7 ms·

Also, everyone has to mask at work.

by fmbb 1y ago

ActorNightly 1y ago
If you feel like this, you may be on the spectrum (not an insult btw). Masking for neuro typical people is very easy, even if emotionally draining. My wife is the perfect example - her personality is to be nice to everyone and to connect with people. A lot of times this leads to prolonged conversations with people, which then she complains about, but its basically like saying you are tired after going on a long bike ride - there is some enjoyment in the activity. Whereas for neuro-spicy people, masking is the equivalent of spilling seeds on the floor and having to pick up each one with tweezers to put them back. Its both exhausting and not enjoyable.
- idiotsecant 1y ago
  Yes, it's performing tasks in software that most people perform in hardware.
- gffrd 1y ago
  No, parent is right: everybody "masks" at work. Call it putting on a persona, playing a role, whatever - but as you said, it's less effortful for some than others.
  - ActorNightly 1y ago
    I wouldn't even say its less effort. Its a whole different kind of effort. A social neurotypical person willingly engages in interactions and "masks". A person on the spectrum only engages because they have to.
    - SchemaLoad 1y ago
      For me masking at work is more boring than it is effort. Most coworkers i've encountered are so plain that the moment you start discussing something personal that isn't the most sanitised hobby ever they get funny. Tell them you spent the weekend at an illegal rave or getting drunk at a furry convention and they start to freak out. It's no effort to not talk about this but it also means there's basically nothing to discuss.
      - acureau 1y ago
        Life's too short for bullshitting. Why not just speak your mind and avoid the people who react that way? I've found that if I sanitize my words I get sanitized responses, and vice versa. Nobody is as boring as they seem.
- lxgr 1y ago
  Everybody has a social battery, but while some are working with a USB PD 240W monster you can't take on an airplane, others have to get by with an iPhone Air (and they can't disable background refresh).
  - Dylan16807 1y ago
    While I understand your point, the air has a very good battery life and beats the 16 and 16 pro. If you recharge at night, that's a lot of socializing.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
- Glyptodon 1y ago
  It's true that different people require different amounts of effort to do and approach it with different tactics, but fundamentally almost nobody streams their inner monologue straight out of their lips, and I think when it does happen is actually much more associated with TBI and inhibition disregulation than ASD. (Which is not to say that it doesn't require a different approach or more effort for those with ASD.)
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
ants_everywhere 1y ago
This is because autistism advocacy groups misuse the word mask. It is supposed to refer to extra work you have to do playing a specific persona. E.g. at a party pretending to be a character from a movie or a book. And especially trying to force yourself to become that persona to fit in. A lot of people in the advocacy space use it to mean basic things like being well behaved or being nice to people. Everybody has to be well-behaved at work. Everybody has to consider the feelings of others etc. The idea of "wearing a mask" in the sense of being polite is older than the notion of masking in autism. For example, P. G. Wodehouse used it a few times in the 1920s to refer to the social expectations made on aristocratic families. E.g. from 1922: > I didn’t like the chap, but we Woosters can wear the mask. I beamed a bit. In this sense everyone masks. In fact they mask almost all the time from the time they get up until maybe the time they go to bad. Masking in autism originally referred to something different that was specific to autism. The way it's used now it essentially just means "it's harder for me to fit in." Which is true but doesn't tell you anything about autism from a psychological point of view beyond the obvious fact that it's harder for us to fit in.
- xp84 1y ago
  > people in the advocacy space use it to mean basic things like being well behaved or being nice to people Thank you for this comment. As a family member of a young AuDHD person I am continually battered by a combination of their behavior (which directly and un-ignorably degrades the experience of everyone around) and by various 'advocacy' ideas that use phrasing like that to not-so-subtly imply that it's actually our bad for daring to expect to "not be hit," or to not be forced to constantly base our whole lives on one person's preferences, etc. It's tough sometimes to figure out what's real, what's a fair expectation, what's something that can be learned/unlearned, and what's just inevitable.
  - VHRanger 1y ago
    Having had personal experience with this problem, there is actually a simple but difficult solution to your problem: Focus in the effect if the person's action on you, and set hard boundaries for yourself. Note that boundaries are in this specific form: "If you do X in Y situation, I will do Z" The consequence to the instigating person (the Z part) is important. The person you described likely has a deficit in empathy, so feedback on actions has to happen to modify behavior. Note that I'm not saying to hit back. Consequences are generally best when withdrawing something of value than adding something of negative value. For example: "If we're watching a movie and you are physically rowdy, you will have to leave the living room and entertain yourself in your room". Focua on how things affect you, and what actions you can take in response to boundary breaking behavior. Then be ruthlessly firm and consistent about it.
jlhawn 1y ago
Yep... If I didn't mask while at work and home, I'd probably be annoying my family and coworkers with state and local land use politics issues all the time.
ilikecakeandpie 1y ago
Yeah this is a thing that gets me. Everyone has to mask because otherwise there'd be a more conflict over shit that doesn't matter then there likely already is during meetings and stuff. Some of the messaging too is just... off-putting/patronizing. "Brave the grocery store"? I know social situations can be tough on people but it's not you're being asked to kill the chicken and process it or grow the veggies. Is resiliency so low that it's a battle to go pick up necessities? Maybe I was blessed to grow up in a poor, not exactly stable household at least for a while.
- gridspy 1y ago
  It's harder than you think. - Go into a bright, commercial space - All the packets are "shouting" at you with colorful labels - There is noise of shoppers, a PA system, canned music and/or advertising - Navigate lots of social interactions with other shoppers around navigating asiles, manouvering carts, who picks what - Manage a shopping list and find a variety of goods - Go to the check-out asile. Hopefully you can avoid interacting with a human - Manage packing bags and paying - Hopefully noone talks to you as you leave
  - esseph 1y ago
    You just described my shopping experiences.
  - encrypted_bird 1y ago
    _Thank_ you. I'm seeing a LOT of people in this thread who do not understand autism at _all_ and yet claim it's really not much different than neurotypical people's experience. "Why should x situation be like y difficulty? I don't understand." "No, you _don't_ understand, because you're not autistic. Which isn't really an insult but it is the case. So why you gotta brush off our struggles like you do get it." Being autistic is exhausting on a _whole different level_. It is NOT comparable to neurotypicals' experiences except superficially.
  - gusgus01 1y ago
    For anyone who feels this way about the grocery store, I'd highly recommend curbside pickup or online ordering. Some stores are getting rid of it, but plenty still offer it. If you live in a large enough city, grocery delivery can also pretty competitive in pricing if you're willing to negotiate on brands.
mootothemax 1y ago
Is it that common to upset people at work and have absolutely no clue why or how or what you’ve done? And not from a lack of trying, and definitely not because you don’t care? Because to me, that’s what masking means: constantly checking yourself because you do care, and you do like people, and the last thing you ever want to do is hurt or upset someone, and yet sometimes you do, and that sucks, and you learn from it, file it away in your mind for next time, and wake up the next day with the same happy-go-lucky optimism you do every day until the world beats it out of you.
userbinator 1y ago
Your sentence took me back to 5 years ago.

