3 ms·

Honestly the real question is why anyone is staying.

mystraline 1y ago
Many of us dont have a choice. I dont have any familial ties of immigration. I dont know foreign languages to be competent. I look at Europe as a whole also facing extremist conservative and fascist-adjacent rhetoric. I dont see those countries much better off. I know little of South America. I know Africa has a lot of inroads with China with Belt and Road. Simply put: I'm trapped in the USA. My friends are trapped in the USA. My indirect family is either trapped in the USA, or they're pro-maga and approve this hellscape the country is being into. Ive looked at making a commune with like-minded folks and becoming self sufficient, and walking away from this society. Cause there's not many choices, and fewer every day.
- protocolture 1y ago
  How long until we start getting asylum seekers from the US. Because you are talking about above board, welcomed methods of migration. If I was in the US, the first thing I would do is no longer be in the US by whatever means possible.
  - mystraline 1y ago
    But go where? And if I enter irregularly (illegally cross), and request asylum, what then? I likely won't know the language. I can't legally work. I'm now an "illegal alien", and people everywhere hate them (USA isn't special in that hate). I could try English speaking countries? Canada is not encouraging, given the 51st state threats. England, again, not at all welcoming. Iceland is suffering badly with a whole bunch of things. I dont know about Australia or New Zealand. The USA is also very big. Lot of places to hide.
    - protocolture 1y ago
      Honestly the hatred of Asylum seekers is pretty squarely on asylum seekers of certain races. We had a political party that worked hard to stop arrivals from Asia while trying to find a way to bring christians here from the Middle East under the same terms. Its cynical, but I reckon you would be fine.
- anelson 1y ago
  If you really believe that you’d be better off somewhere else, and you’re a US citizen in decent financial shape, you are absolutely not trapped in the USA. I’ve in Europe for 7 years now, not to escape any particular political ideology back home but suffice it to say that I was motivated. If you’re motivated and willing to endure some discomfort there are multiple options for European immigration available to you. Making any statement about “Europe” is painting with a broad brush, that said I am not particularly bullish on Europe now, for various reasons. But I can’t think of any European country that has the same problems as the US; they all have their own problems, as well as just different ways of doing things. I’ve never lived in an agrarian commune but I can say with certainty that it would be my absolute last choice.
dehrmann 1y ago
I doubt this is the answer, but I was talking to a European about this, and he said it's not like Europe is much better. If you look at the largest Europeam economies—Germany, the UK, and France—all are facing their own issues not unlike the US, right now.
- casparvitch 1y ago
  > 'their own issues not unlike the US' I find this kind of opinion hard to understand. The difference is incredibly high contrast to me.
  - sadeshmukh 1y ago
    I'm guessing they meant each country similarly encounters their own issues, not that countries encounter similar issues.
  - mdhb 1y ago
    It requires a staggering amount of ignorance to be anything other than an incredibly high contrast difference. You aren’t crazy.
    - vizzier 1y ago
      I think you're on the surface correct. But below the surface it can't be denied that in most of the western nations there is an increasing far right party on the knife edge of gaining power in each (Afd, RN, Reform UK, etc). We can hope that they remain out of power, but its hard to say that we won't see a bunch of Trumpist policy repeated in any one of those nations if they do take power.
      - protocolture 1y ago
        The problem as I see it, is that the US was a frog in a boiling pot for ages before this. All trump did was drain the water. The UK is comparable. In that its largely been white anted by Brexit. But you still would have quite a job introducing poms to daily gun violence statistics. Are there any other modern western nations where you get locked up for sharing memes about the government at a border crossing? UK again I guess, did destroy its trade relationships with the whole planet and sent itself back to the blitz without a german bomber in sight. But most of the rest of the world seem stable in comparison.

Many of us dont have a choice. I dont have any familial ties of immigration. I dont know foreign languages to be competent. I look at Europe as a whole also facing extremist conservative and fascist-adjacent rhetoric. I dont see those countries much better off. I know little of South America. I know Africa has a lot of inroads with China with Belt and Road. Simply put: I'm trapped in the USA. My friends are trapped in the USA. My indirect family is either trapped in the USA, or they're pro-maga and approve this hellscape the country is being into. Ive looked at making a commune with like-minded folks and becoming self sufficient, and walking away from this society. Cause there's not many choices, and fewer every day.

protocolture 1y ago
How long until we start getting asylum seekers from the US. Because you are talking about above board, welcomed methods of migration. If I was in the US, the first thing I would do is no longer be in the US by whatever means possible.
- mystraline 1y ago
  But go where? And if I enter irregularly (illegally cross), and request asylum, what then? I likely won't know the language. I can't legally work. I'm now an "illegal alien", and people everywhere hate them (USA isn't special in that hate). I could try English speaking countries? Canada is not encouraging, given the 51st state threats. England, again, not at all welcoming. Iceland is suffering badly with a whole bunch of things. I dont know about Australia or New Zealand. The USA is also very big. Lot of places to hide.
  - protocolture 1y ago
    Honestly the hatred of Asylum seekers is pretty squarely on asylum seekers of certain races. We had a political party that worked hard to stop arrivals from Asia while trying to find a way to bring christians here from the Middle East under the same terms. Its cynical, but I reckon you would be fine.
anelson 1y ago
If you really believe that you’d be better off somewhere else, and you’re a US citizen in decent financial shape, you are absolutely not trapped in the USA. I’ve in Europe for 7 years now, not to escape any particular political ideology back home but suffice it to say that I was motivated. If you’re motivated and willing to endure some discomfort there are multiple options for European immigration available to you. Making any statement about “Europe” is painting with a broad brush, that said I am not particularly bullish on Europe now, for various reasons. But I can’t think of any European country that has the same problems as the US; they all have their own problems, as well as just different ways of doing things. I’ve never lived in an agrarian commune but I can say with certainty that it would be my absolute last choice.

dehrmann 1y ago

I doubt this is the answer, but I was talking to a European about this, and he said it's not like Europe is much better. If you look at the largest Europeam economies—Germany, the UK, and France—all are facing their own issues not unlike the US, right now.

casparvitch 1y ago
> 'their own issues not unlike the US' I find this kind of opinion hard to understand. The difference is incredibly high contrast to me.
- sadeshmukh 1y ago
  I'm guessing they meant each country similarly encounters their own issues, not that countries encounter similar issues.
- mdhb 1y ago
  It requires a staggering amount of ignorance to be anything other than an incredibly high contrast difference. You aren’t crazy.
  - vizzier 1y ago
    I think you're on the surface correct. But below the surface it can't be denied that in most of the western nations there is an increasing far right party on the knife edge of gaining power in each (Afd, RN, Reform UK, etc). We can hope that they remain out of power, but its hard to say that we won't see a bunch of Trumpist policy repeated in any one of those nations if they do take power.
    - protocolture 1y ago
      The problem as I see it, is that the US was a frog in a boiling pot for ages before this. All trump did was drain the water. The UK is comparable. In that its largely been white anted by Brexit. But you still would have quite a job introducing poms to daily gun violence statistics. Are there any other modern western nations where you get locked up for sharing memes about the government at a border crossing? UK again I guess, did destroy its trade relationships with the whole planet and sent itself back to the blitz without a german bomber in sight. But most of the rest of the world seem stable in comparison.