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This isn't good, but it's not uncommon. My concern is if this behavior has led the European Union into the digital ID fiasco. All of this data monitoring can be

This isn't good, but it's not uncommon. My concern is if this behavior has led the European Union into the digital ID fiasco. All of this data monitoring can be used to manipulate politicians into supporting.

mrtksn 1y ago
What is the EU digital ID fiasco?
- Simulacra 1y ago
  Apologies, Britain is forcing digital ID for all citizens for Internet access. This is also been discussed at the European Parliament level, and there's a significant amount of public black lash. That's the fiasco, I should've been more specific.
  - norman784 1y ago
    AFAIK the digital ID will also be required when getting a new job.
    - hkt 1y ago
      In the UK's case, ID has been required to get a new job or rent a house for a decade.
      - whywhywhywhy 1y ago
        ok so why the need for the digital one if we already have one
        ajsnigrutin 1y ago
        Because requiring an ID to register for eg. a facebook account is hard... how do you input your physical card into a computer? There's potential for abuse when taking a photo of it, and as soon as one photo of an ID appears online, everyone can use that. By having people get digital IDs, you can require them to use it when registering for social network accounts, etc., because it's already in their phones and requires just one tap to 'sign' the account with your real identity. Want to complain about a local politician on r/uk on reddit? You'll need a valid UK account to even post there, and it'll be tied to your real name. Want to join a discord? You need UK ID and your real identity tied to it. Organizing a protest? Well, your real name is there, the police will be visiting soon.
        pjc50 1y ago
        Very good question, isn't it. The point of the policy is to make headlines. Implementation is a messy detail for the future.
        Nab443 1y ago
        Easier to store more information while preventing any non authorized to access them, like signing keys and biometrics ?
  - wizzwizz4 1y ago
    You're still conflating a few things. The UK government wants to require digital ID for employment, with housing etc to follow. People on HN suspect the plan is to combine that with the Online Safety Act internet identification requirements, but no such plans have been announced as far as I'm aware.
    - masfuerte 1y ago
      When Starmer announced digital ID he also talked about the regulation of social media. Sure, nobody has confirmed the plan, but the two things are clearly connected in the prime minister's thinking. On the other hand, according to The Times yesterday the cabinet isn't happy with digital ID. It's as obvious to them as it is to everyone else that digital ID won't make a jot of difference to illegal working. And may well lose them votes.
    - octo888 1y ago
      Yes the idea is to get ahead of things you are opposed to instead of waiting for it to be law already, so you can try to prevent or shape it
    - graemep 1y ago
      The UK is also shortly going to require all children to have a digital identifier to be used across government services. That also clears a path to a digital ID. The government has also talked about making drivings licences digital (i.e. apps) People suspect a lot more than it being used in conjunction with the OSA. it can be extended in all sorts of ways. Once available it will be used for more and more. It is not necessary for employment and housing as there are already documents that can be checked on the rare occasions people rent housing or get a new job. It is only worth doing if it is something people will use daily. Essentially people will be coerced into carrying a Google or Apple smartphone with the ID app on it.
      - wizzwizz4 1y ago
        > The UK is also shortly going to require all children to have a digital identifier to be used across government services. I hadn't heard about that one. Source?
