10 ms·
Meta-analysis of 2.2M people: Loneliness increases mortality risk by 32%
- WASDAai 1y ago[flagged]
- tstactplsignore 1y agoThis is AI generated gibberish unrelated to the article. A brief look at this account's history shows that is all it posts. Is this allowed here?
- softwaredoug 1y agoHow much is related to people suffering a medical emergency and nobody being around to help? vs. How much is the actual emotional impact of loneliness?
- lapcat 1y agoThe article cites many measurable negative health effects aside from death, so it seems that the emotional impact does matter a lot.
- mongol 1y agoThis is a very valid question. I have had a few close calls where I afterwards wonder what would have happened if I had hurt myself seriously. Chances are, no one would have paid attention in days.
- stared 1y agoIts anecdotical (though, I guess, there is plenty of data for that), but often people (especially men) don't visit a doctor early enough. It takes their partner (of friends, kids) to prompt them to get checked. Medical emergencies might be a cherry on the cake - but let's not forget that most diseases are not instantaneous - and sooner these are cached, less harm.
- trentnix 1y agoIt doesn't even have to be medical emergencies that go unnoticed. There are other declining health metrics that an independent observer might notice that a person is not aware of or is unwilling to confront. If there's no one to say "you might want to get that checked out", you probably won't get that checked out! No mistake, almost all of us can refer to an anecdote of an elderly relative dying soon after their spouse. It can be both tragic and, in hindsight, romantic. But really, the consequences of loneliness are often and unfortunately quite practical.
- AaronAPU 1y agoThere’s another side where the people you’re around downplay any sort of medical concern you have and actually discourage getting help. So I guess you have: bad company < no company < good company
- trentnix 1y agoThat's only the case if you're unaware you're in bad company! I've known a few people that were excellent weathervanes as long as you were aware there were going to always be wrong by 180 degrees.
- AaronAPU 1y agoThat’s a good framing. Just gotta be careful not to let it turn you cynical over time.
- kristopolous 1y agoI saw an analysis that demonstrated this clearly by replacing loneliness with population density. Effectively you could see the same mortality effect for people who live out in the sticks.
- bckr 1y agoA lot of PubMed links. Awesome. I’m curious what the research says about interacting online in e.g. Discord servers and other forums for niche communities. Also, is calling your childhood friend on the regular more or less potent than meeting IRL but recently-made friends?
- ipnon 1y agoThis is why doctors should recommend drinking and smoking. At a certain point the risk of premature death is greater from being a shut-in than it is from indulging in a pint and a ciggie with some buddies every once in a while.
- lapcat 1y agoPeople can and do drink and smoke alone. Indeed, lonely people may turn to alcohol for self-medication. And of course those addicted to nicotine have to smoke regardless of whether other people are around. That will just make the problem worse. Besides, smoking has largely been banned from buildings, so that habit doesn't make it convenient to gather with others, except perhaps huddled outside the door.
- the_af 1y agoI know enough cases of heavy smokers and drinkers who are also asocial (if not shut-in) to be wary of this kind of assertions...
- mrbluecoat 1y agoI'd opt for an AI friend first
- joules77 1y agoBut I don't think it makes a diff. My friend circle has had a few guys drop into hermit mode. We have tried all kinds of things to pull them out, but it's like they have decided monastic life or whatever is their thing.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- TriangleEdge 1y agoAny Meta or X employees want to comment on loneliness? I always felt like social media platforms made people lonelier overall.
- HPsquared 1y agoIt's the social equivalent of ultra-processed food. Hyper-palatable and habit-forming, you always crave more. You end up (socially) both overfed and malnourished.
- Herring 1y agoA lot of the causes are deeply structural, so it's likely to keep getting worse for the foreseeable future. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loneliness_epidemic#Causes_of_loneliness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loneliness_epidemic#Causes_of_...
- jjice 1y agoAside from a formal study, _feels_ right (for what that's worth). The healthiest people I know are generally happy and have people around who care of them and they care for. I swear the social parts of life are what keep the elderly going, in my experience.