Also, everyone has to mask at work.

by fmbb 1y ago

Also, everyone has to mask at work.

If you feel like this, you may be on the spectrum (not an insult btw). Masking for neuro typical people is very easy, even if emotionally draining. My wife is the perfect example - her personality is to be nice to everyone and to connect with people. A lot of times this leads to prolonged conversations with people, which then she complains about, but its basically like saying you are tired after going on a long bike ride - there is some enjoyment in the activity. Whereas for neuro-spicy people, masking is the equivalent of spilling seeds on the floor and having to pick up each one with tweezers to put them back. Its both exhausting and not enjoyable.

idiotsecant 1y ago
Yes, it's performing tasks in software that most people perform in hardware.
gffrd 1y ago
No, parent is right: everybody "masks" at work. Call it putting on a persona, playing a role, whatever - but as you said, it's less effortful for some than others.
- ActorNightly 1y ago
  I wouldn't even say its less effort. Its a whole different kind of effort. A social neurotypical person willingly engages in interactions and "masks". A person on the spectrum only engages because they have to.
  - SchemaLoad 1y ago
    For me masking at work is more boring than it is effort. Most coworkers i've encountered are so plain that the moment you start discussing something personal that isn't the most sanitised hobby ever they get funny. Tell them you spent the weekend at an illegal rave or getting drunk at a furry convention and they start to freak out. It's no effort to not talk about this but it also means there's basically nothing to discuss.
    - acureau 1y ago
      Life's too short for bullshitting. Why not just speak your mind and avoid the people who react that way? I've found that if I sanitize my words I get sanitized responses, and vice versa. Nobody is as boring as they seem.
lxgr 1y ago
Everybody has a social battery, but while some are working with a USB PD 240W monster you can't take on an airplane, others have to get by with an iPhone Air (and they can't disable background refresh).
- Dylan16807 1y ago
  While I understand your point, the air has a very good battery life and beats the 16 and 16 pro. If you recharge at night, that's a lot of socializing.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
Glyptodon 1y ago
It's true that different people require different amounts of effort to do and approach it with different tactics, but fundamentally almost nobody streams their inner monologue straight out of their lips, and I think when it does happen is actually much more associated with TBI and inhibition disregulation than ASD. (Which is not to say that it doesn't require a different approach or more effort for those with ASD.)
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

