4 ms·

> Windows 10 is used by 42.8% of all Windows computer users worldwide. By contrast, when support for Windows 8 ended in January 2016, only 3.7% of Windows users

> Windows 10 is used by 42.8% of all Windows computer users worldwide. By contrast, when support for Windows 8 ended in January 2016, only 3.7% of Windows users were still using it. Only 2.2% of Windows users were still using Windows 8.1 when support ended in January 2023. > Many of the computers still running Windows 10 can’t upgrade to Windows 11. In 2022, hardware researchers found that 43% of all computers running Windows 10 could not move to Windows 11 — which equaled around 400 million computers at that time. Wow. This is actually pretty troubling. I naively assumed Microsoft was just following previous practice and that this wasn't a big deal, but this is actually... insane.

hobs 1y ago
Nope, windows 11 was extremely shoehorned in and the public has no obvious need or benefit for it, which is why they tried to auto update everyone and then force an out of support situation. This is the same microsoft that said win 10 would be the last version of windows and that they'd basically be patching and working on different versions of it forever.
- jamespo 1y ago
  That was never an official MS statement, not that this makes the situation any better
  - RajT88 1y ago
    Apparently that quote comes from Jerry Nixon at a Build conference in 2015. This is kind of splitting hairs on what counts as "official".
  - cjbgkagh 1y ago
    It was an announcement made by MS surrogates and it was promoted as true internally at MS, I personally head it through the grapevine from current MS employees. They really did try to get people to believe it as part of their billion devices push. I didn’t believe it because I know MS lies all the time, which is probably why they don’t make official statements about such things and generally work through surrogates. Maybe next time they can create a poly market bet.
    - ziml77 1y ago
      Let's say it was true. What does it even mean for users? macOS was on version 10 for something like 20 years. There were big changes in that time and compatibility for older hardware was dropped along the way. Version numbers like this are arbitrary. They could have released Windows 11 as Windows 10 21H2 and it would have changed nothing about the scenario where some people can't update and their version would stop receiving security updates.
      - RajT88 1y ago
        Even if it was true, 10 years is a long time. You can't trust anything any company says will still be true after 10 years - even if you have the same COE, their priorities and supporting executive team are likely to be different in 10 years.
      - cjbgkagh 1y ago
        I already said I didn't believe it for those reasons and others. It was a cynical lie to boost short term adoption that was clearly going to bite them in the ass later. Imagine if they now say Win11 will be the last version of Windows, no one would believe them and it would have no effect. The lack of trust creates problems in adoption of windows features, UI frameworks, App Stores etc. and this has very very negative consequences for the Windows ecosystem which is in a very sick state - I think maybe terminal. Also internally the internal departments lie to each other as well. Not even other departments will take dependencies and if you have no users for your features you lose the ability to justify funding - the perception becomes reality and a huge amount of effort and opportunity is wasted.
  - alexjplant 1y ago
    It was said by somebody that works for Microsoft on stage at a Microsoft conference [1]. > “Right now we’re releasing Windows 10, and because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we’re all still working on Windows 10,” Nixon continued. “And it’s really brilliant. So I can say things like, yeah, we’re working on interactive tiles and it’s coming to Windows 10 in one of its future updates, right.” > Microsoft didn’t deny what Nixon said, but it also didn’t back up the “last version” of Windows, either. For all reasonable intents and purposes "Microsoft" said this was the case then had to walk it back. [1] https://www.pcworld.com/article/394724/why-is-there-a-windows-11-if-windows-10-is-the-last-windows.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/394724/why-is-there-a-window...
    - jamespo 1y ago
      End of that article: "give Nixon a break, too: He made an enthusiastic, throwaway comment that ended up being understood as company policy."
    - kirb 1y ago
      No - one dev evangelist accidentally diverged from the marketing language for Windows 10, and now his words in a conference talk nobody previously cared about are being used as “proof” Microsoft lied. It’s like if Bob from accounting accidentally mentioned future plans on his LinkedIn years ago, then years later it’s being used as proof of the company going back on their words, despite them issuing a statement back then distancing from it. At some point, someone in a big company will say the wrong thing out loud and it needs to be carefully retracted without confirming or denying future plans.
daveoc64 1y ago
Windows 10 has had the same support lifecycle as Windows 8/8.1, 7, and Vista (as well as Windows XP, although that applied retroactively). It very much is them following previous practice.
- plodman 1y ago
