8 ms·

Baseball durations after the pitch clock

71 points by zdw 1y ago

jm4 1y ago
Anyone know why they are still so much longer than pre-80’s? Is it all the pitching changes? That’s maybe 12-15 minutes. More commercials? A game in 2 hours or less would be pretty awesome.
- 0x445442 1y ago
  My guess is higher run totals.
  - carefulfungi 1y ago
    Maybe surprisingly, total plate appearances per game is relatively stable. https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/misc.shtml https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/misc.shtml. Pitching has been dominating hitting the last few years and runs (and batting averages) are both relatively low at the moment. Total pitchers used, however, is up.
- thechao 1y ago
  Assuming approximately 0 commercials in 1920 with a runtime of 110 minutes -> 140 minutes. I'm trying to decide if there's 30 minutes of commercials, or not? I'm thinking about the standard sitcom (TV) commercial density which is a 23-24m show with 6-7m of commercials (25–33%). So... 30m seems in range?
- codingdave 1y ago
  Commercials? I haven't been to a game since the 90s, but I don't recall them pausing for commercials. Do they do that now?
  - mtillman 1y ago
    Not during batting. For pitching changes they do and pitching changes are more frequent now that starters “only” pitch 100 pitches or less. Time between innings seems to have a higher ad load though it’s inconsistent from what I can tell depending perhaps on the market.
  - mkovach 1y ago
    The time between half-innings increases, so the radio and TV could play commercials on the broadcast. Pitching changes are longer, etc. You don't see it much at the game, but if you are one of the folks who used to listen to the game on the radio, at the game itself, you get a feel for how the flow of the game is affected by the broadcasts.
    - toast0 1y ago
      > You don't see it much at the game I haven't paid enough attention at baseball games. At hockey games, if you can see the scorekeeper, they have a lamp at the glass that will come on during a stopage to let the refs know it's time for a commercial (if you watch for this, you can get a jump on the crowd if you need a bathroom break or refreshments). You can usually predict a commercial timeout, they've got guidelines that are pretty consistently applied [1] [1] https://nhlofficials.com/know-the-rules/week-20-need-a-break/ https://nhlofficials.com/know-the-rules/week-20-need-a-break... search for "Commercial’s time-outs should be taken at the first whistle"
      - toast0 1y ago
        I meant to also say that the light doesn't go off until the commercial break is done, so they don't drop the puck before the broadcasters are ready. Typically an off-ice official holds a door open and stands in it to also signal not to start, if it looks like everyone is ready to go a bit early.
- mkovach 1y ago
  A summer afternoon, static on the radio, the low hum of an announcer calling balls and strikes like he’s reading scripture in a Midwest church. Baseball used to be stitched together with silence. You heard the game as much in the pauses as in the plays. Then the voice came in. Once the game hit the airwaves, it slowed. Had to. The ball waited for the broadcast. Out of the dead-ball fog came the home run. No more bunting, no more clever thefts of second. Now it was swing, admire, trot. Alongside the homers came the walks and the strikeouts. Fewer balls in play. More staring, less running. Time thickened, and the nature of the game was trending towards longer games. World War II shaved minutes from the clock. With so many players overseas, the talent pool shrank. The games got shorter because they became simpler. When the talent came back, the games got longer, largely because, after 1947, the game was flooded with previously segregated talent and players who were returning from overseas. In the 60s, pitchers took over. Dominance from the mound. ERAs dropped. Batting averages plummeted. In 1968 they called it the Year of the Pitcher, then called the rulebook to fix it. Scoring came back, and with it, longer games. Television followed with commercial breaks and camera angles. The game had to pause for sponsors. The seventh-inning stretch now came with a soft drink. In the 70s, the bullpen became a revolving door. Specialists. Situational matchups. Every pitching change added minutes. Coaches walked the mound like they were heading to confession. And the game kept expanding. OPS rose. More runners meant more pitches. More strikeouts meant more throws. Every batter became a saga. If you look at the graph, you can see a trend that matches well with changes in baseball. We could probably break down every high and low to describe the shift based on rules, personal changes, etc. Then came the pitch clock. No more dawdling. No more meditative pacing between pitches. And now a reliever has to face at least three batters in an inning. No more one-pitch exits. It’s not that baseball got lazy. It got layered, commercialized, optimized, and strategized, but it forgot about time management. The graph shows an outline, with the trends representing a chapter in baseball history, which is very cool.
  - drivers99 1y ago
    You’re a wonderful writer. It made me curious enough to look at your previous comments. (Your comment about your grandma who baked was also like a wonderful short story but in fewer words.) Do you write books as well, by chance? Or a blog, or anything like that? Sorry to anyone if this seems weird. A simple upvote didn’t seem enough.
