4 ms·

> I’d say if you can be jailed for a particular opinion Can you give an example of someone in a modern democracy jailed for their "opinion"? To wit, are the e

by gwd 1y ago

> I’d say if you can be jailed for a particular opinion Can you give an example of someone in a modern democracy jailed for their "opinion"? To wit, are the examples you're thinking of "statement of opinion", "statement of fact", "pejorative insult", or "incitement"? Saying "I think <public figure> is an idiot" is an opinion. "The earth is flat" or "The holocaust never happened" are not opinions; neither is, "Kick out all the <insert pejorative here>." And yeah, in North Korea you'll absolutely be jailed for expressing some opinions. That may make them illegal, but it doesn't make them no longer opinions.

xienze 1y ago
> "The holocaust never happened" are not opinions But would you dare state out loud in Germany that, in your opinion, the official number of Holocaust victims is actually much less than what's been widely reported? Even if you had what you believed was solid evidence supporting your argument? I bet you wouldn't. > neither is, "Kick out all the <insert pejorative here>." How about voicing your opinion that <people from some country> should be barred from emigrating to <European country> because <crime statistics>? Bet you wouldn't try that either, because your opinion is in "hate speech" territory now.
- freejazz 1y ago
  >Even if you had what you believed was solid evidence supporting your argument? I bet you wouldn't. Ugh, what?
- 9dev 1y ago
  Solid evidence that generations of historians have somehow overlooked? Great, let’s hear it! I can assure you that Germany would welcome anything that lifts some guilt from our collective shoulders here, so if you as opposed to a lot of smart people know the truth, we will invite you on a beer for sure.
femiagbabiaka 1y ago
https://www.counterterrorism.police.uk/man-from-harlow-jailed-for-posting-support-on-social-media-for-terrorist-groups/ https://www.counterterrorism.police.uk/man-from-harlow-jaile... https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5yl7p4l11po https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5yl7p4l11po https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_R%C3%BCmeysa_%C3%96zt%C3%BCrk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_R%C3%BCmeysa_%C3%... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Mahmoud_Khalil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Mahmoud_Khalil
- gwd 1y ago
  > Connolly, from Northampton, ...urged her followers on X to "set fire" to hotels housing asylum seekers. This isn't an opinion, it's incitement to a crime. > Detention of Rümeysa Öztürk / Mahmoud Khalil These clearly are for opinion, and are widely criticized as being vindictive and unconstitutional.
buzer 1y ago
> "The holocaust never happened" Not really an opinion but it can be a belief. I'm not sure why we are okay with people believing that Earth is ~6000 years old, but not with someone believing that we are in a simulation and everything before e.g. year 1999 is just a collective memory fabrication.
- Braxton1980 1y ago
  >Not really an opinion but it can be a belief. Yes. You can believe this fact to be false but you might also be lying. How do you show this? By showing why you believe it to be false
- IAmBroom 1y ago
  I am not "okay" with either belief, but it's not my place to police other people's beliefs - so long as they don't hurt others. If you want to visit that idiotic Noah's Ark museum, go. If you want to prohibit teaching about evolution in schools, go to hell.
whycome 1y ago
How is "the earth is flat" not an opinion? People form opinions based on the information they have (or are willing to accept). For their worldview, their opinion is valid. If they don't accept certain voices of reason, they have that right. We saw people not allowed to ask about the origins of the covid19 virus because it went against a public narrative. At the beginning of the pandemic, people who expressed that masks should be worn were rejected by even government officials. People might not have gone to jail, but they did have voices and access to society limited or removed because of their opinions.

by gwd 1y ago

xienze 1y ago

> "The holocaust never happened" are not opinions But would you dare state out loud in Germany that, in your opinion, the official number of Holocaust victims is actually much less than what's been widely reported? Even if you had what you believed was solid evidence supporting your argument? I bet you wouldn't. > neither is, "Kick out all the <insert pejorative here>." How about voicing your opinion that <people from some country> should be barred from emigrating to <European country> because <crime statistics>? Bet you wouldn't try that either, because your opinion is in "hate speech" territory now.

freejazz 1y ago
>Even if you had what you believed was solid evidence supporting your argument? I bet you wouldn't. Ugh, what?
9dev 1y ago
Solid evidence that generations of historians have somehow overlooked? Great, let’s hear it! I can assure you that Germany would welcome anything that lifts some guilt from our collective shoulders here, so if you as opposed to a lot of smart people know the truth, we will invite you on a beer for sure.

femiagbabiaka 1y ago

https://www.counterterrorism.police.uk/man-from-harlow-jailed-for-posting-support-on-social-media-for-terrorist-groups/ https://www.counterterrorism.police.uk/man-from-harlow-jaile... https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5yl7p4l11po https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5yl7p4l11po https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_R%C3%BCmeysa_%C3%96zt%C3%BCrk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_R%C3%BCmeysa_%C3%... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Mahmoud_Khalil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Mahmoud_Khalil

gwd 1y ago
> Connolly, from Northampton, ...urged her followers on X to "set fire" to hotels housing asylum seekers. This isn't an opinion, it's incitement to a crime. > Detention of Rümeysa Öztürk / Mahmoud Khalil These clearly are for opinion, and are widely criticized as being vindictive and unconstitutional.

buzer 1y ago

> "The holocaust never happened" Not really an opinion but it can be a belief. I'm not sure why we are okay with people believing that Earth is ~6000 years old, but not with someone believing that we are in a simulation and everything before e.g. year 1999 is just a collective memory fabrication.

Braxton1980 1y ago
>Not really an opinion but it can be a belief. Yes. You can believe this fact to be false but you might also be lying. How do you show this? By showing why you believe it to be false
IAmBroom 1y ago
I am not "okay" with either belief, but it's not my place to police other people's beliefs - so long as they don't hurt others. If you want to visit that idiotic Noah's Ark museum, go. If you want to prohibit teaching about evolution in schools, go to hell.

whycome 1y ago

How is "the earth is flat" not an opinion? People form opinions based on the information they have (or are willing to accept). For their worldview, their opinion is valid. If they don't accept certain voices of reason, they have that right. We saw people not allowed to ask about the origins of the covid19 virus because it went against a public narrative. At the beginning of the pandemic, people who expressed that masks should be worn were rejected by even government officials. People might not have gone to jail, but they did have voices and access to society limited or removed because of their opinions.