  Except those OSs would work on any machine. They’d be slow in some cases but would still work. Windows 11 has requirements that either require BIOS tweaks or a whole new MB (or new machine).
  - WithinReason 1y ago
    None of that is necessary, you can bypass the requirements from the installer: https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/bypass-windows-11-tpm-requirement https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/bypass-windows-11-tpm-re...
    - water-data-dude 1y ago
      But will the average windows user be able to figure that out? Most people are a lot less tech savvy than this crowd
  - hagbard_c 1y ago
    Windows 11 can be made to work on machines which do not meet those requirements without much - if any - effort. I installed it on a KVM yesterday, running it in 4 GB of memory with 64 GB of storage (42GB free after install, debloat, upgrade to latest and clearing the C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download (might have an 's' after it, don't remember, don't care) directory) on a 2016 HP Spectre with an i5 CPU (2 cores, 4 threads with hyperthreading enabled, 8 GB/256 GB). That is not a powerhouse but it runs no worse than Windows 10. It will probably never be used but that's another story. I installed it on that machine for my 20yo daughter who has gone full Linux and did not see the need for it. I only put it there 'just in case' she needs it for her studies (preparatory year for vet college) and 'cause I can. There's 2 clear signs here from what I can see: if Linux does just fine for my non-technical 20yo daughter it will do fine for most people. Also, she has never really used Windows, only Linux (at home) and Chromebooks (at school and university) and does not feel the urge to start using it 'cause she does not stand to gain anything from it. Microsoft has lost the battle for the personal computer - or should that be 'for general purpose operating systems' - as far as I can see and any breaking change - like this Windows 11 your-hardware-need-not-apply thing - will cause more people to leave the platform. That Windows 11 VM will probably be removed in a few months time when it becomes clear she does not need it so why keep it around? Bye bye, Windows, we hardly knew you and she did not know you at all but your time has passed. Let's just hope that the passing of Windows does not also lead to the passing of general purpose computing and the further advance of locked-down computing appliances. There's no love lost for Microsoft from me, having been there when it rose to power using all the dirty tricks in the book and then some but they were a strong factor in the commoditisation of general purpose computer hardware - PCs and servers, laptops and notebooks - for which I will grudgingly give them some respect, also because I got to profit from the flotsam and jetsam caused by the ever-increasing hardware demands by repurposing 'old' hardware which then often outperformed the new and shiny only because I ditched Windows and installed Linux on it.
genter 1y ago
Another difference, though, is that Windows 8 was atrocious. Windows 10 was pretty good, certainly better than 8 or 11 (and I'd argue better than 7).
everdrive 1y ago
> Many of the computers still running Windows 10 can’t upgrade to Windows 11. In 2022, hardware researchers found that 43% of all computers running Windows 10 could not move to Windows 11 — which equaled around 400 million computers at that time. Microsoft presumably could -- at any time -- abandon these requirements via an update and a new installer. It's unclear to me why they're being so aggressive in this area, and represents a real closing door for a proper OS for anyone not using an alternative. (macOS, Linux, etc.)
- bell-cot 1y ago
  > It's unclear to me why ... Multiply 400 million (or whatever the current number is) by Microsoft's average profit per Windows 11 license sold.
  - WithinReason 1y ago
    400 million * 0 = 0 the upgrade is free
    - orionsbelt 1y ago
      Not if the computer is not eligible and you have to buy a new computer that comes with Windows, and the computer manufacturer pays a license fee to Microsoft.
      - bell-cot 1y ago
        Yep. And if you click the 'parent' links a few times - that 400 million is the number of not-eligible-for-upgrade computers. How convenient for MS's bottom line, eh?
- amlib 1y ago
  > It's unclear to me why ... Really? I thought it was very clear Microsoft wants to turn Windows into a mobile like OS where everything is locked down, you are restricted on what software you can run and the system is more like a digital surveillance apparatus and data usurping hell hole than an actual product that works for your interests.
ketzu 1y ago
The choice of windows 8 as comparisson seems deceptively disingenious to me. It is well known as an unpopular OS, that has been skipped by many. Windows 7 is much more in the position of windows 10. Taking [1] as a source, win 7 in 2025 has a marketshare of about 2%. In 2020 it had 20%. If we look at 2016 specifically [2] win 7 is still at 47% at the end of the year (and win XP at 6%, while this source gives win8.1 at 10%). Running unmaintained Windows releases is a tradition. [1] https://gs.statcounter.com/windows-version-market-share/desktop/worldwide https://gs.statcounter.com/windows-version-market-share/desk... [2] https://gs.statcounter.com/windows-version-market-share/desktop/worldwide/2016 https://gs.statcounter.com/windows-version-market-share/desk...

