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Chat Control Is Back on the Menu in the EU. It Still Must Be Stopped

76 points by latexr 1y ago

billy99k 1y ago
grumble grumble..something about brexiters being right..grumble..grumble.
- guerrilla 1y ago
  You must be kidding. The UK is far worse than this and still paying the price for Brexit as well.
- Macha 1y ago
  This would be more believable if the UK hadn't already passed this type of legislation.
  - dblacc 1y ago
    has it ?
    - Macha 1y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Safety_Act_2023 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Safety_Act_2023
tharne 1y ago
It continues to amaze me how much time Europeans spend criticizing the U.S. for all of our nonsense, while they too are sprinting toward a more authoritarian future.
- Hikikomori 1y ago
  It's almost like its different people.
  - piva00 1y ago
    It is also the same people, criticising the USA for the bullshit they do, and the EU for the bullshit they do. Not sure why it needs to be camp X vs camp Y, the same people can criticise both...
    - rightbyte 1y ago
      There is this sudden resurgance of jingoism to account for that.
- shafyy 1y ago
  We can criticise the US and the EU at the same time.
- latexr 1y ago
  There’s no incongruence in criticising both. Don’t be a tribalist arguing for one over the other; criticise each for what they do wrong, and praise each for what they do right. Argue for a better world for all instead of wishing for others to be worse off.
  - tharne 1y ago
    There's no incongruence as you say, but focusing on problems in other countries where you have little to no first hand knowledge or influence and no real skin in the game is just a distraction.
nickslaughter02 1y ago
I think many outside of EU dismiss this as an EU only thing and don't think much about it. 1. Have you ever texted someone from EU? You are now chat controlled too. 2. EU is pumping billions to foreign countries to promote EU values. How long until they condition this "help" with chat control?
NSPG911 1y ago
what is going on with society now what happened to a fun internet
nickslaughter02 1y ago
EU countries will vote on the proposal on October 13th during the Justice and Home Affairs Council meeting.
- latexr 1y ago
  It’s on the 14th. From the article: > Despite strong opposition, Denmark is pushing forward and taking its current proposal to the Justice and Home Affairs Council meeting on October 14th.
  - Eddy_Viscosity2 1y ago
    What is it about the Danes in particular that make them want to be spied on and surveilled by the government? Is it some sort of weird national fetish?
    - kode95 1y ago
      As a Dane: I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion. A ton of people in Denmark are sceptical about this. You may argue that the Danes voted for the government that is now in favor in the surveillance, but the issue of surveillance weren't even on the agenda in the last election, so this has taken most people by surprise.
      - Eddy_Viscosity2 1y ago
        Is there any way to remove elected EU representatives from office? When are the next EU elections? Is anyone using this as a campaigning issue, like "Don't vote these crooks in again, vote for me and I will end this chat control nonsense!"
    - latexr 1y ago
      The Danish people don’t want it, there’s even a parliamentary petition against it. https://mastodon.social/@chatcontrol/115241974344102261 https://mastodon.social/@chatcontrol/115241974344102261 It’s just that the current Presidency of the Council of the European Union is Danish, so they are the ones with the authority to push this now. https://danish-presidency.consilium.europa.eu https://danish-presidency.consilium.europa.eu
hugoromano 1y ago
Politicians promoting Chat Control are handing an advantage to dictatorships, organized crime, and adversaries of the European Union or perhaps they're assets of those very adversaries.
- nickslaughter02 1y ago
  > or perhaps they're assets of those very adversaries They have damaged the image of EU to the point that I think it's plausible.
thw_9a83c 1y ago
It's not even active yet, and I have already started to have an icky feeling when using things like WhatsUp. Who will watch the watchers?
- xela79 1y ago
  > and I have already started to have an icky feeling when using things like WhatsUp. since when? since Facebook bought it, right? right???
EGreg 1y ago
Perhaps now my response to Moxie Marlinspike from years ago is as relevant as ever, including for people on HN: https://community.intercoin.app/t/web3-moxie-signal-telegram-and-why-decentralization-matters/2230 https://community.intercoin.app/t/web3-moxie-signal-telegram... I guess Moxie “found out”, because being centralized, Signal can have only one response to this — retreat and retreat: https://www.techradar.com/computing/cyber-security/we-will-not-walk-back-signal-would-rather-leave-the-uk-and-sweden-than-remove-encryption-protections https://www.techradar.com/computing/cyber-security/we-will-n... Decentralized open source is essential to human freedom. I can’t believe so many talented technologists and entrepreneurs are on HN correctly diagnosing the problems with relying on centralized platforms of governments and corporations, but then these same people oppose anything that has the words “web3” or “blockchain” in it. They oppose it so strongly, they won’t click and read any details, they’ll just knee-jerk downvote it. And they’ll boost every argument against it. But we absolutely need ways to monetize open source and have it compete without becoming enshittified, pleasing shareholders and creating big juicy targets for governments and advertisers. Opposing micropayments and blockchain settlements is just useful idiocy in the governments’ war against privacy and autonomy, and make no mistake, it is a global war, not just in the EU. Here is the map: https://community.qbix.com/t/the-global-war-on-end-to-end-encryption/214 https://community.qbix.com/t/the-global-war-on-end-to-end-en... It is not just the EU. It is a probably happening in your country as we speak.
- rightbyte 1y ago
  > but then these same people Do you keep track of the user names? There is no hive mind.
  - EGreg 1y ago
    I am speaking in generalities, over years of experience seeing what gets downvoted and defended Web3 and blockchain - downvoted without engagement with substance Any criticism of AI - both downvoted and has a comment: “it was always like this even before AI”
- soraminazuki 1y ago
  I can get behind making secure chats decentralized, but putting it on a blockchain? Why? I don't want my supposedly private chats going to a public ledger, encrypted or not.
puppycodes 1y ago
It's hard to beleive the number of intelligent people involved in this terrible idea
- soraminazuki 1y ago
  Oh, how we all wish that people with terrible ideas are all unintelligent.
railka 1y ago
If politicians keep bringing this up, why shouldn't EU citizens bring up the issue of losing trust in politicians (using the same tactic—over and over again)?
nomnomshark41 1y ago
that's why projects should be build around decentralization and post quantum encryption like Chhaya

