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Germany allows apartment tenants to hang panels on their balcony and feed 800W for their needs. https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/solar/how-germany-outfitte

Germany allows apartment tenants to hang panels on their balcony and feed 800W for their needs. https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/solar/how-germany-outfitted-half-a-million-balconies-with-solar-panels https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/solar/how-germany-outfi...

toomuchtodo 1y ago
Utah also. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/plug-in-balcony-solar-becomes-legal-in-utah-but-power-company-has-concerns-with-devices-currently-available.111602/ https://diysolarforum.com/threads/plug-in-balcony-solar-beco...
- Scoundreller 1y ago
  Assuming they can’t/won’t/shouldn’t back feed, that’s a lot easier to do in most of 240V single phase land. In US/Canada, you gotta pick the side of your building’s circuit that your continuous loads are usually on.
  - actionfromafar 1y ago
    I don't understand what's different...
  - toomuchtodo 1y ago
    We're only talking ~800W 120V in most cases, so phase balancing is immaterial in this use case (in the context of balcony solar). Edit: For larger installs (many vertical panels, >1kw), agree that balancing and a dedicated circuit is likely more optimal.
    - Scoundreller 1y ago
      I mean, if you can't backfeed, you might have stuff "on" in your home, but your solar might not be on that side so it's not doing you any good.
hopelite 1y ago
What a bizarre situation. So if you have extra balcony space, you are not allowed to generate more than 800W for your own use?
- zdragnar 1y ago
  Perhaps it is an arbitrary limit picked out of concern for weight and / or live energy in a place normally meant as living quarters. Too much of either on a balcony would be a hazard, especially if everyone with a balcony was doing it simultaneously in buildings not really built with either in mind. 800w sounds low to me, especially on 120v in the US, but the rules may have been in place for older less efficient / bulkier panels in mind.
  - namibj 1y ago
    Mind you higher powers just need a licensed electrician to sign off and usually also have them permanently wire it in as those setups won't need an AC side plug so the costs of essentially a generator hookup over a fixed tie-in isn't worth it, and they require notifying the local grid. Might be that beyond 10kWp the grid can tell you sorry-capacity-not-ready (but the grid will have to fix that soon, there are rules) but yeah.
- littlecranky67 1y ago
  This is complicated legalese. "For your own use" doesn't technical exist, you are outputting your solar production into the main grid - and this is capped at 800W for grid (and house installation) safety and stability issues. You need a meter that can run backwards, but you have the right to demand from your electricity provider that they install one. Bypassing the grid and using your own storage infrastructure is AFAIK not allowed in Germany (there are heavy taxes on electricity, that you would be omitting - similar as to how you technically are not allowed to make your own Schnaps at home due to taxing).
  - namibj 1y ago
    Last I read them, electricity tax was only applicable for sale and certain situations that involve transferring power across parcel/plot boundaries. An entity is allowed to generate it's own local solar power for own local consumption, and for that it's perfectly fine to rent/lease the equipment/panels but you can't just tax-free buy electricity itself outside some limited situations that are to allow e.g. an apartment tower to use solar panels as cladding to then sell the power to the tenants instead of forcing every tenant to lease their own electrically independent section of the facade.

toomuchtodo 1y ago

Utah also. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/plug-in-balcony-solar-becomes-legal-in-utah-but-power-company-has-concerns-with-devices-currently-available.111602/ https://diysolarforum.com/threads/plug-in-balcony-solar-beco...

Scoundreller 1y ago
Assuming they can’t/won’t/shouldn’t back feed, that’s a lot easier to do in most of 240V single phase land. In US/Canada, you gotta pick the side of your building’s circuit that your continuous loads are usually on.
- actionfromafar 1y ago
  I don't understand what's different...
- toomuchtodo 1y ago
  We're only talking ~800W 120V in most cases, so phase balancing is immaterial in this use case (in the context of balcony solar). Edit: For larger installs (many vertical panels, >1kw), agree that balancing and a dedicated circuit is likely more optimal.
  - Scoundreller 1y ago
    I mean, if you can't backfeed, you might have stuff "on" in your home, but your solar might not be on that side so it's not doing you any good.

hopelite 1y ago

What a bizarre situation. So if you have extra balcony space, you are not allowed to generate more than 800W for your own use?

zdragnar 1y ago
Perhaps it is an arbitrary limit picked out of concern for weight and / or live energy in a place normally meant as living quarters. Too much of either on a balcony would be a hazard, especially if everyone with a balcony was doing it simultaneously in buildings not really built with either in mind. 800w sounds low to me, especially on 120v in the US, but the rules may have been in place for older less efficient / bulkier panels in mind.
- namibj 1y ago
  Mind you higher powers just need a licensed electrician to sign off and usually also have them permanently wire it in as those setups won't need an AC side plug so the costs of essentially a generator hookup over a fixed tie-in isn't worth it, and they require notifying the local grid. Might be that beyond 10kWp the grid can tell you sorry-capacity-not-ready (but the grid will have to fix that soon, there are rules) but yeah.
littlecranky67 1y ago
This is complicated legalese. "For your own use" doesn't technical exist, you are outputting your solar production into the main grid - and this is capped at 800W for grid (and house installation) safety and stability issues. You need a meter that can run backwards, but you have the right to demand from your electricity provider that they install one. Bypassing the grid and using your own storage infrastructure is AFAIK not allowed in Germany (there are heavy taxes on electricity, that you would be omitting - similar as to how you technically are not allowed to make your own Schnaps at home due to taxing).
- namibj 1y ago
  Last I read them, electricity tax was only applicable for sale and certain situations that involve transferring power across parcel/plot boundaries. An entity is allowed to generate it's own local solar power for own local consumption, and for that it's perfectly fine to rent/lease the equipment/panels but you can't just tax-free buy electricity itself outside some limited situations that are to allow e.g. an apartment tower to use solar panels as cladding to then sell the power to the tenants instead of forcing every tenant to lease their own electrically independent section of the facade.