ants_everywhere 1y ago

This is because autistism advocacy groups misuse the word mask. It is supposed to refer to extra work you have to do playing a specific persona. E.g. at a party pretending to be a character from a movie or a book. And especially trying to force yourself to become that persona to fit in. A lot of people in the advocacy space use it to mean basic things like being well behaved or being nice to people. Everybody has to be well-behaved at work. Everybody has to consider the feelings of others etc. The idea of "wearing a mask" in the sense of being polite is older than the notion of masking in autism. For example, P. G. Wodehouse used it a few times in the 1920s to refer to the social expectations made on aristocratic families. E.g. from 1922: > I didn’t like the chap, but we Woosters can wear the mask. I beamed a bit. In this sense everyone masks. In fact they mask almost all the time from the time they get up until maybe the time they go to bad. Masking in autism originally referred to something different that was specific to autism. The way it's used now it essentially just means "it's harder for me to fit in." Which is true but doesn't tell you anything about autism from a psychological point of view beyond the obvious fact that it's harder for us to fit in.

xp84 1y ago
> people in the advocacy space use it to mean basic things like being well behaved or being nice to people Thank you for this comment. As a family member of a young AuDHD person I am continually battered by a combination of their behavior (which directly and un-ignorably degrades the experience of everyone around) and by various 'advocacy' ideas that use phrasing like that to not-so-subtly imply that it's actually our bad for daring to expect to "not be hit," or to not be forced to constantly base our whole lives on one person's preferences, etc. It's tough sometimes to figure out what's real, what's a fair expectation, what's something that can be learned/unlearned, and what's just inevitable.
- VHRanger 1y ago
  Having had personal experience with this problem, there is actually a simple but difficult solution to your problem: Focus in the effect if the person's action on you, and set hard boundaries for yourself. Note that boundaries are in this specific form: "If you do X in Y situation, I will do Z" The consequence to the instigating person (the Z part) is important. The person you described likely has a deficit in empathy, so feedback on actions has to happen to modify behavior. Note that I'm not saying to hit back. Consequences are generally best when withdrawing something of value than adding something of negative value. For example: "If we're watching a movie and you are physically rowdy, you will have to leave the living room and entertain yourself in your room". Focua on how things affect you, and what actions you can take in response to boundary breaking behavior. Then be ruthlessly firm and consistent about it.

jlhawn 1y ago

Yep... If I didn't mask while at work and home, I'd probably be annoying my family and coworkers with state and local land use politics issues all the time.

ilikecakeandpie 1y ago

Yeah this is a thing that gets me. Everyone has to mask because otherwise there'd be a more conflict over shit that doesn't matter then there likely already is during meetings and stuff. Some of the messaging too is just... off-putting/patronizing. "Brave the grocery store"? I know social situations can be tough on people but it's not you're being asked to kill the chicken and process it or grow the veggies. Is resiliency so low that it's a battle to go pick up necessities? Maybe I was blessed to grow up in a poor, not exactly stable household at least for a while.

gridspy 1y ago
It's harder than you think. - Go into a bright, commercial space - All the packets are "shouting" at you with colorful labels - There is noise of shoppers, a PA system, canned music and/or advertising - Navigate lots of social interactions with other shoppers around navigating asiles, manouvering carts, who picks what - Manage a shopping list and find a variety of goods - Go to the check-out asile. Hopefully you can avoid interacting with a human - Manage packing bags and paying - Hopefully noone talks to you as you leave
- esseph 1y ago
  You just described my shopping experiences.
- encrypted_bird 1y ago
  _Thank_ you. I'm seeing a LOT of people in this thread who do not understand autism at _all_ and yet claim it's really not much different than neurotypical people's experience. "Why should x situation be like y difficulty? I don't understand." "No, you _don't_ understand, because you're not autistic. Which isn't really an insult but it is the case. So why you gotta brush off our struggles like you do get it." Being autistic is exhausting on a _whole different level_. It is NOT comparable to neurotypicals' experiences except superficially.
- gusgus01 1y ago
  For anyone who feels this way about the grocery store, I'd highly recommend curbside pickup or online ordering. Some stores are getting rid of it, but plenty still offer it. If you live in a large enough city, grocery delivery can also pretty competitive in pricing if you're willing to negotiate on brands.

mootothemax 1y ago

Is it that common to upset people at work and have absolutely no clue why or how or what you’ve done? And not from a lack of trying, and definitely not because you don’t care? Because to me, that’s what masking means: constantly checking yourself because you do care, and you do like people, and the last thing you ever want to do is hurt or upset someone, and yet sometimes you do, and that sucks, and you learn from it, file it away in your mind for next time, and wake up the next day with the same happy-go-lucky optimism you do every day until the world beats it out of you.

userbinator 1y ago

Your sentence took me back to 5 years ago.