surpluses—gum up those payments Uh, almost all federal taxes flow directly from business to the IRS or other federal agencies. Your payroll and income taxes? ADP/Paylocity send the funds straight to the IRS; they don't flow through the state.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> What would you suggest the minority party do? Obstruct. Shamelessly. Governors should be arresting ICE agents illegally detaining their citizens. Democrat states generate federal tax surpluses—gum up those payments. Filibuster everything. You know, the stuff the GOP does.

rapind 1y ago
This is unfortunately probably going to be necessary, and should start happening soon while they still have any power. It's been going on like this for decades, since Gingrich IMO. It feels like the idealism of some on the left is failing to understand the prisoner's dilemma, and so they just keep losing. There's probably as many or more people from centre right to far left who'd be just as interested in sticking it to the right (let's just call it MAGA), as the right has been interested in owning the libs. I get that the election says otherwise, but I have a hunch that MAGA isn't nearly as popular as they think they are. I suspect a lot of people are just tired of the wet noodle Kumbaya politics from some on the left, upset with the status quo, really upset with the economy, etc. Do you ever come back from this though? No idea...
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > the idealism of some on the left I’m generally critical of the left. But this is one game they got right. It’s imbeciles hiding behind the cowardice of aimless moderation who are sinking America. The left is ready to fight. > Do you ever come back from this Yes. See: Andrew Jackson. The American Whigs. The British Whigs. The New Deal. What you don’t get back from is a lack of opposition. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/29/us/politics/russell-vought-trump-budget.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/29/us/politics/russell-vough...
  - rapind 1y ago
    > The left is ready to fight. I hope you're right. By idealism, I meant not fighting dirty. There's this moral superiority / higher ground thing with some politicians, that while I admire it, I doubt it's the right attitude for the moment. For example, the retaliatory gerrymandering proposed by some democratic states is the right response IMO, as horrible as gerrymandering is. In fact, they should probably stop apologizing for it and just take a page from MAGA and sell it as "sticking it to MAGA" instead of calling it a necessary evil.
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > There's this moral superiority / higher ground thing with some politicians Honestly, whom? Because I mostly see cowardice being draped in morality.
      - rapind 1y ago
        Maybe I'm being too generous then. I suspect it's a mix of both and I'm even a little cynical that there are plenty on the left who secretly like this new age of grift. /shrug
    - pibb_xtra_ 1y ago
      > For example, the retaliatory gerrymandering proposed by some democratic states is the right response Is it, this is just a hunch, but I’d imagine Texas or Ohio republicans stand to gain a lot more from redistributing districts than democrats in California do.
      - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > this is just a hunch There is a lot of informed vote counting on this question. Going off a hunch is unnecessary. Commenting off it a waste of time.
        pseudalopex 1y ago
- pibb_xtra_ 1y ago
  Enlightenment era philosophy is dying. Powerful people are rejecting it in favor of more darwinian ideas of society (maybe not directly Darwinian) that will allow them to consolidate their personal power. The democrats are simply too weak willed and divided to survive in that environment.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > Enlightenment era philosophy is dying. Powerful people are rejecting it in favor of more darwinian ideas of society What Enlightenment-era philosophy? (Political civility is not an Enlightenment value. If anything, it was the opposite.)
- colechristensen 1y ago
  >It feels like the idealism of some on the left is failing to understand the prisoner's dilemma, and so they just keep losing. The "idealism" of the left is increasingly just bigotry. There is a small set of people and problems they like and a large set they dislike or are simply disinterested in. This becomes indistinguishable from fascists who seek racial superiority for a particular group. It's not there yet but it's certainly going in a direction. The left hates the south, hates poor white people, hates rural people, hates men. The left is comfortable with open expression of this hatred. The left has a severe sense of "we know better than you" superiority and confusion as to why folks "vote against their own self interest". The left forgot that they made most of their societal progress by slowly normalizing things instead of loudly shoving changes in people's faces. The left wants to fight a culture war and when they win something they look for more things to be angry about accelerating divisiveness instead of slowing it down. The left doesn't want everyone to just be people, they've grown increasingly obsessed with categorizing people and then demanding performative celebration of new categories, you can't just be a person you've got to have a collection of adjectives. The active left are mostly bored people who want to fight for other people's problems and feel inadequate letting those people do it for themselves. The bigotry and divisiveness of both active sides of the political spectrum are becoming indistinguishable, the silent majority is leaderless. There is no one standing up rejecting both extremes arguing for sanity, rationality, and fairness. Liberté, égalité, fraternité should be the goals we're fighting for In the Weimar Republic there was the Iron Front with this flag with three arrows representing opposition to monarchy, fascism, and communism and what we need is some modern version of this opposed to the divisiveness, authoritarianism, and rejection of reason common across the political spectrum of America. We need the center to unite and reject both poles and return to a sense of individual thought and decision-making in our leaders instead of one thought per party.