- spiesd 1y ago
  I wouldn't say they're "so much longer" now (since the pitch clock was implemented, that is). This year, 9 inning games averaged 2:38. In 1960, they ran 2:33. There are lots of factors that contribute to longer gametime. A couple that correlate with the general trend for longer: - pitchers/game: 2025: 4.29, 1960: 2.45 - strikeouts/game: 2025: 8.36, 1960: 5.18 Commercial breaks are currently limited to 2 minutes by rule, and it takes some time just to run on and off the field, so I am dubious of the impact of that. (Though the rule has changed, and I forget whether there were an additional 20 minutes because of that back in the 1990s/2000s.) That said, unless it were a stellar pitching duel, I'd really despise constant sub-2 hour games. https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/misc.shtml https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/misc.shtml https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/bat.shtml https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/bat.shtml https://www.mlb.com/glossary/rules/warmup-pitches https://www.mlb.com/glossary/rules/warmup-pitches
  - mkovach 1y ago
    Yes, the pitch clock and the relievers' requirement to face at least three batters in an inning have done a very good job of handling game times. At some point, as the game continues to evolve, I think we'll see an upward swing in game times in the future, but I don't believe it will trend as high as it has before. I think that sub-three-hour games will remain the sweet spot going forward. Now, for sub-two-hour games, this is one I wish I could watch and re-watch https://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1908/B10020CLE1908.htm https://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1908/B10020CLE1908.htm In the middle of a pennant race, Addie Joss pitched a 74-pitch perfect game against Ed Walsh, who had already won 39 games that year. The game kept Cleveland in the running for the pennant. Game time? 1:40 minutes. The minimum number of batters for a nine-inning game is 54, this game had 56.
    - jamesmontalvo3 1y ago
      Wouldn’t the minimum be 51? 932 =54, but if the team batting second is winning after the top of the 9th then they don’t need to play the bottom of the ninth, so subtract 3? Not a baseball person.
- hluska 1y ago
  The game has changed dramatically since the 1970s. My favourite example is from 1979. In 1979, Phil Niekro lead the major leagues with 342 innings pitched. In 2025, Logan Webb lead the majors with 207 innings pitched. Modern pitchers throw about 2/3 the pitches that pre-80s pitchers threw. Part of this is player safety - baseball destroyed some amazing arms. And part of it is the fact that relievers today tend to throw 98+.
dgs_sgd 1y ago
Until recently I had only ever been to one baseball game.. saw the Jays when I was 10. I remember falling asleep at the game because it was so slow and boring, and never really watched baseball after that. But in the last couple years I’ve seen the Mets and Phillies multiple times, and it’s now one of my favourite sports to watch thanks to the pitch clock increasing the pace of the game. I’d be really curious to see data on how many new fans the league got after the change.
- jfengel 1y ago
  It's too soon to tell. Here's total attendance data: https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/misc.shtml https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/misc.shtml COVID did such a number on attendance that it's hard to separate anything else out. It has been increasing since it bottomed out but is still below the peak. The best I can say: it was falling before the pandemic and it's now above where it was even before everything shut down. So... maybe?
- toast0 1y ago
  > I remember falling asleep at the game because it was so slow and boring, and never really watched baseball after that. If you listen to people talking about how they loved going to the game with their family, it's usually about what they did to pass the time during the boredom. It was America's pastime, because you needed to figure out how to pass time during the boredom. The pitch clock is nice though, gives a rythym to action. That said, minor league baseball is a lot more fun to watch because there's a lot more variance, and they have a lot of stuff going on between the innings to keep you awake ;)
- relwin 1y ago
  This is why the Savannah Bananas (and the banana league) are so popular. Banana-ball draws sellout crowds wherever they play. The main focus is "don't be boring."
jackconsidine 1y ago
The graph shoes interquartile range, so this wouldn't be a factor, but worth noting: baseball also changed its rules on extra inning games in the past few years which speeds things up. A runner starts on second base which reduces the 0-run extra innings that are responsible for the 19 inning game I remember as a kid. [0] [0] https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-jul-10-sp-alrdp10-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-jul-10-sp-alrdp...
jrockway 1y ago
What is shorter games doing for attendance, concession sales, ad sales on the TV broadcast? Seems like you want people stuck in the park for as long as possible (well, at least until they make them stop selling alcohol) but if that's too long, people simply won't go. Meanwhile, I have no idea whether longer or shorter games are better for TV. I would guess shorter is better? After an hour of the same insurance commercial over and over, you're either going to switch insurance companies or you're not. Seeing the ad 3 more times probably isn't worth very much.
