8 ms·

N8n added native persistent storage with DataTables

174 points by XCSme 1y ago

mritchie712 1y ago
it'll be interesting to see what happens with n8n over the next few years. On one hand, a ton of people are using it to build AI workflows. On the other, it's never been easier to build a similar workflow in Python with Claude Code or other tools where you get infinite flexibility, version control, and more flexibility on hosting. We're betting on the later at https://www.definite.app/ https://www.definite.app/. Our agent writes pure Python with pre-built integrations into stuff like Hubspot, Salesforce, Attio, Stripe, Postgres, etc.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- op00to 1y ago
  Might be easy to build, but impossible to maintain.
- sieep 1y ago
  That pricing model is insane and confusing as hell. Your FAQ clears it up slightly but was hard pass from me almost instantly due to the conflicting information in the pricing section.
  - mritchie712 1y ago
    Yeah, we're working on it. I'd prefer to by compute hours, but it's hard for people to know how many hours they'll need.
  - rubenvanwyk 1y ago
    I also was shocked when I saw it initially, but it's really just a UI-veneer over an outsourced data team from what I can tell. Although it looks like another product/platform, it's really about outsourcing.
BobSonOfBob 1y ago
It’s smart for N8N to add DataTables. Had to of been the biggest dev need.
globalhsbc 1y ago
[dead]
owenthejumper 1y ago
The n8n space has been crowded for a long time - Tray io, Zapier Enterprise, Workato, Make, UIPath, and many others N8n seems to be standing out thanks to their open source roots (and not deliberately hampering the OSS variant too much). DataTables will make a big difference again - being able to store some level of "state" has been a need in almost every workflow I've built.
- JimDabell 1y ago
  n8n doesn’t have open-source roots. It’s never been open-source and doesn’t have an OSS variant.
Towaway69 1y ago
Didn't their change their licensing or something and now folks are leaving? I've seen a few ex-N8n'ers coming over to the Node-RED forum, hence the question.
- tarun_anand 1y ago
  Keep to know how people are using it inspite of the licensing issues. Langflow seems good?
  - nextworddev 1y ago
    Langflow was more painful than a wisdom tooth extraction to use. This was back in early 2025 tho
    - Towaway69 1y ago
      I would recommend Node-RED but that's a lot more work than a Zapier or N8n but you can do more with it - Node-RED abstraction level is closer to a programming language than a SaaS combinatorial tool. Depends on what you want to achieve and how much effort you want to apply.
- cyrnel 1y ago
  +1 for Node-RED. If we've learned anything from elasticsearch/redis/bitnami/and dozens of others, it should be "don't build important things on code that isn't enshittification-resistant"
  - echelon 1y ago
    What did elasticsearch/redis do so wrong? AWS and Google stole their only revenue source. Those guys did all the work and AWS and Google get to collect a cool hundred million each quarter for doing next to nothing. And the original authors can't compete with that. Are we all gonna go sign up to "Enterprise Redis Cloud" to support them? I don't think so. They have nothing left. They got picked dry. If they're preserved a "no managed offerings" freedom for themselves, they could collect a few hundred million from each hyperscaler each quarter and put that directly into product. And their engineers would be extra nicely compensated. But that's not how this story plays out. Big tech just takes things and finds out how to monetize them in ways they don't have to give back. And we've been trained (by big tech?) to yell at the little guys that try to carve out a space for themselves.
dondraper36 1y ago
Also, take a look at windmill.dev. It’s a beast
- anilgulecha 1y ago
  I think windmill got the entities right (script, flow, app). The last I tried it was a bit more complex to setup than n8n.
  - rubenvanwyk 1y ago
    We also had to abandon it, due to setup complexity coupled with capacity constraints.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- zachwill 1y ago
  We’ve similarly had a lot of success with self-hosting Windmill.
diarrhea 1y ago
Great to see this land. When I set up n8n last year I was thoroughly confused at the lack of state management. I ended up storing as JSON in a remote blob “database”, a horrible hack.
- Towaway69 1y ago
  Node-RED has three state access levels: global one across all flows, a flow based state which is only applicable to one flow and node-based state/storage that is linked to single node. Any node can access global state, only nodes contained in the flow can access flow state and nodes that have their own state can solely access that storage.
revanwjy 1y ago
[dead]
jtrn 1y ago
