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Walmart U.S. moves to eliminate synthetic dyes across all private brand foods
- robotnikman 1y agoGood, there is a reason why just about every other country outlaws these.
- sensen 1y agoCan you clearly state what that reason is? The only reason stated in the article is that this move "is in line with evolving customer preferences and in support of a more transparent food system".
- 4d4m 1y agoThey're mainly petrochemicals and were dubiously granted protected status. Lots of colors are poisions, read "A Rainbow of Risks" - great paper on documented problems with these
- eYrKEC2 1y agoSome dyes _have_ been found to be carcinogenic and outlawed in the USA, even prior to this administration. From there, you then apply the "precautionary principle" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precautionary_principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precautionary_principle .
- justonceokay 1y ago[flagged]
- dang 1y agoPlease don't post unsubstantive comments. Please especially don't do that when a thread is new, because threads are sensitive to initial conditions.
- fabian2k 1y agoMy understanding is that there are somewhat more restrictive regulations on food dyes in the EU compared to the US. But that overall there isn't a big concern about the majority of these dyes. There also isn't a fundamental difference between a synthetic and a natural dye. Okay, humans are more likely to have encountered a natural dye during their evolution and adapted to ingesting them. But that is unlikely to matter to all kinds of dyes, and also wouldn't filter out any health effects that don't affect reproductive fitness. Treating a whole category of molecules this way does not make sense. It makes sense to evaluate the health effects of individual dyes. But that is not unique to synthetic dyes.
- themafia 1y ago> It makes sense to evaluate the health effects of individual dyes I wonder if changing the color of food is actually that important.
- psunavy03 1y agoAh, yes. The "I don't think anyone needs to do this, therefore no one needs to do this" argument.
- themafia 1y agoHardly. I'm openly wondering. If you _need_ to do this, then please, by all means, share that with us here now.
- jabroni_salad 1y agoI was looking at this paper which seems to have a bunch of citations. Different colors are associated with different flavors in certain countries. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s13411-015-0031-3#Fig4 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s13411-015-0031-3#... But yes I think the food color is ultimately important to succeeding in the marketplace and we aren't going to be getting rid of food dyes in manufactured food anytime soon.
- brightball 1y ago[flagged]
- ugh123 1y agoHe's right about dyes. Anything else?
- Eric_WVGG 1y agoyeah, kids scarfing down the same cheeto’s minus synthetic orange is probably worth a polio epidemic
- fabian2k 1y agoYears down the road, when US children are dying from easily preventable childhood diseases. Nothing RFK Jr. might do will outweigh the death and suffering he will cause by restricting and maligning vaccines today.
- janice1999 1y ago83 deaths at least and counting.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Samoa_measles_outbreak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Samoa_measles_outbreak
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- Analemma_ 1y agoI predict that years down the road, a high-quality randomized study of Walmart versus non-Walmart shoppers will show that this move had no impact whatsoever on human health. I'm happy to make this a formal wager with you if you want.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- sensen 1y ago> We won’t see the full effect of his efforts until years down the road. What are the expected outcomes of this change? What are the efforts that are driving this? The linked article cites consumer preferences as a primary driver for removing synthetic dyes, not any FDA regulations enforcing their removal.
- syntaxing 1y agoSynthetic and “natural” is so hazy. What’s the difference between a dye that’s synthetically made and one where we crush up bugs and extract the same exact chemical (real thing.). Why don’t we just eliminate most dyes overall…
- giancarlostoro 1y agoYou will eat the bugs...
- syntaxing 1y agoI have some bad news for you if that bothers you https://www.livescience.com/36292-red-food-dye-bugs-cochineal-carmine.html https://www.livescience.com/36292-red-food-dye-bugs-cochinea.... That’s where “natural” dye comes from
- giancarlostoro 1y agoInteresting read! At least it's not cockroaches. The bugs look like raspberries funnily enough.
- colechristensen 1y agoEh. Being honest with dyes there's a pretty strong distinction between "natural" dyes going through several extraction and purification steps but remaining more or less the same intact molecule found in something alive. "Synthetic" dyes being the result of a long chain of steps and intermediate molecules which are usually ultimately sourced from things like air, petroleum, and seawater. Science literacy is bad so people have problems articulating the issue of concern which is "it is fair to have concerns about novel chemicals making their way into the food supply which evolution has not had a chance to address", not that something not found in nature is automatically bad but that such things need to be introduced carefully. People don't know science though so everything is turning into "if it's not found in nature it is a monster and unclean", which to be honest is fair to a degree for people who don't know being forced to accept things blindly and asked to trust that everything is fine from people who would gladly disregard dangers in exchange for a fraction of a cent in profit margin. That doesn't mean they're making good decisions just that their fear is justified.
- j45 1y agoHope this spreads to other countries.
- krunck 1y agoIf RFK gets his way there will certainly be things spreading to other countries.
- timeinput 1y agoWhich other countries? I'm sure I'm simplifying things, but I think this ban is common practice at this point in most of the EU, Canada. Where else is hypercouloring cereal common?
- j45 1y agoThe food additive laws vary a great deal between countries, even US/Canada/UK/EU/Japan. It's pretty eye opening. A side effect is these substances may continue to be distributed in other countries.
- brynet 1y agoI participated in some consumer testing when Kellogg's Canada was switching their breakfast cereals to natural colours. Beyond some muted colours, the cereal tasted exactly the same. Seemed like a no brainer, really.