- jghn 1y ago
  Where I am, the people I know are spending a lot less on concessions & alcohol. Not because of the shorter game but because the beer prices have become astronomical and the food quality has become terrible. So instead we pregame nearby, maybe have a beer, and then go out afterwards.
  - gdulli 1y ago
    That's one of the reasons inflation doesn't scare me as much as it does other people. When it gets out of hand I always find easy ways to adjust some unnecessary spending. I'm eating healthier since I decided to spend less money on food by cooking.
    - loloquwowndueo 1y ago
      Groceries are also impacted by inflation - plenty of people scared by not being able to meet even basic alimentary needs due to increasing costs. Google a bit for “poverty meals”.
      - gdulli 1y ago
        Sure, but it was low-hanging fruit for me to cook for $4/meal rather than eat out for $15/meal. Maybe I'd have been able to cook for $3/meal if I'd started a year earlier but I was still capturing a big relative efficiency.
  - 1y ago
glitcher 1y ago
> Games are now roughly as long as they were in the early ’80s, so the powers at MLB have cut about four decades of fat from the game. And they did it without reducing the number of commercials, because they’d never do that. The commercialization of baseball is really ruining the game for me at times. Company billboards and logos are in almost every square inch of empty space inside the stadiums now, making them look like giant versions of race cars with way too many tacky sponsor stickers. And just like race car drivers, these sponsor logos are creeping into the players' uniforms more and more each year, now placed prominently on one of the shoulders. If they made it into the jerseys I guess the hats are next to get ruined. One of the worst examples are the led ad screens behind the batter, which sometimes in the tv broadcast they digitally overlay a different advertiser than what the folks in the stadium see, and it creates this messed up outline around the batter/catcher/ump that makes it look like the entire game is fake. Then there are the tv announcers who are now required to attribute the replay on every exciting play to a different sponsor, like "this homerun replay is brought to you by Hefty! ... blah blah blah". They do it for homeruns, doubles, stolen bases, great catches, pitcher changes, even manager challenges! But probably the most insidious practice is during an active game mid-inning, sometimes after a strikeout before the next batter gets to the plate, the tv broadcast will shrink the game down into one corner of the screen and play a regular, albeit shortened, commercial on most of the screen. No more announcer analysis about who is coming up to bat, or any other talking points relevant to the moment. Instead it's garbage commercial audio all the way up to the moment the pitcher is about to release the next pitch. It's almost like they're trying to ruin the integrity of the sport. But I know the truth is simple corporate greed.
- hdgvhicv 1y ago
  Advertising is a cancer on society. It makes everything worse.
  - jimkleiber 1y ago
    It almost allows people to create their own real estate and rent it out at growing prices as the crowds increase. And when they max out at what one would pay for one piece of that real estate, they just rent off other pieces of real estate (more ads)
oldandboring 1y ago
The pitch clock is undoubtedly the most impactful of the changes made recently to speed up the game. However, other changes were implemented alongside it that have contributed in meaningful ways: - Limit on the number of times per plate appearance a pitcher can "disengage" by stepping off/calling time or making a pickoff move. - Limit on the number of times per plate appearance a batter can "disengage" by stepping out/calling time. - Minimum of 3 batters must be faced by an incoming relief pitcher (or must finish the half-inning) - Limit on the number of mound visits per game - Larger bases - Elimination (mostly) of the defensive "shift" - Team at bat starts with an automatic "ghost" runner on 2nd base in extra innings
- lc9er 1y ago
  I like the 1, 2, and 4 changes. My feelings about 3 and 6 are mixed. Absolutely dislike the last.
  - oldandboring 1y ago
    While I also dislike the ghost runner, I can't deny that it's been a net positive for the game. By mostly eliminating marathon extra-inning slogs, not only does it speed up the game, but it also makes it much harder for teams to run out of pitchers they can safely use, which reduces injuries and ensures that we are not subjected to watching two backup catchers throw 48mph Eephus pitches in the 17th inning, long after they stopped selling beer.
    - tiahura 1y ago
      Nothing cooler than staying up till 1:30 am with a radio under the covers to listen to the end of a 14 inning game. All that baseball they’ve stolen from us just so the degenerate gamblers can get their fix quicker.
    - musictubes 1y ago
      Long extra inning games are pretty rare. I too hate the “Manfred Man” but the players and coaches overwhelmingly approve of it. I think that using the ghost runner at the start of the 12th inning would be a good compromise.
badlibrarian 1y ago
Amusing to see "dos2unix" pop up in the middle of the article. Python and Pandas can handle newlines directly, one pattern is: with open("gametimes.csv", "r", newline="") as f: df = pd.read_csv(f)
- zahlman 1y ago