76 points by latexr 1y ago

billy99k 1y ago

grumble grumble..something about brexiters being right..grumble..grumble.

guerrilla 1y ago
You must be kidding. The UK is far worse than this and still paying the price for Brexit as well.
Macha 1y ago
This would be more believable if the UK hadn't already passed this type of legislation.
- dblacc 1y ago
  has it ?
  - Macha 1y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Safety_Act_2023 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Safety_Act_2023

tharne 1y ago

It continues to amaze me how much time Europeans spend criticizing the U.S. for all of our nonsense, while they too are sprinting toward a more authoritarian future.

Hikikomori 1y ago
It's almost like its different people.
- piva00 1y ago
  It is also the same people, criticising the USA for the bullshit they do, and the EU for the bullshit they do. Not sure why it needs to be camp X vs camp Y, the same people can criticise both...
  - rightbyte 1y ago
    There is this sudden resurgance of jingoism to account for that.
shafyy 1y ago
We can criticise the US and the EU at the same time.
latexr 1y ago
There’s no incongruence in criticising both. Don’t be a tribalist arguing for one over the other; criticise each for what they do wrong, and praise each for what they do right. Argue for a better world for all instead of wishing for others to be worse off.
- tharne 1y ago
  There's no incongruence as you say, but focusing on problems in other countries where you have little to no first hand knowledge or influence and no real skin in the game is just a distraction.

nickslaughter02 1y ago

I think many outside of EU dismiss this as an EU only thing and don't think much about it. 1. Have you ever texted someone from EU? You are now chat controlled too. 2. EU is pumping billions to foreign countries to promote EU values. How long until they condition this "help" with chat control?

