5 ms·

Is there now? High functioning autism exists, but autism in general doesn't seem to give any advantage to general intelligence. And the low end of functioning

Is there now? High functioning autism exists, but autism in general doesn't seem to give any advantage to general intelligence. And the low end of functioning in autism is really, really low.

ok_dad 1y ago
The spectrum doesn’t work that way, it’s more like a grab bag of traits than a “low to high” thing. High functioning is often just a way to dismiss the needs for certain autistic individuals who can mask very well.
- bigfatkitten 1y ago
  And for girls in particular, who go mostly undiagnosed because they tend to present very differently to boys.
- PaulHoule 1y ago
  I'd say otherwise. My wife has a student in her riding academy who is a severely autistic adult who is not independent and gets intensive support from her mom and aides that she hires who turn over rapidly because of the difficulty of the job. She has several seizures on some days. One beautiful day when they were tacking up the horse she thought it was a great day to take a walk (it was!) and took off down the driveway and they pressed me into service looking for her. She wandered onto the neighbor's property and when they asked her what was up she took one of them by the arm and started walking back to our place, she then let go of their arm and grabbed onto mine and I brought her back to everyone's relief.
  - al_borland 1y ago
    You know what they say, “if you’ve met one autistic person, you’ve met one autistic person.”
    - tedk-42 1y ago
      Yep it's like they're grouping all kinds of mental disabilities as autism
      - PaulHoule 1y ago
        It is the so-called "autists" who do that. It's become a vanity diagnosis for the rich and powerful. Look at the case of Kanye West https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/sick-people-are-sick https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/sick-people-are-sick There was this study that found that "autists" have 5 different diseases https://www.princeton.edu/news/2025/07/09/major-autism-study-uncovers-biologically-distinct-subtypes-paving-way-precision https://www.princeton.edu/news/2025/07/09/major-autism-study... If it wasn't something people were flocking to like neurotypicals that is now a valuable part of their identity they'd just be honest and say that a lot of these people would have to give up their diagnosis. Funny enough, before autism became a fad there were 5 different conditions for it in the DSM... https://spectrumofhope.com/blog/5-different-types-of-autism/ https://spectrumofhope.com/blog/5-different-types-of-autism/ Now we need an "awareness of everybody who isn't autistic" movement.
        al_borland 1y ago
        You’re arguing semantics here. You seem to acknowledge there are diagnosable issues, both with the subtype article and older DSM, but because it’s under one umbrella currently you want to throw it out instead of acknowledging the issues?
        PaulHoule 1y ago
        See https://www.amazon.com/Autism-Matrix-Gil-Eyal/dp/074564399X https://www.amazon.com/Autism-Matrix-Gil-Eyal/dp/074564399X One issue is that special ed has taken all the air out of the room for kids who are not thriving in school but don’t have a diagnosis. I went to a PTA meeting where the superintendent completely dismissed any concerns I had about the school but gushed over how the mother of a “special” kid was a partner in his education. (Other parents and teachers did show some sympathy) If you want to have some rights as a parent you are practically forced to get your child a diagnosis: if they are in the bottom 25% of readers that have ‘Dyslexia’ which similarly seems to have distinct enough subtypes that an honest definition is ‘bottom 25% of readers’ So autism went from being a disabling condition to something that applies to many people who really ought to have “no apparent distress” in their chart because you can’t be different without some reification of the difference.
jiggawatts 1y ago
An observation I've made is that the most people ("the general population") will compromise on hard facts without pause to attain social goals. I.e.: They will follow instructions from a workplace superior with zero push-back even if the instructions are total nonsense or impossible to physically implement. It's a rare breed (1-2%) of the population that will actively push back, insist on facts, and stick to only the "hard, unyielding reality" of physics, chemistry, mathematics, physics, logic, etc... There is a very high correlation between these types of people and autistic people. You have to not care about how other people "feel" or what their conflicting priorities might be to prioritise reality above the personal whims of others. To be truly intelligent, you have to be able to call the emperor naked. PS: It's easy to disagree with the above, but this is invariably an instance of "the fish is the last to know it lives in water" idiom. Something like 80% of the adult population goes along with Santa for Grownups because of peer pressure, also known as "mainstream religions". Don't get me started on partisan voting against one's own interests. Etc...
- jmogly 1y ago
  I think dismissing social realities as not being part of that hard, unyielding reality is a mistake. Part of intelligence (maybe a different part) is being able to bend the social fabric to achieve desirable outcomes. The other thing is you don’t always know why people do what they do, the world is a very subjective place. The people at work who don’t call things out, they might just be collecting a paycheck and are happy to not call things out. The poor conservative from Florida, they might actually hate immigrants more than they care about quality healthcare.
  - jiggawatts 1y ago
    > I think dismissing social realities as not being part of that hard, unyielding reality is a mistake. One of the realities is more unyielding than the other. Pi can’t be redefined to be exactly 3 no matter how socially important the legislator is.
    - pfisherman 1y ago