  - pjc50 1y ago
    In case you missed it, the UK is no longer part of the EU. It is doing this under its own steam, or perhaps that of lobbyists.
    - harvey9 1y ago
      The current UK PM campaigned to remain in the EU and I doubt he has ever done anything under his own steam. The lobbyists in this case are led by the Tony Blair Institute - Mr Blair tried to introduce id cards when he was PM.
  - hopelite 1y ago
    I sometimes wonder what people think who previously would have verbally accosted and ridiculed others who warned of this very state of things coming about, being made identifiable online in a country/society where the government has already also rolled out a panopticon of surveillance and clandestine perception and thought control, where privacy does not exist in public either anymore. It doesn’t really matter either way because the tyranny and authoritarian control will descend upon people regardless; but do they at least have some kind of guilt, maybe shame, or even realize they are also guilty, not just in basically helping their own enemy, the people in charge of the government implementing these things? Or do they simply in a somewhat typical narcissistic way just hand wave it away and generously absolve themselves of any guilt and responsibility for the misery they are/will be responsible for? Turns out the “…fools, and even the ambitious…” were also the “…traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely…”. It was a stroke of genius to psychologically and emotionally manipulate and wage war on the minds of the folks who were fools, i.e., the majority in a “democracy” who gleefully voted themselves into a trap under influence of the created reward system that had them getting feedback that told them they are the good people.
    - StopDisinfo910 1y ago
      > tyranny and authoritarian control Care to explain how a state providing an official way to allow its citizen to prove they are who they say they are and avoid identity usurpation on the internet is somehow tyrannical and authoritarian? That seems like a valuable public service to me.
  - graemep 1y ago
    I have come across people arguing that it is fine because a lot of European countries have ID cards and its not a problem because "no one is suffering" (to quote one person).
- randunel 1y ago
  EU's digital ID depends on EU citizens having either a Google account, or an Apple account https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-doc-technical-specification/discussions/19 https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-doc-technic...
  - isodev 1y ago
    To be clear, the digital wallet app is just a way to manage your government issued eID. Both the wallet app you link to and eID are based on the EIDAS spec. The wallet doesn't supersede or replace your country's apps unless the country opts for that. For example in Belgium, we have a robust selection of apps and the non-phone approach using a USB card reader. The use-case for age verification is not a law yet, the EC has only produced a blueprint which means that this will probably not be adopted by everyone before EIDAS is fully implemented.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - ozgrakkurt 1y ago
    This has to be one of the funniest things I read. People who approved this have to be soft in the head. Also saw some of my countries government’s webpages have google analytics scripts. I’m guessing they didn’t even get a bribe for that, it is really ..
  - mariusor 1y ago
    I think that presenting this as "fait accompli" is incorrect. I don't think actual development even started on anything.
ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
Another way to manipulate politicians: "Gee, dat dere shore is a nice marriage ya gots dere. It'd shore be a shame, if da wifey wuz t' find out about ya mistress..." That was pretty much how J. Edgar Hoover was able to grab Congress by the short hairs for years.

