5 ms·

Why is Linux still trash in 2025?

This is failure of an operating system. I am using Ubuntu and the mouse stutters, the MOUSE stutters in 2025. It has been in development for 30+ years and still core issues like mouse support isn't there. Or the software updater failing randomly. Or drivers causing to system to blank out. If it had been an MVP would've been better than this pile of garbage. Hours and hours wasted fixing issues which just don't exist elsewhere.

mnky9800n 1y ago
Perhaps you should pick a different desktop environment
- coolThingsFirst 1y ago
  Which desktop environment do you use? I guess it's too much to expect a fresh install of Ubuntu which has been out for forever to have actual smooth mouse usage.
  - joezydeco 1y ago
    I'm a Kubuntu fan. Never seen a mouse problem, even when run virtually, but that's just me.
  - coldtea 1y ago
    Unlike with Windows, and to a similar degree macOS, where vendors create all the drivers themselves, Linux driver support isn't there for everything. Your mouse would work fine if you got a compatible mice for which good drivers exist. Same for other parts of your setup. But this requires research.
    - coolThingsFirst 1y ago
      This is a known issue with wayland: https://gist.github.com/generic-internet-user/e8eec46ce159571032115f6fb064523c https://gist.github.com/generic-internet-user/e8eec46ce15957.... The incompetence is showing, just write code and ship it without a single care about the most basic bug there is. Let the users figure it out.
      - hollerith 1y ago
        The page you link to starts, >I no longer consider any of this to be valid, and consider this entire adventure so far to have been intellectually dishonest and filled with questionable assumptions about everything, so, please, if you're reading this and got linked here, stop reading this and tell whoever linked you here to shut the f*k up already.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - coldtea 1y ago
        You missed the top addendum on the very page you linked to, by its very author: "I no longer consider any of this to be valid, and consider this entire adventure so far to have been intellectually dishonest and filled with questionable assumptions about everything, so, please, if you're reading this and got linked here, stop reading this and tell whoever linked you here to shut the f*k up already."
    - bigyabai 1y ago
      In XKCD vernacular, today you are one of the lucky 10,000: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_human_interface_device_class https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_human_interface_device_cla...
  - mnky9800n 1y ago
    I have a Mac
coldtea 1y ago
Because it reached it's peak - when community interest was big, FOSS participation interest was big, even corporate interest was big, and desktop OS interest was also big - and didn't manage to fully catch up to the areas it was lacking. It's still better in other areas, and of course, freedom and lack of surveillance, but regarding catching up to Windows and macOS in UI maturity and convenience, it's too late. (And programmer/admin types, or people who "set it for their 70 year old parents and they use it just fine" are not a counter-argument). Fortunately, macOS and Windows are going downhill UI wise too, so maybe they'll meet Linux further down, and Linux might even surpass them.
- coolThingsFirst 1y ago
  There is DHH Omarchy/Omakub attempt to create a Linux system of convention over configuration, this is making me give it one last shot. But damn some aspects are really annoying. One other issue is one package installation at a time with a lock which you can't do from other terminal. Here's what GPT says: > The APT package manager uses a lock file (usually /var/lib/dpkg/lock or /var/lib/apt/lists/lock) to ensure that only one process (like apt-get, apt, or the GUI Software Center) is modifying packages at a time. To me this seems like a serious limitation
  - PaulHoule 1y ago
    I keep away from GUI package managers as much as I can. I can tell somebody to $ sudo apt-get install X and they can cut and paste and it's done. To do the same with a GUI package manager I'd have to spell out 10 or so steps. I've had enough times where the spinner started spinning and never stopped spinning and the lock file never got unlocked or the package database got corrupted that I won't even try using one.
    - coolThingsFirst 1y ago
      I was talking about apt-get, try to do multiple installation from different terminal instances. Pretty sure it runs into a lock.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
coolThingsFirst 1y ago
Update: I switched from Wayland to X11 and the stutter has disappeared.
PaulHoule 1y ago
I don't think Windows 11 is as responsive as I wish it was. I don't have any complaints about my M4 Mini yet but if I used it to do tasks I didn't want to do that was late (psychology matters on how annoying unresponsiveness is) or had as much installed on it as I have on the Windows (e.g. things like Adobe Creative Cloud or the backup manager on my machine at work make full startup take 10+ minutes) or installed iOS 26 I might feel differently about it. I thought mobile OS were a big advance in responsiveness circa 2012: today my feelings are mixed. Low end Android phones are so bad it's easy to say "why do people get so excited about apps when it takes five minutes to load one?", my iPhone is clearly fine tuned to deliver notifications instantly, but my iPad sometimes has that out-to-lunch daydreamy feeling that Windows gives.
while_true_ 1y ago
Interesting, I have the opposite opinion. I'm considering switching from Windows to the KDE Plasma desktop and so far I'm impressed with it. Plasma is the first Linux desktop I've used that feels polished and professional. It is more customizable than Windows is. I'm looking to avoid Win 11 with its telemetry, background downloads, advertisements, OneDrive problems, etc.
linguae 1y ago
“Trash” is too harsh of a word, but I do feel that desktop Linux lacks the fit-and-finish of Windows and macOS. It boils down to development resources. The Mac ecosystem has a much smaller number of hardware configurations that macOS needs to be concerned about. Apple has the resources to test these configurations. Even in the PC ecosystem with its plethora of hardware configurations, Microsoft is also a well-resourced company and is thus capable of testing a wide range of configurations. The Linux ecosystem, on the other hand, is much more loosely coordinated among many different parties that may or may not be acting in accord with each other. There are no Apple- or Microsoft-level entities investing hundreds of millions of dollars into desktop Linux development. In fact, given the circumstances, it’s quite impressive we have desktop Linux at all. Even with its Sisyphean setbacks, it’s come quite a long way compared to 20 years ago when I first started using Linux.
roscas 1y ago
I understand you. I'm forced to be used by Windows at work. There are so many problems I already forgot most of it. But still, every bluetooth connections hangs the mouse for 2 seconds, explorer worst program ever written ever in any operating system. Windows boots with 7GB of ram being used of the 8 the machine has. Every day I collect some goodies for a book or page to show how bad it is. It is worst than the worst Linux you can find. And it should not be because the amount of money goes into it, it's absurd. Then people go into Mac because while being bad for privacy and a lock environment, it is still best than Windows. But Linux is not like any of those. Some companies that take care of a specific distro, make a good job, including Ubuntu, that I really don't like. But you do have a stable RockyLinux or Manjaro, both with a few supported desktop environments that work. I also don't like Kubuntu or anything from Ubuntu. Gnome works but I don't like it. So all that is left if Plasma and XFCE. You do have many others that are nice, but it is better to test them out first, on real hardware. There are a few things that only work on Windows, mostly software that checks if it is not Windows. But you do have all on Linux. Desktop environments and windows managers, server software and games, email, graphics, you name it! You also have Windows software that runs better on Linux. Updates? Lol! Windows updates? Yeah sure. And people say ArchLinux is too rolling! LOL! Do you know how many updates Teams gets in the morning? Yes, wait for the afternoon. Ok so what is my choice? ArchLinux with XFCE. I do like Manjaro on all flavours. Love RockyLinux also.
grigio 1y ago
Probably Gnome software center is trash, try Debian with `apt instal X` 20y never disappointed
Citizen8396 1y ago
Are you using a Bluetooth mouse? I've noticed some Apple devices (AirPods) can cause interference with mouses (some Logitech models).

