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This is just an ad that doesn't even describe what their proposed solution is. "We don't like Figma. We don't like designers and developers being split. So w

This is just an ad that doesn't even describe what their proposed solution is. "We don't like Figma. We don't like designers and developers being split. So we built and are selling.... Another tool for mocking UI designs"?

dmix 1y ago
Having worked with Figmas from pure UI-designers that translation to HTML/CSS is not at all as straightforward as they like to pretend. I don't know about this startup's product but based on their homepage having (real) HTML/CSS output as a core part of the creation process would have helped me many times. Designers need to be constrained. Expecting designers to know how to build production websites in html/css/js before designing is apparently a step people skip over these days. It creates meaningless design and dev cycles + tons of extra approval meetings by marketing/execs.
- marcosdumay 1y ago
  It always bothered me that people got in the trouble of making a web-app, that generates designs, and those designs are not plain web pages. I guess one could create a really good tool where UI designers make a real web reusable pattern language, and UX designers specialize them into a set of templates the software developers can actually apply.
  - robenkleene 1y ago
    > It always bothered me that people got in the trouble of making a web-app, that generates designs, and those designs are not plain web pages. Figma isn't a web app in the traditional sense of the word, it's a C++ app with a WebAssembly compile target. https://www.figma.com/blog/webassembly-cut-figmas-load-time-by-3x/ https://www.figma.com/blog/webassembly-cut-figmas-load-time-... E.g., it's more similar to how Adobe Illustrator and other C++ graphics programs render content than it is how a web browser engine renders HTML and CSS.
    - fragmede 1y ago
      That's an implementation details and doesn't answer the higher level product incongruency. Tool A, used to design for technology B, doesn't output files in technology B format. It's fine to point out that Tool a uses technology C under the hood, but that's the tail wagging the dog, and doesn't make sense, even if there's an explanation for it.
      - robenkleene 1y ago
        Sure, but I was interpreting the parent comment as implying the underlying technology was important to the output format: > people got in the trouble of making a web-app [...] and those designs are not plain web pages.
      - robenkleene 1y ago
        To address your point specifically though, Webflow is (at least from my perspective) the inevitable result of the line of thinking you're pursuing. So I'd be curious what you think of Figma vs. Webflow, and why those two products have their relative market positions. I.e., "Tool A, used to design for technology B, doesn't output files in technology B format. [...] doesn't make much sense". E.g., why not just use Webflow then? From my understanding, that's what it does, that's what it's made for.
        fragmede 1y ago
        Figma got where they are because their collaboration features are Google docs level. They also got enterprise buy-in, and target design more broadly than simply website building. (As far I understand. I'm not a professional designer.)
        robenkleene 1y ago
        > Figma got where they are because their collaboration features are Google docs level. I’d argue Figma got where they are mainly by streamlining the handoff process, not because of their live editing collaboration features per se. But there isn’t really an empirical way to validate this. But my point is really if you want to export natively to the web, just use, promote, etc... WebFlow that's the tool designed for that job. > [Figma targets] design more broadly than simply website building. This is absolutely true, but I’d argue it’s impossible to be able to both target many platforms, and simultaneously be able to export to all those platforms natively. I.e., you have to build the constraints of a specific platform into your tool in order to export to that format. This is what WebFlow is (and using it for just 5 minutes makes clear the trade-offs of designing a tool like that).
ludicrousdispla 1y ago
My first and last experience with Figma was that it required a user to import existing designs in order to do anything useful, such as 'share them with the team' . I was surprised at that given its hype as a design tool but then realized the name must have been carefully chosen. I will definitely be checking Nordcraft out.
- AndreasMoeller 1y ago
  Thanks! It is a very different tool than Figma. In Nordcraft designers and developers work together in the same tool.
AndreasMoeller 1y ago
https://nordcraft.com https://nordcraft.com

dmix 1y ago

Having worked with Figmas from pure UI-designers that translation to HTML/CSS is not at all as straightforward as they like to pretend. I don't know about this startup's product but based on their homepage having (real) HTML/CSS output as a core part of the creation process would have helped me many times. Designers need to be constrained. Expecting designers to know how to build production websites in html/css/js before designing is apparently a step people skip over these days. It creates meaningless design and dev cycles + tons of extra approval meetings by marketing/execs.

marcosdumay 1y ago
It always bothered me that people got in the trouble of making a web-app, that generates designs, and those designs are not plain web pages. I guess one could create a really good tool where UI designers make a real web reusable pattern language, and UX designers specialize them into a set of templates the software developers can actually apply.
- robenkleene 1y ago
  > It always bothered me that people got in the trouble of making a web-app, that generates designs, and those designs are not plain web pages. Figma isn't a web app in the traditional sense of the word, it's a C++ app with a WebAssembly compile target. https://www.figma.com/blog/webassembly-cut-figmas-load-time-by-3x/ https://www.figma.com/blog/webassembly-cut-figmas-load-time-... E.g., it's more similar to how Adobe Illustrator and other C++ graphics programs render content than it is how a web browser engine renders HTML and CSS.
  - fragmede 1y ago
    That's an implementation details and doesn't answer the higher level product incongruency. Tool A, used to design for technology B, doesn't output files in technology B format. It's fine to point out that Tool a uses technology C under the hood, but that's the tail wagging the dog, and doesn't make sense, even if there's an explanation for it.
    - robenkleene 1y ago
      Sure, but I was interpreting the parent comment as implying the underlying technology was important to the output format: > people got in the trouble of making a web-app [...] and those designs are not plain web pages.
    - robenkleene 1y ago
      To address your point specifically though, Webflow is (at least from my perspective) the inevitable result of the line of thinking you're pursuing. So I'd be curious what you think of Figma vs. Webflow, and why those two products have their relative market positions. I.e., "Tool A, used to design for technology B, doesn't output files in technology B format. [...] doesn't make much sense". E.g., why not just use Webflow then? From my understanding, that's what it does, that's what it's made for.
      - fragmede 1y ago
        Figma got where they are because their collaboration features are Google docs level. They also got enterprise buy-in, and target design more broadly than simply website building. (As far I understand. I'm not a professional designer.)
        robenkleene 1y ago
        > Figma got where they are because their collaboration features are Google docs level. I’d argue Figma got where they are mainly by streamlining the handoff process, not because of their live editing collaboration features per se. But there isn’t really an empirical way to validate this. But my point is really if you want to export natively to the web, just use, promote, etc... WebFlow that's the tool designed for that job. > [Figma targets] design more broadly than simply website building. This is absolutely true, but I’d argue it’s impossible to be able to both target many platforms, and simultaneously be able to export to all those platforms natively. I.e., you have to build the constraints of a specific platform into your tool in order to export to that format. This is what WebFlow is (and using it for just 5 minutes makes clear the trade-offs of designing a tool like that).

ludicrousdispla 1y ago

My first and last experience with Figma was that it required a user to import existing designs in order to do anything useful, such as 'share them with the team' . I was surprised at that given its hype as a design tool but then realized the name must have been carefully chosen. I will definitely be checking Nordcraft out.

AndreasMoeller 1y ago
Thanks! It is a very different tool than Figma. In Nordcraft designers and developers work together in the same tool.

AndreasMoeller 1y ago

https://nordcraft.com https://nordcraft.com