- Workaccount2 1y agoIIRC they switched to natural dyes in 2017, but sales fell because average people are "shiny object" driven. So they reverted it.
- brynet 1y agoNot that I'm aware of.. The product I tested was after 2017 is still advertised here in Canada with natural colours, made with fruit juices. The US parent company is also committing to it as well. https://www.wkkellogg.com/our-impact/make-eating-well-easy/quality-safety https://www.wkkellogg.com/our-impact/make-eating-well-easy/q...
- Workaccount2 1y agoSorry, it was actually general mills who did this. https://www.fooddive.com/news/silly-general-mills-artificial-colors-are-coming-back-to-trix/505619/ https://www.fooddive.com/news/silly-general-mills-artificial...
- Freedom2 1y agoWas it just the US who enjoyed brighter, shinier and arguably "faker" things, or did other countries also experience sales drops when other brands removed artificial coloring? I'm curious (as in HN curious discussion) whether this points to something greater about US culture.
- allears 1y agoGenerally, I tend to eat natural foods. I have for decades. They just taste better. Dyes are mostly used in processed foods, because otherwise they would look unappealing next to fresh natural food. And for a very good reason. All that is to say, doesn't much matter to me what they regulate, I eat hardly any of that stuff anyway.
- hermannj314 1y agoIf China stops buying our soybeans, we can start planting other things. Aren't natural food dyes just a great way to encourage diversity in domestic agriculture? I am not an expert in synthetic vs. natural, but I feel like this decision isn't actually about health (I don't see any reason to believe why Wal-Mart cares at all about the health of Americans) but rather some larger macroeconomic reality.
- colechristensen 1y agoUgh. THE SAME NUMBER OF SOYBEANS ARE GETTING CONSUMED. If China is buying South American soybeans instead of US soybeans than whoever was buying from South America is going to buy from the US because it's not like 8 million tons of soybeans per month are magically getting created in Brazil. It's not that there will be no market effect but it's pretty close to a zero sum game because the global production and consumption of soy really isn't changing that much.
- beart 1y agoWhy are farmers asking for a bailout, claiming no one is buying their soy beans?
- viewtransform 1y ago<it's not like 8 million tons of soybeans per month are magically getting created in Brazil> Brazil increase in production this year is 5.3 million metric tons. So looks like Brazil can replace US exports to China without affecting existing customers. Brazil’s 2025/26 Soy Crop Seen Growing 3% Versus the Previous Cycle https://www.agriculture.com/partners-brazil-s-2025-26-soy-crop-seen-growing-3-versus-the-previous-cycle-says-agresource-11796659 https://www.agriculture.com/partners-brazil-s-2025-26-soy-cr...
- rogerrogerr 1y ago> month > year
- porridgeraisin 1y ago
- 4d4m 1y agoWhat a HUGE win for everyone's health. Kudos.
- rapjr9 1y agoIndeed. So what is missing from the list? Perhaps emulsifiers?
- 4d4m 1y agoAbsolutely. I found out late in life that emulsifiers like soy lethicin are awful for us. Take those out next please
- oarfish 1y agoBased on what evidence? Not against removing unnecessary stuff from food, but lets be real about the effects.
- ck2 1y agoit's already easy to eat and drink things without any dyes or even artificial flavoring (except OTC medication always has that nonsense, but now my advil is also dye-free) but Neil deGrasse Tyson explains the life-expectancy of people back when everything was natural and organic https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMpuL2GMQSd/embed/ https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMpuL2GMQSd/embed/
- inquirerGeneral 1y ago[dead]
- cadamsdotcom 1y agoWe are exposed to so much anti-customer behavior thanks to HN. But this move is a shining example of alignment between customers and a commercial entity. Businesses doing things in line with customer preferences is exciting to see.
- KolibriFly 1y agoI'll be curious to see how they define "synthetic" and what ingredients make the cut or get quietly swapped in
- kipchak 1y agoAldi US did the same back in 2015.
- li2uR3ce 1y agoWe should use lead pipes because they are made from naturally occurring lead. Synthetic PEX pipes have to go because: synthetic.
- _e8at 1y agoTruth be told they both probably leech chemicals into the water supply.
- disattention 1y agoSeems inconsistent to say "truth be told" before "probably". These sorts of vibes based statements cloud conversation and confuse the scientifically illiterate who are quick to attach truth to belief.
- _e8at 1y agoCan someone please explain to me why people are so hostile to this? Like even if you don't care, why would people be against putting less chemicals in food?
- eYrKEC2 1y agoWho, whom?
- aeonik 1y agoBecause chemistry is awesome, and chemicals give us amazing modern super powers. Also, everything is a chemical. A subset of both natural and artificial chemicals cause cancer, we should identify those carcinogens and not eat those. At least not too much.
- kelipso 1y agoTheir brains go to mush from the US left-right politics divide is why.
- captainzidgel 1y agoAgreed. We must eliminate dangerous chemicals like dihydrogen monoxide from our food!
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- hshdhdhj4444 1y agoThis is good but the effects are also highly marginal. The key change would be if the U.S. moved to the EU system where a new food needs to be proven to be safe before it can be sold as opposed to the current system where a new food is assumed to be safe until proven otherwise. That is the systemic shift that’s actually important and would have automatically handled the dyes issue as well.