dh2022 1y ago
GOP does not do anything you mentioned. Democrats are filibustering pretty much all they can do - with no shame (and kudos to them for the lack of shame). About detaining ICE agents and not sending withheld federal taxes to Washington - this will happen only if the Democrat states would separate from the Union. Which I really wish would happen. Unfortunately the Union will not break because both separating parties would have to split national debt and nuclear arsenal. So we (Democratic states) are stuck with the deplorables....
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > GOP does not do anything you mentioned The GOP shut down the government in the name of repealing the ACA. Texas’s governor took immigration--a federal prerogative--into his own hands [1]. They stopped when the courts told them to. I’m not suggesting Democrats ignore the courts. But push them, like the GOP has. > detaining ICE agents and not sending withheld federal taxes to Washington - this will happen only if the Democrat states would separate from the Union Not at all. The point would be to trigger court cases and gum up the works. Not to permanently detain or freeze funds. [1] https://gov.texas.gov/operationlonestar https://gov.texas.gov/operationlonestar
  - mrguyorama 1y ago
    The Trump admin has already demonstrated that court cases don't effectively gum up the works. Courts are eventually effective, but turns out you can ship a lot of people to a lot of places in the time it takes for "eventually". Court cases did not stop DOGE from destroying significant parts of our government. How the heck are Democrats supposed to stop us from bombing Venezuela? Trump is the rightfully elected commander in chief
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > Trump admin has already demonstrated that court cases don't effectively gum up the works Okay, then the Democrat governor wins. I’m not seeing the problem. > How the heck are Democrats supposed to stop us from bombing Venezuela? They’re not. Step one is Democrats need to stop overfocusing on foreign policy. Nobody cares about foreign policy except for comfortable wonks.
mrguyorama 1y ago
The GOP doesn't do those things. They instead just not vote for Democrat things, and because they always have almost 50% of every house all the time, all they need is one Democrat defector to kill anything democrats want to do, which is easy to find when people like Manchin are "Democrats". When McConnell refused to vote to appoint new supreme court justices, he was exercising the power given to him by the constitution. You want Democrats to wield power? You have to give it to them first. Our state's governor is a Democrat, and shes trying to sue the admin and fight it, but a lot of the shit Trump is doing is popular, so that might just result in yet another state going red. Democrats haven't really held power in the US since Reagan blasted the entire party out of the water by doing exactly what Trump does but cleaner. Jimmy Carter lost the election in a landslide so bad it nearly killed the party. Americans don't vote for Democrats or empathetic policy. They had to adopt neoliberalist bullshit and "hard on crime" crap to get elected with Clinton, and despite running the country very well and doing good things for 8 years, the public still chose to vote for a literal dynasty who then got us into criminal wars killing brown people for made up things, set trillions of dollars on fire for no gain, and set the worlds energy economy on fire, and america reelected him after that was clear. >Governors should be arresting ICE agents illegally detaining their citizens. So you are out there citizens arresting ICE agents right? Oh you aren't? Because you don't want to be shot and die? Remember, that democrat state senator was murdered by someone with clear political motivations and who dressed like a cop. She didn't even get the flag at half staff for a second, let alone the days that Charlie got.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > When McConnell refused to vote to appoint new supreme court justices, he was exercising the power given to him by the constitution Yes. I mentioned legal powers. Congressional obstructionism as the minority was turned an art by the GOP. Every step in committee and on the floor can be gummed up. And in states, Democrats do have power. What they aren’t doing is using it. > Democrats haven't really held power in the US since Reagan We’ve had two trifectas! > you are out there citizens arresting ICE agents right? Oh you aren't? You just talked about legitimate power… > that democrat state senator was murdered by someone with clear political motivations and who dressed like a cop Is the argument might makes right? Or law? Your comment is all over the place.
alistairSH 1y ago
Democrat states generate federal tax surpluses—gum up those payments Uh, almost all federal taxes flow directly from business to the IRS or other federal agencies. Your payroll and income taxes? ADP/Paylocity send the funds straight to the IRS; they don't flow through the state.