The other licensing shoe is going to drop. And when it does, it will be same as always. Important features will be cut of from “community” edition, like admin for minio, and pricing will be predatory for full product, like Taipy. Seriously, screw Taipy. Got quoted 200k for an open license if I wanted to self host it, with no limit on number users.
- jdoss 1y ago
  I got hit by the Minio admin change in the console when I upgraded my installation recently, and I found https://github.com/huncrys/minio-console https://github.com/huncrys/minio-console which adds it all back in. It works as expected so far. I find this kind of rug pull behavior so hostile I will be looking to replace Minio as soon as possible in my homelab. To be clear, I would pay for a license if the prices weren't impossible to afford as an invidual who uses Minio for non-business reasons.
  - jtrn 1y ago
    Rug-pull is a good description of how I feel also. And the most annoying thing for me is that I, like you, actually WOULD be happy to pay a REASONABLE price. But all the patterns nowadays are bi-modal. Stripped-down community edition to get open-source and community credit (and hopefully free coding contributions) on one end.And on the other end; enterprise pricing, with per-user or other complex pricing rules and restrictions. And only after "Let's talk" and "Contact sales" waste of time. What about a reasonable, low recurring fee with no limits on what I can do with it if I self-host? Or a modest one time price for one version of the software? It doesn't cost the creator any more whether I have 2 users or 200 if I self-host. I used to disagree a lot with Richard Stallman, but now when I ask AI to help search for software alternatives, I always specify "Only TRUE FOSS alternatives, with no enterprise option or paywalled features." Not because I don't want to pay a fair price, but to avoid being flogged AND the unnecessary complexity of setting up a damn equation to figure out how much it will cost.
untrimmed 1y ago
It's awesome for quick projects, but that 50MB limit makes me think I'll just end up migrating to Supabase or Airtable down the line anyway.
- notrealyme123 1y ago
  For self hosting you can raise the limit.
whoknowsidont 1y ago
What is the point of this... platform? Also you can't scroll down to the footer because some wonderfully experienced designer (or PM or even engineer) decided the infinite scroll list was a good idea. Classic.
- CharlesW 1y ago
  You're looking at the community forum, which uses Discourse (https://www.discourse.org/ https://www.discourse.org/). Check out the n8n home page (https://n8n.io/ https://n8n.io/), which is actually great at clearly communicating the point of the platform.
  - jiggawatts 1y ago
    Has only 17 Microsoft integrations, covering only 10 products. The Silicon Valley startup bubble world always amuses me. "You can integrate with anything! Well, except the enormously popular suite of applications used by everyone, everywhere else!"
    - rl1987 1y ago
      You can do arbitrary REST API calls from n8n, which greatly increases the integrability surface.
tcdent 1y ago
What percent of agent devs are using tools like this versus writing code to define their systems? Seems like a lot, and I find it surprising that people would build real world workflows on platforms like this.
- Raed667 1y ago
  On the other hand LangGraph and LangChain are an absolute pain to use and you end up spending most of your effort in boilerplate hell if you want to stitch together anything useful
- melvinmelih 1y ago
  I recently had to build a production-ready workflow in N8N - it ended up being a spaghetti flow of custom code nodes and custom http requests (because none of the provided connectors did exactly what we needed) that I was left wondering if this wouldn't be easier to code up in Cursor.
- ilaksh 1y ago
  It looks to me like n8n has suddenly taken over to the point where Automation is now almost synonymous with n8n for most people. As someone who builds workflows using my own agent system which is based on checklists, subtasks and tool calling with new features or tools based on plugins in Python, it is harder and harder to find an "AI Automation" project where people haven't predetermined that I have to use n8n. It's ridiculous. I actually think that defaulting to creating workflows in raw code is not an ideal outcome though because it feels inaccessible to non-programmers. But I think within X months there will be a lot of people who find out how bad the licensing issues are with n8n and migrate to something similar to my system where workflows are run by agents that have a delegate_subtask command or commands to manage checklists etc. Because most of the workflows can be managed easily by strong models and just described in natural language if the agents have the right tool commands and the system has a scheduling/trigger system. But then give it another X months or a year or so