hobs 1y ago

Nope, windows 11 was extremely shoehorned in and the public has no obvious need or benefit for it, which is why they tried to auto update everyone and then force an out of support situation. This is the same microsoft that said win 10 would be the last version of windows and that they'd basically be patching and working on different versions of it forever.

jamespo 1y ago
That was never an official MS statement, not that this makes the situation any better
- RajT88 1y ago
  Apparently that quote comes from Jerry Nixon at a Build conference in 2015. This is kind of splitting hairs on what counts as "official".
- cjbgkagh 1y ago
  It was an announcement made by MS surrogates and it was promoted as true internally at MS, I personally head it through the grapevine from current MS employees. They really did try to get people to believe it as part of their billion devices push. I didn’t believe it because I know MS lies all the time, which is probably why they don’t make official statements about such things and generally work through surrogates. Maybe next time they can create a poly market bet.
  - ziml77 1y ago
    Let's say it was true. What does it even mean for users? macOS was on version 10 for something like 20 years. There were big changes in that time and compatibility for older hardware was dropped along the way. Version numbers like this are arbitrary. They could have released Windows 11 as Windows 10 21H2 and it would have changed nothing about the scenario where some people can't update and their version would stop receiving security updates.
    - RajT88 1y ago
      Even if it was true, 10 years is a long time. You can't trust anything any company says will still be true after 10 years - even if you have the same COE, their priorities and supporting executive team are likely to be different in 10 years.
    - cjbgkagh 1y ago
      I already said I didn't believe it for those reasons and others. It was a cynical lie to boost short term adoption that was clearly going to bite them in the ass later. Imagine if they now say Win11 will be the last version of Windows, no one would believe them and it would have no effect. The lack of trust creates problems in adoption of windows features, UI frameworks, App Stores etc. and this has very very negative consequences for the Windows ecosystem which is in a very sick state - I think maybe terminal. Also internally the internal departments lie to each other as well. Not even other departments will take dependencies and if you have no users for your features you lose the ability to justify funding - the perception becomes reality and a huge amount of effort and opportunity is wasted.
- alexjplant 1y ago
  It was said by somebody that works for Microsoft on stage at a Microsoft conference [1]. > “Right now we’re releasing Windows 10, and because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we’re all still working on Windows 10,” Nixon continued. “And it’s really brilliant. So I can say things like, yeah, we’re working on interactive tiles and it’s coming to Windows 10 in one of its future updates, right.” > Microsoft didn’t deny what Nixon said, but it also didn’t back up the “last version” of Windows, either. For all reasonable intents and purposes "Microsoft" said this was the case then had to walk it back. [1] https://www.pcworld.com/article/394724/why-is-there-a-windows-11-if-windows-10-is-the-last-windows.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/394724/why-is-there-a-window...
  - jamespo 1y ago
    End of that article: "give Nixon a break, too: He made an enthusiastic, throwaway comment that ended up being understood as company policy."
  - kirb 1y ago
    No - one dev evangelist accidentally diverged from the marketing language for Windows 10, and now his words in a conference talk nobody previously cared about are being used as “proof” Microsoft lied. It’s like if Bob from accounting accidentally mentioned future plans on his LinkedIn years ago, then years later it’s being used as proof of the company going back on their words, despite them issuing a statement back then distancing from it. At some point, someone in a big company will say the wrong thing out loud and it needs to be carefully retracted without confirming or denying future plans.

daveoc64 1y ago

Windows 10 has had the same support lifecycle as Windows 8/8.1, 7, and Vista (as well as Windows XP, although that applied retroactively). It very much is them following previous practice.