- bilbo0s 1y agoI swear the social parts of life are what keep the elderly going, in my experience. I could've sworn there was a paper, (or maybe just an article? can't remember), a long time ago about the community on a Mediterranean island somewhere? The thesis was that people there were living abnormally long lives because of the Mediterranean style food they ate, and how socially active and interconnected they were in old age.
- paraknight 1y agoI haven't dug into all the sources, but I think there's a potential confounder here, or maybe even reverse causality. The author seems to assume causation when the studies only indicate correlation. E.g. the first link says "chronic loneliness increases mortality risk" but the actual source says "actual and perceived social isolation are both associated with increased risk for early mortality". So for example, it's possible that if you already have chronic illness, a disability, or any other kind of health issues, you're more likely to have higher social isolation and therefore be more lonely, in addition to having a higher mortality risk. There's an outside variable (your health) that is correlated with both (loneliness and mortality), but that doesn't necessarily mean that loneliness causes mortality. If this were the case, we could defend claims like "autism increases mortality", because we already know that autism increases social isolation.
- vasco 1y agoMy dismissive but practical take is "well yeah there's nobody in the room to call an ambulance when you have the heart attack you'll most likely have", which mindfulness classes and support groups don't help with. There's practical benefits to having people around.
- AndrewKemendo 1y agoBy these statistics there aren’t enough healthy people to provide care for those that are less healthy The challenge here is that healthy people don’t desire to be around unhealthy people. Society provides no incentive or social benefit for otherwise healthy people to be around the unwell to call the ambulances. Even as a nurse, hospice worker or caregiver, the pay/benefits are non existent for the amount of emotional and physical labor needed for care.
- Y_Y 1y agoYou don't have to be that healthy to call an ambulance! As long as not everyone in the sick-and-poor commune has a heart attack at the same time this should be a safe enough system.
- fullstop 1y agoBefore getting tied up with bureaucratic nonsense my daughter was looking at starting a "borrow a grandma / grandpa" club at her university. The idea was to connect students with elderly people who are lonely, and they could have tea / coffee together. The elderly get to be social with a younger generation, and the younger generation gets to understand the struggles that a lot of elderly people face. I think that the university was concerned with liability. I still think that it's a good idea.
- stronglikedan 1y agoThere's plenty of programs that do just that in the US, so maybe the university just didn't want to deal with the liability if someone else already is (if it was a US university, of course).
- raffael_de 1y agoA liability for having tea with elderly citizens?
- fullstop 1y agoThere's a lot of aspects here, such as where they would meet up, etc. If it's on school property and something happens, for example. Additionally there are restrictions for clubs operating off-campus. I don't know, it was seemingly more complicated than any of us had anticipated.
- raffael_de 1y agoIf you ask, the answer will always be No.
- lotsofpulp 1y agoIf you have sufficient money such that litigating against you is worth it, then playing defense is necessary. Universities surely qualify.
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- smithkl42 1y ago[flagged]
- whatevaa 1y agoIt's the church which destroyed itself. Using its influence for political power, that gave it short term power but destroyed it long term. And I would not agree with religion providing sense of the world. It's another coping mechanism to deal with absurdity in the world. There is a reason people fallback to religion when times get tough.
- dcminter 1y ago> Using its influence for political power, that gave it short term power but destroyed it long term. I'm no fan of organised religion, but this is a pretty wild take to me. "The church" has been around for the best part of 2000 years. It's been wildly political for most if not all of that. It doesn't show much sign of disappearing any time soon.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- gjm11 1y agoTo some of us weirdos, it actually matters whether things we repeatedly stand up and declare or sing about are true, and whether the stories we draw meaning from are factually correct, and whether values we repeatedly and publicly affiliate ourselves with are good. And, among this admittedly weird fragment of the population, those of us who think the things churchgoers affirm and derive meaning from and value are true and good are mostly already going to church, and those of us who think they're not so true and mostly not so good shouldn't be going to church, no matter how sorry our asses.