later and many will start using general purpose computer use agents that they just treat quite similarly to human employees. Because one of the biggest gaps regardless of how you do it is with the inconvenience of setting up OAuth 2 and the operational and bottom line issue of running all of your API requests through some centralized service like n8n. So we will see people who have agent systems like myself (mindroot on GitHub) start building in computer and browser use capabilities and recipes for accessing websites and creating API keys etc. for their users. Also there inevitably is going to be something along the lines of OAuth or similar that will allow agents to sign up for services and create credentials on behalf of users to solve this type of problem. But one of the big advantages n8n has with users right now is that they have OAuth set up with literally everything.
donperignon 1y ago
I don’t get all the n8n hype
- Svoka 1y ago
  You want to make an easy automation but doesn't want to write integration code for bunch of platforms. n8n is good because of loads of easy to use and straightforward to configure with good documentation nodes. Like 'get message from whatsapp' trigger. I have a bot which gets messages from WhatsApp looks for URL in it, downloads a video and posts it to private video hosting, and then shares link in chat with friends. All components are already there and you don't have to code really annoying infra around maintaining WhatsApp bot.
the_alchemist 1y ago
Slightly off topic question , but do you pronounce it n eight n, or Nathan ? I got blank stares when saying Nathan from my colleagues :')
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- jiggunjer 1y ago
  Nodemation
nkg 1y ago
I already felt the need to persist data between different nodes and workflows, so I made a bespoke API with dedicated endpoints that perform CRUD tasks (Yes, it defeats the purpose of a no-code platform but I can code, so...). I have to say I love N8n so far, it is a great productivity tool.
nthypes 1y ago
I love Node-RED instead of n8n. But it's biggest problem is that does not have the concept of an "execution". Which sucks.
- threecheese 1y ago
  They fit different niches, IME; node-red is designed for IoT workloads, and so is a great fit for high volume messaging; n8n on the other hand is more workflow automation focused -like Zapier - and so has higher level abstractions and is less focused on performance efficiency. Can they both fit some of the same use cases? Definitely.
  - nthypes 1y ago
    I agree. but even for IoT you must have some type of observability.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
felishiagreen12 1y ago
[dead]
93n 1y ago
I self-host n8n along with about two dozen other services for personal use. I make extensive use of the webhook triggers. Being able to spin up an endpoint with minimal effort is quite handy. The data table feature looks useful. Similar to another poster, I've been using json blobs on disk instead, since I don't have concurrency, scaling, or performance concerns for my use cases. I get some very weird vibes from the n8n subreddit. There's a bunch of 'get rich quick with AI workflows' posts which feel icky.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
hoppp 1y ago
Does the name n8n have a longer version like k8s does? Is it a similar naming convention or n8n is the full name?
- vge77 1y ago
  its full name is nodemation. Ye I think it's the same naming convention
neochris 1y ago
Hi HN, has anyone tried: https://github.com/TracecatHQ/tracecat https://github.com/TracecatHQ/tracecat We got workflows, tables and case management. Focused on SecOps, ITOps, and prod eng / infra use cases. Even if you’re on Jira or SNOW, having even a basic ticketing system built in turned out to be a very productive persistence layer for our users to prototype with. Copy left AGPL 3.0 license.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
alper 1y ago
All these platforms are kind of a non-starter at scale. The thing that would really stand out is something that has the user friendly workflow definition but then for production running, bakes it into a container that's orchestrated on k8s natively.
ldouglas 1y ago
I'd recommend node-red. We've tried N8N, zapier, windmill, activepieces, flowfuse, crosser and can't for the life of me get off node-red. We use it extensively in handling simply API endpoints, websocket pipelining, and extremely complex commerce and an AI workflows. However, node-red is simply the best option for now. We're moving away from visual based coding for various accessibility and inclusivity reasons (not just human) and recreating the concepts of node-red flow-based-programming directly in cloudflare workers that are orchestrated by human+ai CI/CD flows.
- kristopherleads 1y ago
  What's the inclusivity reasons? I'd be interested in understanding a bit more about that.