  The standard library `csv` used to expect files in binary mode in 2.x and it annoyed me to no end.
jimt1234 1y ago
Sorta related: I feel instant replay challenges have sucked the life out of the game. Arguing with the ump over bad calls has never accomplished anything, but it's entertaining, it gets the blood flowing; it always made me feel more connected to the game and other fans. Now, managers just request an instant replay challenge, we wait a few minutes, and that's it - accurate, but boring. For example, I watched around 100 games this season, but I can't recall a single instant replay challenge. However, ask anyone from St. Louis about "game 6" (typically, that's all you need to say!), and they'll get fired up, ranting about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyt1xEvqqow https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyt1xEvqqow . Forty years later, people still remember that blown call like it was yesterday.
- cthalupa 1y ago
  I'm fairly confident you're in the minority of serious fans on this one. Anecdotal, but I don't personally know a single big baseball fan that wants to go back to no instant replay. Which doesn't mean they're necessarily happy with where instant replay is - particularly since New York relies on their own specific camera feeds, and sometimes don't have the same angles available as those watching on TV do. It's resulted in some fairly rage inducing incidents where we can clearly see the call was majorly blown from home, but the replay room can't overturn it from the angles they have. Every official camera feed should be available for them to use, imo.
alexpotato 1y ago
The wildest thing about this chart is that it shows that from the 1920s to the 1940s you could conceivably watch a baseball game: - that took less than 2 hours - was in the afternoon One baseball writer theorized that part of the decline in interest in baseball amongst kids is b/c they moved to night games so kids couldn't watch anymore (bed time etc etc). e.g. many older people speak fondly of getting home from school and listening / watching a baseball game of their home team.
- voidfunc 1y ago
  A few problems: 1. baseball competes in a sea of media and multimedia options and its competition has been growing ever since TV moved into the cable-era. Now it also has to compete with internet, games, social media, etc. Theres only so much time and attention for people to focus on it. 2. Long season. I love baseball but you can go 2-3 weeks not watching a game and have missed nothing. 3. Cost to go to games plus location of stadiums in car-centric areas often means painful commutes to the games for most Americans and then bringing two kids is like making it a $400 affair between parking, food, souvenirs etc. That's expensive for a lot of people. The exit of people from the cities into the burbs in the mid-20th did a lot of damage to the idea of going to a game.
  - iambateman 1y ago
    All true. Meanwhile, we saw the Savannah Bananas tonight. I wonder if their brand of baseball will find appeal more broadly? It’s more spectacle than sport but it’s the most enthusiastic I’ve seen a crowd for anything other than football.
    - voidfunc 1y ago
      Bananaball is interesting but its more similar to the Harlem Globetrotters than anything in the MLB pipeline. Which is fine, its fun, its ridiculous, but its not baseball.
    - whateveracct 1y ago
      I mean, theatre always has its place
gre 1y ago
Cool now take away commercial breaks.
Drblessing 1y ago
Baseball should be 7 innings.
- cthalupa 1y ago
  This would more than halve the amount of relief pitchers needed, so the MLBPA will never ever think about agreeing to it. Starting pitchers averaged ~5.5 innings per game in 2024, and going 7 is hardly a rare occurrence. You would basically just have starters, 2-3 relief pitchers, one "long-man." vs. the average of 8 on the roster today.
iambateman 1y ago
We went to see the Savannah Bananas tonight…they have a very dramatic “start the clock” opening. But when the clock starts, there’s 2:00 until the game is over. It was kinda nice to know that it would end at a specific time. My family went to see the July 4 fireworks at our minor league stadium this summer. I remember thinking “it’s 2-2, what if there’s extra innings? My kids will be devastated.” I hope we as a society can find ways to keep baseball interesting…it’s really a beautiful game.
Fripplebubby 1y ago
One of the interesting experiences I have being a member both of this community and the baseball analytics community is seeing posts like this, where apparently the author thinks that they're the only one who had the idea to look at this, shared widely within the hacker community because it comes from one of their own. Rest assured, within the _baseball_ community, this has been discussed and analyzed to death - it just doesn't get posted here because nobody mentions using unix tools to do it, because it isn't really relevant. See for example: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/how-have-the-new-rules-changed-the-game/ https://blogs.fangraphs.com/how-have-the-new-rules-changed-t... https://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/rules-changes-stats.shtml https://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/rules-changes-stats.... And many others, these are two early and relatively canonical ones. If folks reading this post are interested enough in baseball, please, come join us in the baseball analytics community where this is merely the very tippy top of the iceberg of interesting things.