- gosub100 1y agoHave you ever given a Christmas gift to someone? Or do you abstain because it requires a belief in flying reindeer?
- deadbabe 1y agoMortality risk is already 100% isn’t it? We’re going to die, guaranteed, so what’s another 23% increase on 100%? I think a good study would be the effects of likes, upvotes and karma on overall lifespan. I’d bet that people who gain more upvotes and positive engagement in general probably live much longer than people who are chronically downvoted or ignored.
- eastbound 1y agoThat is a very clever null hypothesis to check whether disliked people tilt the balance, or whether lack of human interactions do. The ones who should do this study would be the CIA. They could remotely kill people by giving them negative social feedback all the time. It would also give weight to online harassment complaints.
- deadbabe 1y agoStrategically weaponized cyberbullying on a person whose mental state has been compromised by social media can be a creative way to kill them off if they are driven to suicide. Might be the plot of a thriller at least.
- al_borland 1y agoMindfullness as a treatment for loneliness is strange to me. This doesn't actually help with the problem of being alone, it could just make someone be more OK with it. As someone who spends a lot of time alone, one of my big fears is having a medical emergency, even just choking on food, and dying from something that would be easily avoided had another person been in the house. I've gone and looked up how to give myself the Heimlich maneuver on myself, and play out that scenario in my head all the time... or trying to get to a neighbor's house or just outside where someone might see me. Mindfulness won't help if this is how I meet my fate, actually community and relationships would.
- Herring 1y agoIt's quite a rare thing to die by choking. It just doesn't feel like it, which is where mindfulness can help. You do more dangerous things every day like walking (falls) and driving, eating (obesity), and brushing your teeth (gum disease), so if you want to work on prevention it's better to have a head that correctly assesses risk and spends your limited time/money/effort optimally.
- SirHumphrey 1y agoBut then choking is not the only health emergency when having people around is a plus. Even active people sometimes suffer from heart attacks and having someone being there doing chest compressions or at least calling for help leads to quite difficult health outcomes versus being found hours later. Same goes for strokes…
- al_borland 1y agoExactly. Many of the statistically more dangerous things are either chronic issues (obesity) or inherently in public (driving). Choking, a heart attack, etc are acute issues happening in private, which is where the fear lies. Some of those acute issues could be made more likely by the chronic issue, but not always. And if the chronic issues are known, a person can proactively get tests to hopefully avoid an acute issue. My dad just had a quadruple bypass, identified as a need based on a proactive calcium scan, rather than waiting for a heart attack.
- damnesian 1y agoI've seen this happen in person, to my grandmother. She hitched her identity to the man of the house, even signing checks "Mrs. grandad's name." She was the accountant of their farm along with housewife and cook and chicken tender. He was most of the muscle until he had to relinquish the work to their youngest son, who had moved out and into his own house. She was in relatively good health when grandad died at 76. She suddenly lost her identity, being alone in that farmhouse which she helped build and maintain, it was too full of ghosts to live alone, she moved in with the son. I never saw her smile after that. She died within months. My great-grandmother was different. her husband died young. she had 50 more years of life after that. She gardened, she sewed, she pickled and canned. She established a strong personal identity and experienced evergreen personal growth. She was a happy woman, cackling all of the time when we'd visit. When she died at 95, it was a surprise, she seemed very alive and healthy shortly beforehand. She died in her sleep, no chronic diseases. Makes me think that 32% might be traced to psychological/sociological factors.
- fullstop 1y agoIt sounds like your grandma passed from a broken heart. My mother in law lost her husband when she was in her early 60s, and I was worried that she would suffer the same fate as your grandma. She sold her house after a few years to escape the ghosts and moved into a condo near me. Her social schedule is jam-packed. There is so much to be said about having your own identity, hobbies, and passions.
- JackFr 1y ago> She hitched her identity to the man of the house, even signing checks "Mrs. grandad's name." That was quite common for much of the 20th century.
- jabroni_salad 1y agoYep. I have been doing genealogy, and the women are very hard to track down because of this. There is a lot of "Mrs. Joe Schmoe" in the papers.