174 points by XCSme 1y ago

it'll be interesting to see what happens with n8n over the next few years. On one hand, a ton of people are using it to build AI workflows. On the other, it's never been easier to build a similar workflow in Python with Claude Code or other tools where you get infinite flexibility, version control, and more flexibility on hosting. We're betting on the later at https://www.definite.app/ https://www.definite.app/. Our agent writes pure Python with pre-built integrations into stuff like Hubspot, Salesforce, Attio, Stripe, Postgres, etc.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
op00to 1y ago
Might be easy to build, but impossible to maintain.
sieep 1y ago
That pricing model is insane and confusing as hell. Your FAQ clears it up slightly but was hard pass from me almost instantly due to the conflicting information in the pricing section.
- mritchie712 1y ago
  Yeah, we're working on it. I'd prefer to by compute hours, but it's hard for people to know how many hours they'll need.
- rubenvanwyk 1y ago
  I also was shocked when I saw it initially, but it's really just a UI-veneer over an outsourced data team from what I can tell. Although it looks like another product/platform, it's really about outsourcing.

BobSonOfBob 1y ago

It’s smart for N8N to add DataTables. Had to of been the biggest dev need.

globalhsbc 1y ago

[dead]

owenthejumper 1y ago

The n8n space has been crowded for a long time - Tray io, Zapier Enterprise, Workato, Make, UIPath, and many others N8n seems to be standing out thanks to their open source roots (and not deliberately hampering the OSS variant too much). DataTables will make a big difference again - being able to store some level of "state" has been a need in almost every workflow I've built.

JimDabell 1y ago
n8n doesn’t have open-source roots. It’s never been open-source and doesn’t have an OSS variant.

Towaway69 1y ago

Didn't their change their licensing or something and now folks are leaving? I've seen a few ex-N8n'ers coming over to the Node-RED forum, hence the question.

tarun_anand 1y ago
Keep to know how people are using it inspite of the licensing issues. Langflow seems good?
- nextworddev 1y ago
  Langflow was more painful than a wisdom tooth extraction to use. This was back in early 2025 tho
  - Towaway69 1y ago
    I would recommend Node-RED but that's a lot more work than a Zapier or N8n but you can do more with it - Node-RED abstraction level is closer to a programming language than a SaaS combinatorial tool. Depends on what you want to achieve and how much effort you want to apply.
cyrnel 1y ago
+1 for Node-RED. If we've learned anything from elasticsearch/redis/bitnami/and dozens of others, it should be "don't build important things on code that isn't enshittification-resistant"
- echelon 1y ago
  What did elasticsearch/redis do so wrong? AWS and Google stole their only revenue source. Those guys did all the work and AWS and Google get to collect a cool hundred million each quarter for doing next to nothing. And the original authors can't compete with that. Are we all gonna go sign up to "Enterprise Redis Cloud" to support them? I don't think so. They have nothing left. They got picked dry. If they're preserved a "no managed offerings" freedom for themselves, they could collect a few hundred million from each hyperscaler each quarter and put that directly into product. And their engineers would be extra nicely compensated. But that's not how this story plays out. Big tech just takes things and finds out how to monetize them in ways they don't have to give back. And we've been trained (by big tech?) to yell at the little guys that try to carve out a space for themselves.

dondraper36 1y ago

Also, take a look at windmill.dev. It’s a beast

anilgulecha 1y ago
I think windmill got the entities right (script, flow, app). The last I tried it was a bit more complex to setup than n8n.
- rubenvanwyk 1y ago
  We also had to abandon it, due to setup complexity coupled with capacity constraints.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
zachwill 1y ago
We’ve similarly had a lot of success with self-hosting Windmill.

diarrhea 1y ago

Great to see this land. When I set up n8n last year I was thoroughly confused at the lack of state management. I ended up storing as JSON in a remote blob “database”, a horrible hack.