71 points by zdw 1y ago

jm4 1y ago

Anyone know why they are still so much longer than pre-80’s? Is it all the pitching changes? That’s maybe 12-15 minutes. More commercials? A game in 2 hours or less would be pretty awesome.

0x445442 1y ago
My guess is higher run totals.
- carefulfungi 1y ago
  Maybe surprisingly, total plate appearances per game is relatively stable. https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/misc.shtml https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/misc.shtml. Pitching has been dominating hitting the last few years and runs (and batting averages) are both relatively low at the moment. Total pitchers used, however, is up.
thechao 1y ago
Assuming approximately 0 commercials in 1920 with a runtime of 110 minutes -> 140 minutes. I'm trying to decide if there's 30 minutes of commercials, or not? I'm thinking about the standard sitcom (TV) commercial density which is a 23-24m show with 6-7m of commercials (25–33%). So... 30m seems in range?
codingdave 1y ago
Commercials? I haven't been to a game since the 90s, but I don't recall them pausing for commercials. Do they do that now?
- mtillman 1y ago
  Not during batting. For pitching changes they do and pitching changes are more frequent now that starters “only” pitch 100 pitches or less. Time between innings seems to have a higher ad load though it’s inconsistent from what I can tell depending perhaps on the market.
- mkovach 1y ago
  The time between half-innings increases, so the radio and TV could play commercials on the broadcast. Pitching changes are longer, etc. You don't see it much at the game, but if you are one of the folks who used to listen to the game on the radio, at the game itself, you get a feel for how the flow of the game is affected by the broadcasts.
  - toast0 1y ago
    > You don't see it much at the game I haven't paid enough attention at baseball games. At hockey games, if you can see the scorekeeper, they have a lamp at the glass that will come on during a stopage to let the refs know it's time for a commercial (if you watch for this, you can get a jump on the crowd if you need a bathroom break or refreshments). You can usually predict a commercial timeout, they've got guidelines that are pretty consistently applied [1] [1] https://nhlofficials.com/know-the-rules/week-20-need-a-break/ https://nhlofficials.com/know-the-rules/week-20-need-a-break... search for "Commercial’s time-outs should be taken at the first whistle"
    - toast0 1y ago
      I meant to also say that the light doesn't go off until the commercial break is done, so they don't drop the puck before the broadcasters are ready. Typically an off-ice official holds a door open and stands in it to also signal not to start, if it looks like everyone is ready to go a bit early.
mkovach 1y ago
A summer afternoon, static on the radio, the low hum of an announcer calling balls and strikes like he’s reading scripture in a Midwest church. Baseball used to be stitched together with silence. You heard the game as much in the pauses as in the plays. Then the voice came in. Once the game hit the airwaves, it slowed. Had to. The ball waited for the broadcast. Out of the dead-ball fog came the home run. No more bunting, no more clever thefts of second. Now it was swing, admire, trot. Alongside the homers came the walks and the strikeouts. Fewer balls in play. More staring, less running. Time thickened, and the nature of the game was trending towards longer games. World War II shaved minutes from the clock. With so many players overseas, the talent pool shrank. The games got shorter because they became simpler. When the talent came back, the games got longer, largely because, after 1947, the game was flooded with previously segregated talent and players who were returning from overseas. In the 60s, pitchers took over. Dominance from the mound. ERAs dropped. Batting averages plummeted. In 1968 they called it the Year of the Pitcher, then called the rulebook to fix it. Scoring came back, and with it, longer games. Television followed with commercial breaks and camera angles. The game had to pause for sponsors. The seventh-inning stretch now came with a soft drink. In the 70s, the bullpen became a revolving door. Specialists. Situational matchups. Every pitching change added minutes. Coaches walked the mound like they were heading to confession. And the game kept expanding. OPS rose. More runners meant more pitches. More strikeouts meant more throws. Every batter became a saga. If you look at the graph, you can see a trend that matches well with changes in baseball. We could probably break down every high and low to describe the shift based on rules, personal changes, etc. Then came the pitch clock. No more dawdling. No more meditative pacing between pitches. And now a reliever has to face at least three batters in an inning. No more one-pitch exits. It’s not that baseball got lazy. It got layered, commercialized, optimized, and strategized, but it forgot about time management. The graph shows an outline, with the trends representing a chapter in baseball history, which is very cool.
- drivers99 1y ago
  You’re a wonderful writer. It made me curious enough to look at your previous comments. (Your comment about your grandma who baked was also like a wonderful short story but in fewer words.) Do you write books as well, by chance? Or a blog, or anything like that? Sorry to anyone if this seems weird. A simple upvote didn’t seem enough.
spiesd 1y ago
I wouldn't say they're "so much longer" now (since the pitch clock was implemented, that is). This year, 9 inning games averaged 2:38. In 1960, they ran 2:33. There are lots of factors that contribute to longer gametime. A couple that correlate with the general trend for longer: - pitchers/game: 2025: 4.29, 1960: 2.45 - strikeouts/game: 2025: 8.36, 1960: 5.18 Commercial breaks are currently limited to 2 minutes by rule, and it takes some time just to run on and off the field, so I am dubious of the impact of that. (Though the rule has changed, and I forget whether there were an additional 20 minutes because of that back in the 1990s/2000s.) That said, unless it were a stellar pitching duel, I'd really despise constant sub-2 hour games. https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/misc.shtml https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/misc.shtml https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/bat.shtml https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/bat.shtml https://www.mlb.com/glossary/rules/warmup-pitches https://www.mlb.com/glossary/rules/warmup-pitches
- mkovach 1y ago
  Yes, the pitch clock and the relievers' requirement to face at least three batters in an inning have done a very good job of handling game times. At some point, as the game continues to evolve, I think we'll see an upward swing in game times in the future, but I don't believe it will trend as high as it has before. I think that sub-three-hour games will remain the sweet spot going forward. Now, for sub-two-hour games, this is one I wish I could watch and re-watch https://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1908/B10020CLE1908.htm https://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1908/B10020CLE1908.htm In the middle of a pennant race, Addie Joss pitched a 74-pitch perfect game against Ed Walsh, who had already won 39 games that year. The game kept Cleveland in the running for the pennant. Game time? 1:40 minutes. The minimum number of batters for a nine-inning game is 54, this game had 56.
  - jamesmontalvo3 1y ago
    Wouldn’t the minimum be 51? 932 =54, but if the team batting second is winning after the top of the 9th then they don’t need to play the bottom of the ninth, so subtract 3? Not a baseball person.
hluska 1y ago
The game has changed dramatically since the 1970s. My favourite example is from 1979. In 1979, Phil Niekro lead the major leagues with 342 innings pitched. In 2025, Logan Webb lead the majors with 207 innings pitched. Modern pitchers throw about 2/3 the pitches that pre-80s pitchers threw. Part of this is player safety - baseball destroyed some amazing arms. And part of it is the fact that relievers today tend to throw 98+.