mrtksn 1y ago

What is the EU digital ID fiasco?

Simulacra 1y ago
Apologies, Britain is forcing digital ID for all citizens for Internet access. This is also been discussed at the European Parliament level, and there's a significant amount of public black lash. That's the fiasco, I should've been more specific.
- norman784 1y ago
  AFAIK the digital ID will also be required when getting a new job.
  - hkt 1y ago
    In the UK's case, ID has been required to get a new job or rent a house for a decade.
    - whywhywhywhy 1y ago
      ok so why the need for the digital one if we already have one
      - ajsnigrutin 1y ago
        Because requiring an ID to register for eg. a facebook account is hard... how do you input your physical card into a computer? There's potential for abuse when taking a photo of it, and as soon as one photo of an ID appears online, everyone can use that. By having people get digital IDs, you can require them to use it when registering for social network accounts, etc., because it's already in their phones and requires just one tap to 'sign' the account with your real identity. Want to complain about a local politician on r/uk on reddit? You'll need a valid UK account to even post there, and it'll be tied to your real name. Want to join a discord? You need UK ID and your real identity tied to it. Organizing a protest? Well, your real name is there, the police will be visiting soon.
      - pjc50 1y ago
        Very good question, isn't it. The point of the policy is to make headlines. Implementation is a messy detail for the future.
      - Nab443 1y ago
        Easier to store more information while preventing any non authorized to access them, like signing keys and biometrics ?
- wizzwizz4 1y ago
  You're still conflating a few things. The UK government wants to require digital ID for employment, with housing etc to follow. People on HN suspect the plan is to combine that with the Online Safety Act internet identification requirements, but no such plans have been announced as far as I'm aware.
  - masfuerte 1y ago
    When Starmer announced digital ID he also talked about the regulation of social media. Sure, nobody has confirmed the plan, but the two things are clearly connected in the prime minister's thinking. On the other hand, according to The Times yesterday the cabinet isn't happy with digital ID. It's as obvious to them as it is to everyone else that digital ID won't make a jot of difference to illegal working. And may well lose them votes.
  - octo888 1y ago
    Yes the idea is to get ahead of things you are opposed to instead of waiting for it to be law already, so you can try to prevent or shape it
  - graemep 1y ago
    The UK is also shortly going to require all children to have a digital identifier to be used across government services. That also clears a path to a digital ID. The government has also talked about making drivings licences digital (i.e. apps) People suspect a lot more than it being used in conjunction with the OSA. it can be extended in all sorts of ways. Once available it will be used for more and more. It is not necessary for employment and housing as there are already documents that can be checked on the rare occasions people rent housing or get a new job. It is only worth doing if it is something people will use daily. Essentially people will be coerced into carrying a Google or Apple smartphone with the ID app on it.
    - wizzwizz4 1y ago
      > The UK is also shortly going to require all children to have a digital identifier to be used across government services. I hadn't heard about that one. Source?
- pjc50 1y ago
  In case you missed it, the UK is no longer part of the EU. It is doing this under its own steam, or perhaps that of lobbyists.
  - harvey9 1y ago
    The current UK PM campaigned to remain in the EU and I doubt he has ever done anything under his own steam. The lobbyists in this case are led by the Tony Blair Institute - Mr Blair tried to introduce id cards when he was PM.
- hopelite 1y ago
  I sometimes wonder what people think who previously would have verbally accosted and ridiculed others who warned of this very state of things coming about, being made identifiable online in a country/society where the government has already also rolled out a panopticon of surveillance and clandestine perception and thought control, where privacy does not exist in public either anymore. It doesn’t really matter either way because the tyranny and authoritarian control will descend upon people regardless; but do they at least have some kind of guilt, maybe shame, or even realize they are also guilty, not just in basically helping their own enemy, the people in charge of the government implementing these things? Or do they simply in a somewhat typical narcissistic way just hand wave it away and generously absolve themselves of any guilt and responsibility for the misery they are/will be responsible for? Turns out the “…fools, and even the ambitious…” were also the “…traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely…”. It was a stroke of genius to psychologically and emotionally manipulate and wage war on the minds of the folks who were fools, i.e., the majority in a “democracy” who gleefully voted themselves into a trap under influence of the created reward system that had them getting feedback that told them they are the good people.
  - StopDisinfo910 1y ago
    > tyranny and authoritarian control Care to explain how a state providing an official way to allow its citizen to prove they are who they say they are and avoid identity usurpation on the internet is somehow tyrannical and authoritarian? That seems like a valuable public service to me.
- graemep 1y ago
  I have come across people arguing that it is fine because a lot of European countries have ID cards and its not a problem because "no one is suffering" (to quote one person).
randunel 1y ago
EU's digital ID depends on EU citizens having either a Google account, or an Apple account https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-doc-technical-specification/discussions/19 https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-doc-technic...
- isodev 1y ago
  To be clear, the digital wallet app is just a way to manage your government issued eID. Both the wallet app you link to and eID are based on the EIDAS spec. The wallet doesn't supersede or replace your country's apps unless the country opts for that. For example in Belgium, we have a robust selection of apps and the non-phone approach using a USB card reader. The use-case for age verification is not a law yet, the EC has only produced a blueprint which means that this will probably not be adopted by everyone before EIDAS is fully implemented.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- ozgrakkurt 1y ago
  This has to be one of the funniest things I read. People who approved this have to be soft in the head. Also saw some of my countries government’s webpages have google analytics scripts. I’m guessing they didn’t even get a bribe for that, it is really ..
- mariusor 1y ago
  I think that presenting this as "fait accompli" is incorrect. I don't think actual development even started on anything.

ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago

Another way to manipulate politicians: "Gee, dat dere shore is a nice marriage ya gots dere. It'd shore be a shame, if da wifey wuz t' find out about ya mistress..." That was pretty much how J. Edgar Hoover was able to grab Congress by the short hairs for years.