Towaway69 1y ago
Node-RED has three state access levels: global one across all flows, a flow based state which is only applicable to one flow and node-based state/storage that is linked to single node. Any node can access global state, only nodes contained in the flow can access flow state and nodes that have their own state can solely access that storage.

revanwjy 1y ago

[dead]

jtrn 1y ago

The other licensing shoe is going to drop. And when it does, it will be same as always. Important features will be cut of from “community” edition, like admin for minio, and pricing will be predatory for full product, like Taipy. Seriously, screw Taipy. Got quoted 200k for an open license if I wanted to self host it, with no limit on number users.

jdoss 1y ago
I got hit by the Minio admin change in the console when I upgraded my installation recently, and I found https://github.com/huncrys/minio-console https://github.com/huncrys/minio-console which adds it all back in. It works as expected so far. I find this kind of rug pull behavior so hostile I will be looking to replace Minio as soon as possible in my homelab. To be clear, I would pay for a license if the prices weren't impossible to afford as an invidual who uses Minio for non-business reasons.
- jtrn 1y ago
  Rug-pull is a good description of how I feel also. And the most annoying thing for me is that I, like you, actually WOULD be happy to pay a REASONABLE price. But all the patterns nowadays are bi-modal. Stripped-down community edition to get open-source and community credit (and hopefully free coding contributions) on one end.And on the other end; enterprise pricing, with per-user or other complex pricing rules and restrictions. And only after "Let's talk" and "Contact sales" waste of time. What about a reasonable, low recurring fee with no limits on what I can do with it if I self-host? Or a modest one time price for one version of the software? It doesn't cost the creator any more whether I have 2 users or 200 if I self-host. I used to disagree a lot with Richard Stallman, but now when I ask AI to help search for software alternatives, I always specify "Only TRUE FOSS alternatives, with no enterprise option or paywalled features." Not because I don't want to pay a fair price, but to avoid being flogged AND the unnecessary complexity of setting up a damn equation to figure out how much it will cost.

untrimmed 1y ago

It's awesome for quick projects, but that 50MB limit makes me think I'll just end up migrating to Supabase or Airtable down the line anyway.

notrealyme123 1y ago
For self hosting you can raise the limit.

whoknowsidont 1y ago

What is the point of this... platform? Also you can't scroll down to the footer because some wonderfully experienced designer (or PM or even engineer) decided the infinite scroll list was a good idea. Classic.

CharlesW 1y ago
You're looking at the community forum, which uses Discourse (https://www.discourse.org/ https://www.discourse.org/). Check out the n8n home page (https://n8n.io/ https://n8n.io/), which is actually great at clearly communicating the point of the platform.
- jiggawatts 1y ago
  Has only 17 Microsoft integrations, covering only 10 products. The Silicon Valley startup bubble world always amuses me. "You can integrate with anything! Well, except the enormously popular suite of applications used by everyone, everywhere else!"
  - rl1987 1y ago
    You can do arbitrary REST API calls from n8n, which greatly increases the integrability surface.

tcdent 1y ago

What percent of agent devs are using tools like this versus writing code to define their systems? Seems like a lot, and I find it surprising that people would build real world workflows on platforms like this.

Raed667 1y ago
On the other hand LangGraph and LangChain are an absolute pain to use and you end up spending most of your effort in boilerplate hell if you want to stitch together anything useful
melvinmelih 1y ago
I recently had to build a production-ready workflow in N8N - it ended up being a spaghetti flow of custom code nodes and custom http requests (because none of the provided connectors did exactly what we needed) that I was left wondering if this wouldn't be easier to code up in Cursor.
ilaksh 1y ago
It looks to me like n8n has suddenly taken over to the point where Automation is now almost synonymous with n8n for most people. As someone who builds workflows using my own agent system which is based on checklists, subtasks and tool calling with new features or tools based on plugins in Python, it is harder and harder to find an "AI Automation" project where people haven't predetermined that I have to use n8n. It's ridiculous. I actually think that defaulting to creating workflows in raw code is not an ideal outcome though because it feels inaccessible to non-programmers. But I think within X months there will be a lot of people who find out how bad the licensing issues are with n8n and migrate to something similar to my system where workflows are run by agents that have a delegate_subtask command or commands to manage checklists etc. Because most of the workflows can be managed easily by strong models and just described in natural language if the agents have the right tool commands and the system has a scheduling/trigger system. But then give it another X months or a year or so later and many will start using general purpose computer use agents that they just treat quite similarly to human employees. Because one of the biggest gaps regardless of how you do it is with the inconvenience of setting up OAuth 2 and the operational and bottom line issue of running all of your API requests through some centralized service like n8n. So we will see people who have agent systems like myself (mindroot on GitHub) start building in computer and browser use capabilities and recipes for accessing websites and creating API keys etc. for their users. Also there inevitably is going to be something along the lines of OAuth or similar that will allow agents to sign up for services and create credentials on behalf of users to solve this type of problem. But one of the big advantages n8n has with users right now is that they have OAuth set up with literally everything.