NSPG911 1y ago

what is going on with society now what happened to a fun internet

nickslaughter02 1y ago

EU countries will vote on the proposal on October 13th during the Justice and Home Affairs Council meeting.

latexr 1y ago
It’s on the 14th. From the article: > Despite strong opposition, Denmark is pushing forward and taking its current proposal to the Justice and Home Affairs Council meeting on October 14th.
- Eddy_Viscosity2 1y ago
  What is it about the Danes in particular that make them want to be spied on and surveilled by the government? Is it some sort of weird national fetish?
  - kode95 1y ago
    As a Dane: I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion. A ton of people in Denmark are sceptical about this. You may argue that the Danes voted for the government that is now in favor in the surveillance, but the issue of surveillance weren't even on the agenda in the last election, so this has taken most people by surprise.
    - Eddy_Viscosity2 1y ago
      Is there any way to remove elected EU representatives from office? When are the next EU elections? Is anyone using this as a campaigning issue, like "Don't vote these crooks in again, vote for me and I will end this chat control nonsense!"
  - latexr 1y ago
    The Danish people don’t want it, there’s even a parliamentary petition against it. https://mastodon.social/@chatcontrol/115241974344102261 https://mastodon.social/@chatcontrol/115241974344102261 It’s just that the current Presidency of the Council of the European Union is Danish, so they are the ones with the authority to push this now. https://danish-presidency.consilium.europa.eu https://danish-presidency.consilium.europa.eu

hugoromano 1y ago

Politicians promoting Chat Control are handing an advantage to dictatorships, organized crime, and adversaries of the European Union or perhaps they're assets of those very adversaries.

nickslaughter02 1y ago
> or perhaps they're assets of those very adversaries They have damaged the image of EU to the point that I think it's plausible.

thw_9a83c 1y ago

It's not even active yet, and I have already started to have an icky feeling when using things like WhatsUp. Who will watch the watchers?

xela79 1y ago
> and I have already started to have an icky feeling when using things like WhatsUp. since when? since Facebook bought it, right? right???

EGreg 1y ago

Perhaps now my response to Moxie Marlinspike from years ago is as relevant as ever, including for people on HN: https://community.intercoin.app/t/web3-moxie-signal-telegram-and-why-decentralization-matters/2230 https://community.intercoin.app/t/web3-moxie-signal-telegram... I guess Moxie “found out”, because being centralized, Signal can have only one response to this — retreat and retreat: https://www.techradar.com/computing/cyber-security/we-will-not-walk-back-signal-would-rather-leave-the-uk-and-sweden-than-remove-encryption-protections https://www.techradar.com/computing/cyber-security/we-will-n... Decentralized open source is essential to human freedom. I can’t believe so many talented technologists and entrepreneurs are on HN correctly diagnosing the problems with relying on centralized platforms of governments and corporations, but then these same people oppose anything that has the words “web3” or “blockchain” in it. They oppose it so strongly, they won’t click and read any details, they’ll just knee-jerk downvote it. And they’ll boost every argument against it. But we absolutely need ways to monetize open source and have it compete without becoming enshittified, pleasing shareholders and creating big juicy targets for governments and advertisers. Opposing micropayments and blockchain settlements is just useful idiocy in the governments’ war against privacy and autonomy, and make no mistake, it is a global war, not just in the EU. Here is the map: https://community.qbix.com/t/the-global-war-on-end-to-end-encryption/214 https://community.qbix.com/t/the-global-war-on-end-to-end-en... It is not just the EU. It is a probably happening in your country as we speak.

rightbyte 1y ago
> but then these same people Do you keep track of the user names? There is no hive mind.
- EGreg 1y ago
  I am speaking in generalities, over years of experience seeing what gets downvoted and defended Web3 and blockchain - downvoted without engagement with substance Any criticism of AI - both downvoted and has a comment: “it was always like this even before AI”
soraminazuki 1y ago
I can get behind making secure chats decentralized, but putting it on a blockchain? Why? I don't want my supposedly private chats going to a public ledger, encrypted or not.

puppycodes 1y ago

It's hard to beleive the number of intelligent people involved in this terrible idea

soraminazuki 1y ago
Oh, how we all wish that people with terrible ideas are all unintelligent.

railka 1y ago

If politicians keep bringing this up, why shouldn't EU citizens bring up the issue of losing trust in politicians (using the same tactic—over and over again)?

nomnomshark41 1y ago

that's why projects should be build around decentralization and post quantum encryption like Chhaya