Is there now? High functioning autism exists, but autism in general doesn't seem to give any advantage to general intelligence. And the low end of functioning in autism is really, really low.

ok_dad 1y ago

The spectrum doesn’t work that way, it’s more like a grab bag of traits than a “low to high” thing. High functioning is often just a way to dismiss the needs for certain autistic individuals who can mask very well.

bigfatkitten 1y ago
And for girls in particular, who go mostly undiagnosed because they tend to present very differently to boys.
PaulHoule 1y ago
I'd say otherwise. My wife has a student in her riding academy who is a severely autistic adult who is not independent and gets intensive support from her mom and aides that she hires who turn over rapidly because of the difficulty of the job. She has several seizures on some days. One beautiful day when they were tacking up the horse she thought it was a great day to take a walk (it was!) and took off down the driveway and they pressed me into service looking for her. She wandered onto the neighbor's property and when they asked her what was up she took one of them by the arm and started walking back to our place, she then let go of their arm and grabbed onto mine and I brought her back to everyone's relief.
- al_borland 1y ago
  You know what they say, “if you’ve met one autistic person, you’ve met one autistic person.”
  - tedk-42 1y ago
    Yep it's like they're grouping all kinds of mental disabilities as autism
    - PaulHoule 1y ago
      It is the so-called "autists" who do that. It's become a vanity diagnosis for the rich and powerful. Look at the case of Kanye West https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/sick-people-are-sick https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/sick-people-are-sick There was this study that found that "autists" have 5 different diseases https://www.princeton.edu/news/2025/07/09/major-autism-study-uncovers-biologically-distinct-subtypes-paving-way-precision https://www.princeton.edu/news/2025/07/09/major-autism-study... If it wasn't something people were flocking to like neurotypicals that is now a valuable part of their identity they'd just be honest and say that a lot of these people would have to give up their diagnosis. Funny enough, before autism became a fad there were 5 different conditions for it in the DSM... https://spectrumofhope.com/blog/5-different-types-of-autism/ https://spectrumofhope.com/blog/5-different-types-of-autism/ Now we need an "awareness of everybody who isn't autistic" movement.
      - al_borland 1y ago
        You’re arguing semantics here. You seem to acknowledge there are diagnosable issues, both with the subtype article and older DSM, but because it’s under one umbrella currently you want to throw it out instead of acknowledging the issues?
        PaulHoule 1y ago
        See https://www.amazon.com/Autism-Matrix-Gil-Eyal/dp/074564399X https://www.amazon.com/Autism-Matrix-Gil-Eyal/dp/074564399X One issue is that special ed has taken all the air out of the room for kids who are not thriving in school but don’t have a diagnosis. I went to a PTA meeting where the superintendent completely dismissed any concerns I had about the school but gushed over how the mother of a “special” kid was a partner in his education. (Other parents and teachers did show some sympathy) If you want to have some rights as a parent you are practically forced to get your child a diagnosis: if they are in the bottom 25% of readers that have ‘Dyslexia’ which similarly seems to have distinct enough subtypes that an honest definition is ‘bottom 25% of readers’ So autism went from being a disabling condition to something that applies to many people who really ought to have “no apparent distress” in their chart because you can’t be different without some reification of the difference.

jiggawatts 1y ago

An observation I've made is that the most people ("the general population") will compromise on hard facts without pause to attain social goals. I.e.: They will follow instructions from a workplace superior with zero push-back even if the instructions are total nonsense or impossible to physically implement. It's a rare breed (1-2%) of the population that will actively push back, insist on facts, and stick to only the "hard, unyielding reality" of physics, chemistry, mathematics, physics, logic, etc... There is a very high correlation between these types of people and autistic people. You have to not care about how other people "feel" or what their conflicting priorities might be to prioritise reality above the personal whims of others. To be truly intelligent, you have to be able to call the emperor naked. PS: It's easy to disagree with the above, but this is invariably an instance of "the fish is the last to know it lives in water" idiom. Something like 80% of the adult population goes along with Santa for Grownups because of peer pressure, also known as "mainstream religions". Don't get me started on partisan voting against one's own interests. Etc...

jmogly 1y ago
I think dismissing social realities as not being part of that hard, unyielding reality is a mistake. Part of intelligence (maybe a different part) is being able to bend the social fabric to achieve desirable outcomes. The other thing is you don’t always know why people do what they do, the world is a very subjective place. The people at work who don’t call things out, they might just be collecting a paycheck and are happy to not call things out. The poor conservative from Florida, they might actually hate immigrants more than they care about quality healthcare.
- jiggawatts 1y ago
  > I think dismissing social realities as not being part of that hard, unyielding reality is a mistake. One of the realities is more unyielding than the other. Pi can’t be redefined to be exactly 3 no matter how socially important the legislator is.
  - pfisherman 1y ago