- gaoshan 1y ago
- r721 1y agoOP was accused of posting AI-generated articles previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45368911 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45368911
- 77pt77 1y ago[dead]
- jwpapi 1y agoI’m unsure because I don’t enjoy most social things others do but at the same time I keep reading loneliness is bad for you lol
- naikrovek 1y agoWould you like to know why some people are lonely? Because they have interacted with people before and found the experience to be quite objectionable. I am lonely because I have dealt with too many assholes. And if it kills me sooner, good. Humanity is a garbage species full of opportunistic and adversarial people just waiting to find new people to exert power over. I can't wait to leave this hellhole.
- cindyllm 1y ago[dead]
- dzink 1y agoLoneliness directly contributes to alcoholism and a number of other self-medication addictions. Part of it is social - pubs and places that profit off of alcohol are where lonely men often go to find company. Is it malicious to exploit loneliness by offering respite to it to sell addictive substances?
- mchusma 1y agoI would expect this to be correlated to not having kids as well. Anecdotally the healthiest elderly I know are deeply involved in raising grandkids/great grandkids, and those relatives without kids I've lost early. I've heard of some efforts to pair retirement homes and preschools in some way, to benefit both, and I'd love to see that idea work in some way. I expect it to have many liability challenges but would be so good for both parties.
- anal_reactor 1y agoThis might go against the whole "just use positive thinking out of loneliness"
- lynx97 1y agoNo need to jump on the latest buzzwords, doing science. I remember this kind of study has already been done with married/unmarried peope, with basically a similar result. The explanation they gave back then was pretty logical: If you are living alone, there is nobody around to call an ambulance if you have a heart attack or similar.
- coldtea 1y ago>Loneliness increases death risk by 32% but we know how to fix it. Real solutions that cut loneliness in half, from mindfulness to community programs that actually work. And what, pray tell, works? He goes on: >Those programs in Barcelona where almost half the people stopped feeling lonely? The mindfulness stuff that works in just two weeks? Even the robot pets for elderly people “it all works”. We’re not talking about maybe or possibly here. This stuff actually works. What gets me is that fixing loneliness doesn’t require some massive revolution. Twenty minutes of mindfulness a day. A weekly volunteer shift. Slop.
- gjm11 1y agoThe following is perfectly compatible with everything in the article being correct and important (though I share the suspicion that there may be some reverse-causality going on), but the author seems to be extremely fishy in some ways. He's posting about two substantial (~10-30 pages) papers per week to the arXiv, in various areas of mathematics. He claims to have developed "Alpay Algebra: A recursive language for thought" and what he's written about it looks to me like (1) it was actually written by an LLM and (2) it's basically word/symbol salad. (He has some papers about it on the arXiv. The first isn't particularly bullshitty, but uses a great deal of formalism to say almost nothing. Later ones look like grandiose AI-written slop. And he has some web pages that are just grandiose AI-written slop.) I repeat: none of this needs to cast any particular doubt on what he writes about loneliness. He might be an AI-driven mathematical crank who also has wise thoughts about loneliness. I might just be wrong about his being an AI-driven mathematical crank, though I'd be pretty surprised. Or, for that matter, his post about loneliness might be AI-written but none the less correct. (It's the kind of thing I would expect an LLM to be able to write something reasonable about -- though in that case it would be advisable to double-check the references.) But it doesn't inspire confidence.
- tootie 1y agoI didn't dig in to every cite but a few seemed suspicious. One linked on digital interventions specifically said it showed no positive results. Another on pet ownership having 100% success rate was sponsored by the pet industry. I think the author is tripping over a lot of data and cherry picking. We know that loneliness can cause problems and interventions can help but this post seems like it is indeed a rambling jumble and not a cogent argument for anything in particular.
- Wonnk13 1y agonothing more than a n=1 anecdote, but I'm noticeably more depressed when my wife is in the office and I don't go in to a coworking space and/or do something with my friends after work. Even as an introvert I can easily see if I didn't have a partner and access to friends and socialization I'd be significantly more likely to kill myself. Before my mother started joining more retiree clubs I could literally see on her face how much more weathered and haggard she was. The isolation was physically visible on her face.