mnky9800n 1y ago

Perhaps you should pick a different desktop environment

coolThingsFirst 1y ago
Which desktop environment do you use? I guess it's too much to expect a fresh install of Ubuntu which has been out for forever to have actual smooth mouse usage.
- joezydeco 1y ago
  I'm a Kubuntu fan. Never seen a mouse problem, even when run virtually, but that's just me.
- coldtea 1y ago
  Unlike with Windows, and to a similar degree macOS, where vendors create all the drivers themselves, Linux driver support isn't there for everything. Your mouse would work fine if you got a compatible mice for which good drivers exist. Same for other parts of your setup. But this requires research.
  - coolThingsFirst 1y ago
    This is a known issue with wayland: https://gist.github.com/generic-internet-user/e8eec46ce159571032115f6fb064523c https://gist.github.com/generic-internet-user/e8eec46ce15957.... The incompetence is showing, just write code and ship it without a single care about the most basic bug there is. Let the users figure it out.
    - hollerith 1y ago
      The page you link to starts, >I no longer consider any of this to be valid, and consider this entire adventure so far to have been intellectually dishonest and filled with questionable assumptions about everything, so, please, if you're reading this and got linked here, stop reading this and tell whoever linked you here to shut the f*k up already.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
    - coldtea 1y ago
      You missed the top addendum on the very page you linked to, by its very author: "I no longer consider any of this to be valid, and consider this entire adventure so far to have been intellectually dishonest and filled with questionable assumptions about everything, so, please, if you're reading this and got linked here, stop reading this and tell whoever linked you here to shut the f*k up already."
  - bigyabai 1y ago
    In XKCD vernacular, today you are one of the lucky 10,000: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_human_interface_device_class https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_human_interface_device_cla...
- mnky9800n 1y ago
  I have a Mac

coldtea 1y ago

Because it reached it's peak - when community interest was big, FOSS participation interest was big, even corporate interest was big, and desktop OS interest was also big - and didn't manage to fully catch up to the areas it was lacking. It's still better in other areas, and of course, freedom and lack of surveillance, but regarding catching up to Windows and macOS in UI maturity and convenience, it's too late. (And programmer/admin types, or people who "set it for their 70 year old parents and they use it just fine" are not a counter-argument). Fortunately, macOS and Windows are going downhill UI wise too, so maybe they'll meet Linux further down, and Linux might even surpass them.