donperignon 1y ago

I don’t get all the n8n hype

Svoka 1y ago
You want to make an easy automation but doesn't want to write integration code for bunch of platforms. n8n is good because of loads of easy to use and straightforward to configure with good documentation nodes. Like 'get message from whatsapp' trigger. I have a bot which gets messages from WhatsApp looks for URL in it, downloads a video and posts it to private video hosting, and then shares link in chat with friends. All components are already there and you don't have to code really annoying infra around maintaining WhatsApp bot.

the_alchemist 1y ago

Slightly off topic question , but do you pronounce it n eight n, or Nathan ? I got blank stares when saying Nathan from my colleagues :')

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
jiggunjer 1y ago
Nodemation

nkg 1y ago

I already felt the need to persist data between different nodes and workflows, so I made a bespoke API with dedicated endpoints that perform CRUD tasks (Yes, it defeats the purpose of a no-code platform but I can code, so...). I have to say I love N8n so far, it is a great productivity tool.

nthypes 1y ago

I love Node-RED instead of n8n. But it's biggest problem is that does not have the concept of an "execution". Which sucks.

threecheese 1y ago
They fit different niches, IME; node-red is designed for IoT workloads, and so is a great fit for high volume messaging; n8n on the other hand is more workflow automation focused -like Zapier - and so has higher level abstractions and is less focused on performance efficiency. Can they both fit some of the same use cases? Definitely.
- nthypes 1y ago
  I agree. but even for IoT you must have some type of observability.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

felishiagreen12 1y ago

[dead]

93n 1y ago

I self-host n8n along with about two dozen other services for personal use. I make extensive use of the webhook triggers. Being able to spin up an endpoint with minimal effort is quite handy. The data table feature looks useful. Similar to another poster, I've been using json blobs on disk instead, since I don't have concurrency, scaling, or performance concerns for my use cases. I get some very weird vibes from the n8n subreddit. There's a bunch of 'get rich quick with AI workflows' posts which feel icky.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

hoppp 1y ago

Does the name n8n have a longer version like k8s does? Is it a similar naming convention or n8n is the full name?

vge77 1y ago
its full name is nodemation. Ye I think it's the same naming convention

neochris 1y ago

Hi HN, has anyone tried: https://github.com/TracecatHQ/tracecat https://github.com/TracecatHQ/tracecat We got workflows, tables and case management. Focused on SecOps, ITOps, and prod eng / infra use cases. Even if you’re on Jira or SNOW, having even a basic ticketing system built in turned out to be a very productive persistence layer for our users to prototype with. Copy left AGPL 3.0 license.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

alper 1y ago

All these platforms are kind of a non-starter at scale. The thing that would really stand out is something that has the user friendly workflow definition but then for production running, bakes it into a container that's orchestrated on k8s natively.

ldouglas 1y ago

I'd recommend node-red. We've tried N8N, zapier, windmill, activepieces, flowfuse, crosser and can't for the life of me get off node-red. We use it extensively in handling simply API endpoints, websocket pipelining, and extremely complex commerce and an AI workflows. However, node-red is simply the best option for now. We're moving away from visual based coding for various accessibility and inclusivity reasons (not just human) and recreating the concepts of node-red flow-based-programming directly in cloudflare workers that are orchestrated by human+ai CI/CD flows.

kristopherleads 1y ago
What's the inclusivity reasons? I'd be interested in understanding a bit more about that.