6 ms·

What a disaster this will be. The end of any really open phones. By the time I cannot sideload apps or torrent onto my device, I might as well move to an iPhone

What a disaster this will be. The end of any really open phones. By the time I cannot sideload apps or torrent onto my device, I might as well move to an iPhone and at least get less data tracking and better security.

add-sub-mul-div 1y ago
I'll never reward Apple with another dime. They started and normalized this. Plus whatever rights Apple takes away next, Android will likely continue to lag behind in implementing for years.
- AnonymousPlanet 1y ago
  I don't believe for one second that Google is doing this because Apple does so too. They would have done so long ago. I would rather bet this has to do with recent political shifts that are also pushing for mandatory digital IDs and spying on encrypted messages (see UK and EU). This and Windows 11 depending on certain hardware are all pointing in one direction: a war on general computing.
  - FpUser 1y ago
    >"a war on general computing" This. It gives too much freedom to people.
  - beeflet 1y ago
    It is strange that this is happening all at once. Pretty much no major advances in the war on general purpose computing for the past decade, but in 2025 there are a number of major attempts to lock everything down.
    - BrenBarn 1y ago
      Let's think about what happened in 2025. Say, January 2025. Say, 20 January 2025.
      - hagbard_c 1y ago
        That's called 'Reductio Ad Trumpum' and it is just as absurd as its spiritual predecessor, 'Reductio Ad Hitlerum' (https://www.fallacyfiles.org/adnazium.html https://www.fallacyfiles.org/adnazium.html)
        Idesmi 1y ago
        This website is amazing, thank you for sharing!
      - alex989 1y ago
        Do you really believe it's Trump's fault that politicians in the EU are pushing for the end of encryption, mandatory digital ID, and age verifications?
        pas 1y ago
        never let a good crisis go to waste, right? but the same processes that put the orange man there put similar people in other places too and similar sentiments led to voters preferring authoritarian measures
        stavros 1y ago
        You left the DMA and GDPR out of that, which makes the entire argument conveniently one-sided.
    - realusername 1y ago
      Yes and no, Safetynet and Play Integrity were also major attacks against computing.
  - debazel 1y ago
    And Apple has been in the forefront to normalized the "a war on general computing" for more than a decade now. 15 years ago this is exactly what we said was going to happen with the normalization of Apple's locked down ecosystems, and now here we are.
    - AnonymousPlanet 1y ago
      Why single out one company? Microsoft's mobile platform was just as locked down. Microsoft's hold over boot keys is a lock down that even spreads to other OSes and will be very relevant in the future I foresee. All pieces are falling into place for the final rag pull. And like I said, I do not believe this move is because Apple paved the way. If they hadn't, Apple would make a similar announcement to Google now in 2025.
jenadine 1y ago
> The end of any really open phones. One could argue whether Phones with the Google android were ever really open. As for the really really open phone with alternative OS or Linux based OS, they will continue to exist as before. Perhaps even become more popular after this?
- creesch 1y ago
  > One could argue whether Phones with the Google android were ever really open. In recent years, you can argue that android has no longer been open. In the early years of Android that argument would be much harder to make. To be clear, I am not talking hardcore FOSS libre open. But meaningfully open for the end user to do what they want on their device without much restriction. Early android didn't have sandboxing, had no permission system, was easy to root, etc. Certainly with Nexus devices you had pretty much the freedom to what you wanted. Could it have been more open? Sure, but I feel like it is almost disingenuous to say it was never if we are comparing it to the real world situation we find ourselves in today.
  - vanviegen 1y ago
    Early android did have sandboxing and a permission system. It's just that you had to accept all permissions on app install. (Which is still a lot better than common practice on the contemporary desktop.) That didn't make the system less open though. The user gets to make an informed (or not) choice. What was different is that the Play store back then was basically a free-for-all. There was no meaningful approval process. This did contribute to making the system as a whole more open, but at a cost...
- ZiiS 1y ago
  Doubling the number of people on a custom ROM dose not nearly balance the loss of options for those that remain on a stock ROM. I do not want my less technical family to have to give away all the genuine (though imperfect) safety the Play Store currently provides.
  - ZiiS 1y ago
xandrius 1y ago
Consider trying Ubuntu Touch, very active community and fun if you're interested to be a developer. Jumping from a shark to another is maybe not the solution we should aim for. I released an app on the Ubuntu Touch store: took a minute to fill in the form and then you get people giving you feedback/help if anything doesn't work (since you can link your source code too).
- 4ggr0 1y ago
  i guess it would be 'trying' indeed, as per usual it would mean that i'd need multiple devices. 2FA, e-Banking, messaging, instant payment apps and more would probably be missing, right?
  - p0w3n3d 1y ago
    they've been waiting long for this moment to make us all addicted
  - xandrius 1y ago
    Anything that is not native and Android-based can be run with Waydroid. Of course it depends on how intertwined with the OS but it would be interesting to try. If you were to pick 3 apps which you needed to have running to switch, what would they be? (if too personal, pick from your top 10)
    - 4ggr0 1y ago
      all the apps related to e-Banking and 2FA, including government apps. and signal non-desktop. can live without the rest. _could_ live without e-Banking and 2FA etc., but don't really feel like it's worth the pain of not having those.
  - array_key_first 1y ago
    Its not that these things are missing, it's that it's physically impossible to implement them. That's done on purpose, so you're forced onto your current phone for the foreseeable future.
- 1y ago
zelphirkalt 1y ago
But then you will have to deal with lots of shit from Apple, because they do everything they can to prevent their ecosystem to interact with open source solutions and to make it difficult for normis to get data off their phone, so that after a couple of years the phones are always full and a new one "needs to be bought".
neop1x 1y ago
iPhones are terrible with their link to an icloud account and their terrible repair situation with hardware component pairing. I had an iPhone 7 for testing I bought on eBay. I had my icloud account logged into it. One day, I couldn't log in to the account despite having a correct password - "account is locked and cannot be used". It won't let me log off from the account on the device. So now I have an icloud-locked e-waste paperweight. It was an old device so I don't care much but purely on this experience I am not buying an apple device ever again. I hope there will be more truly open devices in the future eventually... otherwise I will just start considering smartphones being 2FA/banking bullshit proprietary tracking/spying devices and avoid use them sporadically..