coolThingsFirst 1y ago
There is DHH Omarchy/Omakub attempt to create a Linux system of convention over configuration, this is making me give it one last shot. But damn some aspects are really annoying. One other issue is one package installation at a time with a lock which you can't do from other terminal. Here's what GPT says: > The APT package manager uses a lock file (usually /var/lib/dpkg/lock or /var/lib/apt/lists/lock) to ensure that only one process (like apt-get, apt, or the GUI Software Center) is modifying packages at a time. To me this seems like a serious limitation
- PaulHoule 1y ago
  I keep away from GUI package managers as much as I can. I can tell somebody to $ sudo apt-get install X and they can cut and paste and it's done. To do the same with a GUI package manager I'd have to spell out 10 or so steps. I've had enough times where the spinner started spinning and never stopped spinning and the lock file never got unlocked or the package database got corrupted that I won't even try using one.
  - coolThingsFirst 1y ago
    I was talking about apt-get, try to do multiple installation from different terminal instances. Pretty sure it runs into a lock.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

coolThingsFirst 1y ago

Update: I switched from Wayland to X11 and the stutter has disappeared.

PaulHoule 1y ago

I don't think Windows 11 is as responsive as I wish it was. I don't have any complaints about my M4 Mini yet but if I used it to do tasks I didn't want to do that was late (psychology matters on how annoying unresponsiveness is) or had as much installed on it as I have on the Windows (e.g. things like Adobe Creative Cloud or the backup manager on my machine at work make full startup take 10+ minutes) or installed iOS 26 I might feel differently about it. I thought mobile OS were a big advance in responsiveness circa 2012: today my feelings are mixed. Low end Android phones are so bad it's easy to say "why do people get so excited about apps when it takes five minutes to load one?", my iPhone is clearly fine tuned to deliver notifications instantly, but my iPad sometimes has that out-to-lunch daydreamy feeling that Windows gives.

while_true_ 1y ago

Interesting, I have the opposite opinion. I'm considering switching from Windows to the KDE Plasma desktop and so far I'm impressed with it. Plasma is the first Linux desktop I've used that feels polished and professional. It is more customizable than Windows is. I'm looking to avoid Win 11 with its telemetry, background downloads, advertisements, OneDrive problems, etc.

linguae 1y ago

“Trash” is too harsh of a word, but I do feel that desktop Linux lacks the fit-and-finish of Windows and macOS. It boils down to development resources. The Mac ecosystem has a much smaller number of hardware configurations that macOS needs to be concerned about. Apple has the resources to test these configurations. Even in the PC ecosystem with its plethora of hardware configurations, Microsoft is also a well-resourced company and is thus capable of testing a wide range of configurations. The Linux ecosystem, on the other hand, is much more loosely coordinated among many different parties that may or may not be acting in accord with each other. There are no Apple- or Microsoft-level entities investing hundreds of millions of dollars into desktop Linux development. In fact, given the circumstances, it’s quite impressive we have desktop Linux at all. Even with its Sisyphean setbacks, it’s come quite a long way compared to 20 years ago when I first started using Linux.

roscas 1y ago

I understand you. I'm forced to be used by Windows at work. There are so many problems I already forgot most of it. But still, every bluetooth connections hangs the mouse for 2 seconds, explorer worst program ever written ever in any operating system. Windows boots with 7GB of ram being used of the 8 the machine has. Every day I collect some goodies for a book or page to show how bad it is. It is worst than the worst Linux you can find. And it should not be because the amount of money goes into it, it's absurd. Then people go into Mac because while being bad for privacy and a lock environment, it is still best than Windows. But Linux is not like any of those. Some companies that take care of a specific distro, make a good job, including Ubuntu, that I really don't like. But you do have a stable RockyLinux or Manjaro, both with a few supported desktop environments that work. I also don't like Kubuntu or anything from Ubuntu. Gnome works but I don't like it. So all that is left if Plasma and XFCE. You do have many others that are nice, but it is better to test them out first, on real hardware. There are a few things that only work on Windows, mostly software that checks if it is not Windows. But you do have all on Linux. Desktop environments and windows managers, server software and games, email, graphics, you name it! You also have Windows software that runs better on Linux. Updates? Lol! Windows updates? Yeah sure. And people say ArchLinux is too rolling! LOL! Do you know how many updates Teams gets in the morning? Yes, wait for the afternoon. Ok so what is my choice? ArchLinux with XFCE. I do like Manjaro on all flavours. Love RockyLinux also.

grigio 1y ago

Probably Gnome software center is trash, try Debian with `apt instal X` 20y never disappointed

Citizen8396 1y ago

Are you using a Bluetooth mouse? I've noticed some Apple devices (AirPods) can cause interference with mouses (some Logitech models).