dgs_sgd 1y ago

Until recently I had only ever been to one baseball game.. saw the Jays when I was 10. I remember falling asleep at the game because it was so slow and boring, and never really watched baseball after that. But in the last couple years I’ve seen the Mets and Phillies multiple times, and it’s now one of my favourite sports to watch thanks to the pitch clock increasing the pace of the game. I’d be really curious to see data on how many new fans the league got after the change.

jfengel 1y ago
It's too soon to tell. Here's total attendance data: https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/misc.shtml https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/misc.shtml COVID did such a number on attendance that it's hard to separate anything else out. It has been increasing since it bottomed out but is still below the peak. The best I can say: it was falling before the pandemic and it's now above where it was even before everything shut down. So... maybe?
toast0 1y ago
> I remember falling asleep at the game because it was so slow and boring, and never really watched baseball after that. If you listen to people talking about how they loved going to the game with their family, it's usually about what they did to pass the time during the boredom. It was America's pastime, because you needed to figure out how to pass time during the boredom. The pitch clock is nice though, gives a rythym to action. That said, minor league baseball is a lot more fun to watch because there's a lot more variance, and they have a lot of stuff going on between the innings to keep you awake ;)
relwin 1y ago
This is why the Savannah Bananas (and the banana league) are so popular. Banana-ball draws sellout crowds wherever they play. The main focus is "don't be boring."

jackconsidine 1y ago

The graph shoes interquartile range, so this wouldn't be a factor, but worth noting: baseball also changed its rules on extra inning games in the past few years which speeds things up. A runner starts on second base which reduces the 0-run extra innings that are responsible for the 19 inning game I remember as a kid. [0] [0] https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-jul-10-sp-alrdp10-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-jul-10-sp-alrdp...

jrockway 1y ago

What is shorter games doing for attendance, concession sales, ad sales on the TV broadcast? Seems like you want people stuck in the park for as long as possible (well, at least until they make them stop selling alcohol) but if that's too long, people simply won't go. Meanwhile, I have no idea whether longer or shorter games are better for TV. I would guess shorter is better? After an hour of the same insurance commercial over and over, you're either going to switch insurance companies or you're not. Seeing the ad 3 more times probably isn't worth very much.