add-sub-mul-div 1y ago

I'll never reward Apple with another dime. They started and normalized this. Plus whatever rights Apple takes away next, Android will likely continue to lag behind in implementing for years.

AnonymousPlanet 1y ago
I don't believe for one second that Google is doing this because Apple does so too. They would have done so long ago. I would rather bet this has to do with recent political shifts that are also pushing for mandatory digital IDs and spying on encrypted messages (see UK and EU). This and Windows 11 depending on certain hardware are all pointing in one direction: a war on general computing.
- FpUser 1y ago
  >"a war on general computing" This. It gives too much freedom to people.
- beeflet 1y ago
  It is strange that this is happening all at once. Pretty much no major advances in the war on general purpose computing for the past decade, but in 2025 there are a number of major attempts to lock everything down.
  - BrenBarn 1y ago
    Let's think about what happened in 2025. Say, January 2025. Say, 20 January 2025.
    - hagbard_c 1y ago
      That's called 'Reductio Ad Trumpum' and it is just as absurd as its spiritual predecessor, 'Reductio Ad Hitlerum' (https://www.fallacyfiles.org/adnazium.html https://www.fallacyfiles.org/adnazium.html)
      - Idesmi 1y ago
        This website is amazing, thank you for sharing!
    - alex989 1y ago
      Do you really believe it's Trump's fault that politicians in the EU are pushing for the end of encryption, mandatory digital ID, and age verifications?
      - pas 1y ago
        never let a good crisis go to waste, right? but the same processes that put the orange man there put similar people in other places too and similar sentiments led to voters preferring authoritarian measures
      - stavros 1y ago
        You left the DMA and GDPR out of that, which makes the entire argument conveniently one-sided.
  - realusername 1y ago
    Yes and no, Safetynet and Play Integrity were also major attacks against computing.
- debazel 1y ago
  And Apple has been in the forefront to normalized the "a war on general computing" for more than a decade now. 15 years ago this is exactly what we said was going to happen with the normalization of Apple's locked down ecosystems, and now here we are.
  - AnonymousPlanet 1y ago
    Why single out one company? Microsoft's mobile platform was just as locked down. Microsoft's hold over boot keys is a lock down that even spreads to other OSes and will be very relevant in the future I foresee. All pieces are falling into place for the final rag pull. And like I said, I do not believe this move is because Apple paved the way. If they hadn't, Apple would make a similar announcement to Google now in 2025.

