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It's surprising and disappointing that Apple didn't catch a bug like this in QA. This affects popular apps, and many people will have at least one of these apps

by stereo 1y ago

It's surprising and disappointing that Apple didn't catch a bug like this in QA. This affects popular apps, and many people will have at least one of these apps with outdated Electron frameworks.

lapcat 1y ago
It's not surprising. It's sadly predictable that forced annual scheduled OS updates that must ship ready or not will ship when they're not ready. Apple abandoned any commitment to QA as soon as they committed to mid-September becoming a magical date, practically written in stone.
- AlexandrB 1y ago
  What does Apple even get out of it? I don't think anyone is clamouring for new MacOS releases, so I can't imagine it drives hardware sales. MacOS is no longer a paid product either.
  - nottorp 1y ago
    They even have to provide separate updates for people that refuse to jump on the latest and greatest - NOW WITH LOW CONTRAST - version. Too bad their competition is worse. It's not like they're good any more. Btw I just checked and the assholes preselect the update to Tahoe, not the update to 15.7.1.
  - toast0 1y ago
    The regular update cadence and the lack of stability for developers sets an expectation that developers must be active (forever) or their product will stop working. That way, they never have to deal with fallout from breaking a 20 year old program like Microsoft got for breaking whatever version of GTA. There's no way a 20 year old program still runs on current macos, so nothing to worry about.
    - badc0ffee 1y ago
      I worked on some Mac security software. WWDC and that first macOS beta in June dictated whether we were going to spend the summer on features, or on compatibility with the new platform. There were a few crazy years, like file protection in Mojave, system extensions in Catalina, and Apple Silicon and other changes in Big Sur. Not to mention yearly device management changes and UI changes like dark mode, completely reworking the menu bar icon, etc. The Windows team never faced anything like this. Not only did Windows change slowly and with backward compatibility, but the users didn't upgrade right away, even if they were buying brand new laptops. But in the Mac world, a laptop bought in September/October is going to have the new macOS on it no matter what.
  - lapcat 1y ago
    I'm not sure. Perhaps Tim Cook just likes schedules, which fit naturally in his MBA brain. Or it could be that Apple previously set the expectation of annual releases and now can't stop, because getting off the update train would be a kind of indicator or admission to stockholders and the media that Apple is falling behind somehow. On the other hand, annual OS updates with updated system requirements would provide a convenient way to implement planned obsolescence of hardware. In any case, Tim Cook clearly doesn't have the same standards as Steve Jobs did. Cook will never complain, "This is shit!" As Jobs reportedly lamented, Cook is a not a product person. So QA problems are not necessarily a problem for him. I suspect that Cook actually believes everything is mostly going well, and perhaps some "metrics" tell him so, though the metrics likely ignore the fact that developers have been disillusioned and alienated by Apple's hostile bug reporting system. If I thought Apple cared and would do something, I'd file literally thousands more bug reports.
taminka 1y ago
it's been a while since you used macos? apple has completely stopped giving a shit, extremely basic functionality like spotlight and settings search have been completely broken for years now...
- densh 1y ago
  I just can't believe how dysfunctional something as basic as search over settings is now.
  - JSR_FDED 1y ago
    Specifically?
    - sleepybrett 1y ago
      [flagged]
    - densh 1y ago
      For example let's say I want to go to display settings from search. I enter 'monitor' in search since I forgot how it's called. First results: accessibility, privacy and security, control center, and only 4-th category Displays. It's 8-th line if you count sub-categories. I usually google where a particular setting is now since I don't use the exact same words and the settings search is very literal.
- jermaustin1 1y ago
  As a daily driver of MacOS, I've not notice anything being wrong with spotlight or settings. Is there something specific that is broken? I use spotlight constantly for everything, but I admit I don't use the search feature in settings all that often.
  - barbazoo 1y ago
    It’s not uncommon for me after installing apps that spotlight wont find them for a while.
cnity 1y ago
It was Electron causing a shadow repaint, not Apple: https://github.com/electron/electron/issues/48311#issuecomment-3332181420 https://github.com/electron/electron/issues/48311#issuecomme...
- m-schuetz 1y ago
  It only became an issue when Apple's update made it an issue. This is on Apple.
  - jermaustin1 1y ago
    Why is it on Apple to make sure that their private APIs (as in you SHOULDN'T USE THEM, because they will change without regard to your software) are backward compatible?
    - Ambroos 1y ago
      It's on both. Apple should probably have caught this in beta considering how widespread Electron apps are, and have worked with Electron to fix it or they should've worked around it (which Microsoft would probably have done).
      - samtheprogram 1y ago
        Electron updates already exist, it's the individual apps that need to update their version of Electron.
    - afavour 1y ago
      Because ultimately Apple is making software for its users. Something that negatively affects their users experience is something they should factor in with new releases no matter whose "fault" it is. Such is the pain of making operating systems. You're right in the purest sense: use a private API, get burnt. But when it's something this widely used and depended upon you could argue Apple should have made it into a public API by now.
    - 1y ago

by stereo 1y ago

It's surprising and disappointing that Apple didn't catch a bug like this in QA. This affects popular apps, and many people will have at least one of these apps with outdated Electron frameworks.

lapcat 1y ago

It's not surprising. It's sadly predictable that forced annual scheduled OS updates that must ship ready or not will ship when they're not ready. Apple abandoned any commitment to QA as soon as they committed to mid-September becoming a magical date, practically written in stone.