jghn 1y ago
Where I am, the people I know are spending a lot less on concessions & alcohol. Not because of the shorter game but because the beer prices have become astronomical and the food quality has become terrible. So instead we pregame nearby, maybe have a beer, and then go out afterwards.
- gdulli 1y ago
  That's one of the reasons inflation doesn't scare me as much as it does other people. When it gets out of hand I always find easy ways to adjust some unnecessary spending. I'm eating healthier since I decided to spend less money on food by cooking.
  - loloquwowndueo 1y ago
    Groceries are also impacted by inflation - plenty of people scared by not being able to meet even basic alimentary needs due to increasing costs. Google a bit for “poverty meals”.
    - gdulli 1y ago
      Sure, but it was low-hanging fruit for me to cook for $4/meal rather than eat out for $15/meal. Maybe I'd have been able to cook for $3/meal if I'd started a year earlier but I was still capturing a big relative efficiency.
- 1y ago

glitcher 1y ago

> Games are now roughly as long as they were in the early ’80s, so the powers at MLB have cut about four decades of fat from the game. And they did it without reducing the number of commercials, because they’d never do that. The commercialization of baseball is really ruining the game for me at times. Company billboards and logos are in almost every square inch of empty space inside the stadiums now, making them look like giant versions of race cars with way too many tacky sponsor stickers. And just like race car drivers, these sponsor logos are creeping into the players' uniforms more and more each year, now placed prominently on one of the shoulders. If they made it into the jerseys I guess the hats are next to get ruined. One of the worst examples are the led ad screens behind the batter, which sometimes in the tv broadcast they digitally overlay a different advertiser than what the folks in the stadium see, and it creates this messed up outline around the batter/catcher/ump that makes it look like the entire game is fake. Then there are the tv announcers who are now required to attribute the replay on every exciting play to a different sponsor, like "this homerun replay is brought to you by Hefty! ... blah blah blah". They do it for homeruns, doubles, stolen bases, great catches, pitcher changes, even manager challenges! But probably the most insidious practice is during an active game mid-inning, sometimes after a strikeout before the next batter gets to the plate, the tv broadcast will shrink the game down into one corner of the screen and play a regular, albeit shortened, commercial on most of the screen. No more announcer analysis about who is coming up to bat, or any other talking points relevant to the moment. Instead it's garbage commercial audio all the way up to the moment the pitcher is about to release the next pitch. It's almost like they're trying to ruin the integrity of the sport. But I know the truth is simple corporate greed.

hdgvhicv 1y ago
Advertising is a cancer on society. It makes everything worse.
- jimkleiber 1y ago
  It almost allows people to create their own real estate and rent it out at growing prices as the crowds increase. And when they max out at what one would pay for one piece of that real estate, they just rent off other pieces of real estate (more ads)

oldandboring 1y ago

The pitch clock is undoubtedly the most impactful of the changes made recently to speed up the game. However, other changes were implemented alongside it that have contributed in meaningful ways: - Limit on the number of times per plate appearance a pitcher can "disengage" by stepping off/calling time or making a pickoff move. - Limit on the number of times per plate appearance a batter can "disengage" by stepping out/calling time. - Minimum of 3 batters must be faced by an incoming relief pitcher (or must finish the half-inning) - Limit on the number of mound visits per game - Larger bases - Elimination (mostly) of the defensive "shift" - Team at bat starts with an automatic "ghost" runner on 2nd base in extra innings

lc9er 1y ago
I like the 1, 2, and 4 changes. My feelings about 3 and 6 are mixed. Absolutely dislike the last.
- oldandboring 1y ago
  While I also dislike the ghost runner, I can't deny that it's been a net positive for the game. By mostly eliminating marathon extra-inning slogs, not only does it speed up the game, but it also makes it much harder for teams to run out of pitchers they can safely use, which reduces injuries and ensures that we are not subjected to watching two backup catchers throw 48mph Eephus pitches in the 17th inning, long after they stopped selling beer.
  - tiahura 1y ago
    Nothing cooler than staying up till 1:30 am with a radio under the covers to listen to the end of a 14 inning game. All that baseball they’ve stolen from us just so the degenerate gamblers can get their fix quicker.
  - musictubes 1y ago
    Long extra inning games are pretty rare. I too hate the “Manfred Man” but the players and coaches overwhelmingly approve of it. I think that using the ghost runner at the start of the 12th inning would be a good compromise.