plodman 1y ago
Except those OSs would work on any machine. They’d be slow in some cases but would still work. Windows 11 has requirements that either require BIOS tweaks or a whole new MB (or new machine).
- WithinReason 1y ago
  None of that is necessary, you can bypass the requirements from the installer: https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/bypass-windows-11-tpm-requirement https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/bypass-windows-11-tpm-re...
  - water-data-dude 1y ago
    But will the average windows user be able to figure that out? Most people are a lot less tech savvy than this crowd
- hagbard_c 1y ago
  Windows 11 can be made to work on machines which do not meet those requirements without much - if any - effort. I installed it on a KVM yesterday, running it in 4 GB of memory with 64 GB of storage (42GB free after install, debloat, upgrade to latest and clearing the C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download (might have an 's' after it, don't remember, don't care) directory) on a 2016 HP Spectre with an i5 CPU (2 cores, 4 threads with hyperthreading enabled, 8 GB/256 GB). That is not a powerhouse but it runs no worse than Windows 10. It will probably never be used but that's another story. I installed it on that machine for my 20yo daughter who has gone full Linux and did not see the need for it. I only put it there 'just in case' she needs it for her studies (preparatory year for vet college) and 'cause I can. There's 2 clear signs here from what I can see: if Linux does just fine for my non-technical 20yo daughter it will do fine for most people. Also, she has never really used Windows, only Linux (at home) and Chromebooks (at school and university) and does not feel the urge to start using it 'cause she does not stand to gain anything from it. Microsoft has lost the battle for the personal computer - or should that be 'for general purpose operating systems' - as far as I can see and any breaking change - like this Windows 11 your-hardware-need-not-apply thing - will cause more people to leave the platform. That Windows 11 VM will probably be removed in a few months time when it becomes clear she does not need it so why keep it around? Bye bye, Windows, we hardly knew you and she did not know you at all but your time has passed. Let's just hope that the passing of Windows does not also lead to the passing of general purpose computing and the further advance of locked-down computing appliances. There's no love lost for Microsoft from me, having been there when it rose to power using all the dirty tricks in the book and then some but they were a strong factor in the commoditisation of general purpose computer hardware - PCs and servers, laptops and notebooks - for which I will grudgingly give them some respect, also because I got to profit from the flotsam and jetsam caused by the ever-increasing hardware demands by repurposing 'old' hardware which then often outperformed the new and shiny only because I ditched Windows and installed Linux on it.

genter 1y ago

Another difference, though, is that Windows 8 was atrocious. Windows 10 was pretty good, certainly better than 8 or 11 (and I'd argue better than 7).

everdrive 1y ago

> Many of the computers still running Windows 10 can’t upgrade to Windows 11. In 2022, hardware researchers found that 43% of all computers running Windows 10 could not move to Windows 11 — which equaled around 400 million computers at that time. Microsoft presumably could -- at any time -- abandon these requirements via an update and a new installer. It's unclear to me why they're being so aggressive in this area, and represents a real closing door for a proper OS for anyone not using an alternative. (macOS, Linux, etc.)

bell-cot 1y ago
> It's unclear to me why ... Multiply 400 million (or whatever the current number is) by Microsoft's average profit per Windows 11 license sold.
- WithinReason 1y ago
  400 million * 0 = 0 the upgrade is free
  - orionsbelt 1y ago
    Not if the computer is not eligible and you have to buy a new computer that comes with Windows, and the computer manufacturer pays a license fee to Microsoft.
    - bell-cot 1y ago
      Yep. And if you click the 'parent' links a few times - that 400 million is the number of not-eligible-for-upgrade computers. How convenient for MS's bottom line, eh?
amlib 1y ago
> It's unclear to me why ... Really? I thought it was very clear Microsoft wants to turn Windows into a mobile like OS where everything is locked down, you are restricted on what software you can run and the system is more like a digital surveillance apparatus and data usurping hell hole than an actual product that works for your interests.

ketzu 1y ago

The choice of windows 8 as comparisson seems deceptively disingenious to me. It is well known as an unpopular OS, that has been skipped by many. Windows 7 is much more in the position of windows 10. Taking [1] as a source, win 7 in 2025 has a marketshare of about 2%. In 2020 it had 20%. If we look at 2016 specifically [2] win 7 is still at 47% at the end of the year (and win XP at 6%, while this source gives win8.1 at 10%). Running unmaintained Windows releases is a tradition. [1] https://gs.statcounter.com/windows-version-market-share/desktop/worldwide https://gs.statcounter.com/windows-version-market-share/desk... [2] https://gs.statcounter.com/windows-version-market-share/desktop/worldwide/2016 https://gs.statcounter.com/windows-version-market-share/desk...