- patates 1y agoGermany has great bread, how come did the author have a problem to find good bread? Yes, that's my only issue with the article :)
- mikhailfranco 1y ago"moved from Germany to write here " So missing the good German bread. Doesn't say where 'here' is.
- patates 1y agoI must have bread that wrong.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- willyg123 1y agoThere's a YC company solving for this, Papa.com
- m3kw9 1y agoThe very first thing this article should define is what is considered loneliness in this context
- cassowary37 1y agoNot to take anything away from the meta-analysis and the important points in the blog post, but there's a glaring error in the abstract: "the weighted average effect sizes were as follows: social isolation odds ratio (OR) = 1.29, loneliness OR = 1.26, and living alone OR = 1.32, corresponding to an average of 29%, 26%, and 32% increased likelihood of mortality, respectively." The authors mean increased /odds/, not likelihood (probability). WHy does it matter? Well, when your whole paper is a statistical exercise, misusing basic statistical language in the abstract is not a great sign.
- ZpJuUuNaQ5 1y ago>Chronic loneliness Is it generally understood as feeling (being in a particular state of mind) as being lonely or just lacking social interactions in general, regardless of how one feels about it? Those two things, to my understanding, aren't the same. For example, I never had friends, and generally, I despise people. I have no "social life," and I wouldn't even be able to clearly define what it is without googling. If I lost my voice, I wouldn't notice that it happened for about a week. However, I don't feel like I am missing out on anything. Does that increase my mortality risk by over 30% or not? I only skimmed the sources, but may read it later.
- rawgabbit 1y agoThere is a lot of debate and misinformation on this subject. My understanding is this is primarily an aging or elderly issue. For the majority of people, as we age, we mentally decline which worsens health in all aspects. If you are one of the lucky ones who remain sharp until passing, this doesn't affect you as much. If you are more average, the advice is that a social network of some sort will help you as you age. There was the famous incident involving Gene Hackman. His care taker was his wife. The wife collapsed/died due to Henta virus and he passed a week later oblivious to what had happened to her. If Gene Hackman and his wife had more proactive support network (the kids or friends FaceTime them everyday), maybe this tragedy could have been avoided.
- emptybits 1y agoShameless plug for a good organization that helps fight social isolation and loneliness among elderly: Cycling Without Age. https://cyclingwithoutage.org/ https://cyclingwithoutage.org/ We're an international movement whereby volunteer cyclists pedal passengers around on what is essentially a small couch on wheels. The elderly get out into their neighbourhood while engaging with volunteers in conversation, jokes, and memories. The benefits of even brief but regular social connection are lasting, as we hear from medical professionals and care home workers and the residents themselves and their families. There's a great TED Talk on it which inspired us to start a local chapter almost eight years ago. We are in high demand and growing so if you're looking for a healthy way to serve others, consider getting in touch with your local chapter (or starting it!)
- constantcrying 1y agoThis is just fake science, which invents a mystical force that makes people healthy when they interact with other people. The causality is reversed. Unhealthy people socialize less, this explains every correlation result cited, it is a simple explanation, which doesn't need to invent some mystic force which turns people healthy, when they talk to other people. Unless there is incredibly strong evidence that the reversed causation is wrong, no other explanation should be accepted over it.
- tsoukase 1y agoAnother correlation that has to take into account decades long lifetime confounders that are the elephant in the room, especially somatic and latent mental diseases. For example lonely people are so because their relatives died early and they will soon too.
- philipallstar 1y agoSimilar meta-analysis might conclude that plaster of paris on the body increases broken limb risk by 98%.
- Obscurity4340 1y agoMeta Inc's Analysis is Line Go Up Bigly Time
- horuscrux 1y agoMarried people 50% more likely to develop dementia: https://alz-journals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/alz.70072 https://alz-journals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/alz... Remember to offset loneliness with coworkers, friends, and roommates.