badlibrarian 1y ago

Amusing to see "dos2unix" pop up in the middle of the article. Python and Pandas can handle newlines directly, one pattern is: with open("gametimes.csv", "r", newline="") as f: df = pd.read_csv(f)

zahlman 1y ago
The standard library `csv` used to expect files in binary mode in 2.x and it annoyed me to no end.

jimt1234 1y ago

Sorta related: I feel instant replay challenges have sucked the life out of the game. Arguing with the ump over bad calls has never accomplished anything, but it's entertaining, it gets the blood flowing; it always made me feel more connected to the game and other fans. Now, managers just request an instant replay challenge, we wait a few minutes, and that's it - accurate, but boring. For example, I watched around 100 games this season, but I can't recall a single instant replay challenge. However, ask anyone from St. Louis about "game 6" (typically, that's all you need to say!), and they'll get fired up, ranting about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyt1xEvqqow https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyt1xEvqqow . Forty years later, people still remember that blown call like it was yesterday.

cthalupa 1y ago
I'm fairly confident you're in the minority of serious fans on this one. Anecdotal, but I don't personally know a single big baseball fan that wants to go back to no instant replay. Which doesn't mean they're necessarily happy with where instant replay is - particularly since New York relies on their own specific camera feeds, and sometimes don't have the same angles available as those watching on TV do. It's resulted in some fairly rage inducing incidents where we can clearly see the call was majorly blown from home, but the replay room can't overturn it from the angles they have. Every official camera feed should be available for them to use, imo.

alexpotato 1y ago

The wildest thing about this chart is that it shows that from the 1920s to the 1940s you could conceivably watch a baseball game: - that took less than 2 hours - was in the afternoon One baseball writer theorized that part of the decline in interest in baseball amongst kids is b/c they moved to night games so kids couldn't watch anymore (bed time etc etc). e.g. many older people speak fondly of getting home from school and listening / watching a baseball game of their home team.

voidfunc 1y ago
A few problems: 1. baseball competes in a sea of media and multimedia options and its competition has been growing ever since TV moved into the cable-era. Now it also has to compete with internet, games, social media, etc. Theres only so much time and attention for people to focus on it. 2. Long season. I love baseball but you can go 2-3 weeks not watching a game and have missed nothing. 3. Cost to go to games plus location of stadiums in car-centric areas often means painful commutes to the games for most Americans and then bringing two kids is like making it a $400 affair between parking, food, souvenirs etc. That's expensive for a lot of people. The exit of people from the cities into the burbs in the mid-20th did a lot of damage to the idea of going to a game.
- iambateman 1y ago
  All true. Meanwhile, we saw the Savannah Bananas tonight. I wonder if their brand of baseball will find appeal more broadly? It’s more spectacle than sport but it’s the most enthusiastic I’ve seen a crowd for anything other than football.
  - voidfunc 1y ago
    Bananaball is interesting but its more similar to the Harlem Globetrotters than anything in the MLB pipeline. Which is fine, its fun, its ridiculous, but its not baseball.
  - whateveracct 1y ago
    I mean, theatre always has its place

gre 1y ago

Cool now take away commercial breaks.

Drblessing 1y ago

Baseball should be 7 innings.

cthalupa 1y ago
This would more than halve the amount of relief pitchers needed, so the MLBPA will never ever think about agreeing to it. Starting pitchers averaged ~5.5 innings per game in 2024, and going 7 is hardly a rare occurrence. You would basically just have starters, 2-3 relief pitchers, one "long-man." vs. the average of 8 on the roster today.

iambateman 1y ago

We went to see the Savannah Bananas tonight…they have a very dramatic “start the clock” opening. But when the clock starts, there’s 2:00 until the game is over. It was kinda nice to know that it would end at a specific time. My family went to see the July 4 fireworks at our minor league stadium this summer. I remember thinking “it’s 2-2, what if there’s extra innings? My kids will be devastated.” I hope we as a society can find ways to keep baseball interesting…it’s really a beautiful game.

Fripplebubby 1y ago

One of the interesting experiences I have being a member both of this community and the baseball analytics community is seeing posts like this, where apparently the author thinks that they're the only one who had the idea to look at this, shared widely within the hacker community because it comes from one of their own. Rest assured, within the _baseball_ community, this has been discussed and analyzed to death - it just doesn't get posted here because nobody mentions using unix tools to do it, because it isn't really relevant. See for example: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/how-have-the-new-rules-changed-the-game/ https://blogs.fangraphs.com/how-have-the-new-rules-changed-t... https://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/rules-changes-stats.shtml https://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/rules-changes-stats.... And many others, these are two early and relatively canonical ones. If folks reading this post are interested enough in baseball, please, come join us in the baseball analytics community where this is merely the very tippy top of the iceberg of interesting things.