AlexandrB 1y ago
What does Apple even get out of it? I don't think anyone is clamouring for new MacOS releases, so I can't imagine it drives hardware sales. MacOS is no longer a paid product either.
- nottorp 1y ago
  They even have to provide separate updates for people that refuse to jump on the latest and greatest - NOW WITH LOW CONTRAST - version. Too bad their competition is worse. It's not like they're good any more. Btw I just checked and the assholes preselect the update to Tahoe, not the update to 15.7.1.
- toast0 1y ago
  The regular update cadence and the lack of stability for developers sets an expectation that developers must be active (forever) or their product will stop working. That way, they never have to deal with fallout from breaking a 20 year old program like Microsoft got for breaking whatever version of GTA. There's no way a 20 year old program still runs on current macos, so nothing to worry about.
  - badc0ffee 1y ago
    I worked on some Mac security software. WWDC and that first macOS beta in June dictated whether we were going to spend the summer on features, or on compatibility with the new platform. There were a few crazy years, like file protection in Mojave, system extensions in Catalina, and Apple Silicon and other changes in Big Sur. Not to mention yearly device management changes and UI changes like dark mode, completely reworking the menu bar icon, etc. The Windows team never faced anything like this. Not only did Windows change slowly and with backward compatibility, but the users didn't upgrade right away, even if they were buying brand new laptops. But in the Mac world, a laptop bought in September/October is going to have the new macOS on it no matter what.
- lapcat 1y ago
  I'm not sure. Perhaps Tim Cook just likes schedules, which fit naturally in his MBA brain. Or it could be that Apple previously set the expectation of annual releases and now can't stop, because getting off the update train would be a kind of indicator or admission to stockholders and the media that Apple is falling behind somehow. On the other hand, annual OS updates with updated system requirements would provide a convenient way to implement planned obsolescence of hardware. In any case, Tim Cook clearly doesn't have the same standards as Steve Jobs did. Cook will never complain, "This is shit!" As Jobs reportedly lamented, Cook is a not a product person. So QA problems are not necessarily a problem for him. I suspect that Cook actually believes everything is mostly going well, and perhaps some "metrics" tell him so, though the metrics likely ignore the fact that developers have been disillusioned and alienated by Apple's hostile bug reporting system. If I thought Apple cared and would do something, I'd file literally thousands more bug reports.

taminka 1y ago

it's been a while since you used macos? apple has completely stopped giving a shit, extremely basic functionality like spotlight and settings search have been completely broken for years now...

densh 1y ago
I just can't believe how dysfunctional something as basic as search over settings is now.
- JSR_FDED 1y ago
  Specifically?
  - sleepybrett 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - densh 1y ago
    For example let's say I want to go to display settings from search. I enter 'monitor' in search since I forgot how it's called. First results: accessibility, privacy and security, control center, and only 4-th category Displays. It's 8-th line if you count sub-categories. I usually google where a particular setting is now since I don't use the exact same words and the settings search is very literal.
jermaustin1 1y ago
As a daily driver of MacOS, I've not notice anything being wrong with spotlight or settings. Is there something specific that is broken? I use spotlight constantly for everything, but I admit I don't use the search feature in settings all that often.
- barbazoo 1y ago
  It’s not uncommon for me after installing apps that spotlight wont find them for a while.

cnity 1y ago

It was Electron causing a shadow repaint, not Apple: https://github.com/electron/electron/issues/48311#issuecomment-3332181420 https://github.com/electron/electron/issues/48311#issuecomme...

m-schuetz 1y ago
It only became an issue when Apple's update made it an issue. This is on Apple.
- jermaustin1 1y ago
  Why is it on Apple to make sure that their private APIs (as in you SHOULDN'T USE THEM, because they will change without regard to your software) are backward compatible?
  - Ambroos 1y ago
    It's on both. Apple should probably have caught this in beta considering how widespread Electron apps are, and have worked with Electron to fix it or they should've worked around it (which Microsoft would probably have done).
    - samtheprogram 1y ago
      Electron updates already exist, it's the individual apps that need to update their version of Electron.
  - afavour 1y ago
    Because ultimately Apple is making software for its users. Something that negatively affects their users experience is something they should factor in with new releases no matter whose "fault" it is. Such is the pain of making operating systems. You're right in the purest sense: use a private API, get burnt. But when it's something this widely used and depended upon you could argue Apple should have made it into a public API by now.
  - 1y ago