jenadine 1y ago

> The end of any really open phones. One could argue whether Phones with the Google android were ever really open. As for the really really open phone with alternative OS or Linux based OS, they will continue to exist as before. Perhaps even become more popular after this?

creesch 1y ago
> One could argue whether Phones with the Google android were ever really open. In recent years, you can argue that android has no longer been open. In the early years of Android that argument would be much harder to make. To be clear, I am not talking hardcore FOSS libre open. But meaningfully open for the end user to do what they want on their device without much restriction. Early android didn't have sandboxing, had no permission system, was easy to root, etc. Certainly with Nexus devices you had pretty much the freedom to what you wanted. Could it have been more open? Sure, but I feel like it is almost disingenuous to say it was never if we are comparing it to the real world situation we find ourselves in today.
- vanviegen 1y ago
  Early android did have sandboxing and a permission system. It's just that you had to accept all permissions on app install. (Which is still a lot better than common practice on the contemporary desktop.) That didn't make the system less open though. The user gets to make an informed (or not) choice. What was different is that the Play store back then was basically a free-for-all. There was no meaningful approval process. This did contribute to making the system as a whole more open, but at a cost...
ZiiS 1y ago
Doubling the number of people on a custom ROM dose not nearly balance the loss of options for those that remain on a stock ROM. I do not want my less technical family to have to give away all the genuine (though imperfect) safety the Play Store currently provides.
- ZiiS 1y ago

xandrius 1y ago

Consider trying Ubuntu Touch, very active community and fun if you're interested to be a developer. Jumping from a shark to another is maybe not the solution we should aim for. I released an app on the Ubuntu Touch store: took a minute to fill in the form and then you get people giving you feedback/help if anything doesn't work (since you can link your source code too).

4ggr0 1y ago
i guess it would be 'trying' indeed, as per usual it would mean that i'd need multiple devices. 2FA, e-Banking, messaging, instant payment apps and more would probably be missing, right?
- p0w3n3d 1y ago
  they've been waiting long for this moment to make us all addicted
- xandrius 1y ago
  Anything that is not native and Android-based can be run with Waydroid. Of course it depends on how intertwined with the OS but it would be interesting to try. If you were to pick 3 apps which you needed to have running to switch, what would they be? (if too personal, pick from your top 10)
  - 4ggr0 1y ago
    all the apps related to e-Banking and 2FA, including government apps. and signal non-desktop. can live without the rest. _could_ live without e-Banking and 2FA etc., but don't really feel like it's worth the pain of not having those.
- array_key_first 1y ago
  Its not that these things are missing, it's that it's physically impossible to implement them. That's done on purpose, so you're forced onto your current phone for the foreseeable future.
1y ago

zelphirkalt 1y ago

But then you will have to deal with lots of shit from Apple, because they do everything they can to prevent their ecosystem to interact with open source solutions and to make it difficult for normis to get data off their phone, so that after a couple of years the phones are always full and a new one "needs to be bought".

neop1x 1y ago

iPhones are terrible with their link to an icloud account and their terrible repair situation with hardware component pairing. I had an iPhone 7 for testing I bought on eBay. I had my icloud account logged into it. One day, I couldn't log in to the account despite having a correct password - "account is locked and cannot be used". It won't let me log off from the account on the device. So now I have an icloud-locked e-waste paperweight. It was an old device so I don't care much but purely on this experience I am not buying an apple device ever again. I hope there will be more truly open devices in the future eventually... otherwise I will just start considering smartphones being 2FA/banking bullshit proprietary tracking/spying devices and avoid use them sporadically..