5 ms·

For a while I was nodding along, being able to picture what occurred and understand how the adults dealt with it. Then I realized these people were ~16 years o

For a while I was nodding along, being able to picture what occurred and understand how the adults dealt with it. Then I realized these people were ~16 years old. Maybe it was an outlier? I looked up what the typical age of school shooters in the US is: also 16-17 years old. If a lot of these are bullying victims, something is seriously wrong. Looking back at my own time in school, people had grown out of this sort of bullying years earlier. Teachers would treat you like young adults by 16. If you engaged in this sort of extreme bullying at that age, you wouldn't get summoned to the headmaster's office to get a slap on the wrist - you'd face real consequences and might even find yourself dealing with police if not in juvenile court. Are these kids just not growing up because they're still being treated like 9 year olds when they're almost adults? I'd understand the occasional outlier, since even the occasional developmentally stunted "adult" engages in bullying, but it really shouldn't be a common theme. It is likely most adults still engaging in this behavior simply never were given reason to grow up before their behavioral patterns crystallized, much like the protagonists in our story at hand.

dmitrygr 1y ago
> If you engaged in this sort of extreme bullying at that age, you wouldn't get summoned to the headmaster's office to get a slap on the wrist - you'd face real consequences Clearly you didn’t go to American schools! If you complain, the teachers do nothing (not wanting to get involved or get hurt - teachers being hurt by students isn’t uncommon [1]) and the bullies bully you harder. If you fight back, the school administration gets YOU into trouble only. Ask me how I know. [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=teacher+beaten+by+student https://www.google.com/search?q=teacher+beaten+by+student
- Animats 1y ago
  What are the rules of engagement today when being bullied in school? Apparently shooting bullies is a no-no. You only get to do that as an adult in stand-your-ground states.[1] If attacked, do you get to use an improvised weapon such as a baseball bat? Great question to ask your school administrators, especially if you're a military brat and grew up around people who have to know when and where to use their lethal force. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law
  - elevation 1y ago
    The public educators I’ve spoken with are trained that any initiating any physical contact with a student even in self defense is strictly a liability and grounds for dismissal. The only permissible response to an assault from a student is for a teacher to use their elbows to cover their own abdomen (limiting damage to their internal organs) until the attack subsides. While that instruction is to educators, I can’t imagine that school policy would allow student victims to respond any differently, because the parents of a bully with a broken nose could sue the school.
- chmod775 1y ago
  How do you know? (no, I didn't go to an American school)
  - dmitrygr 1y ago
    First. Hand. Experience. With both options
  - gs17 1y ago
    I also have first-hand experience, albeit a decade-plus in the past now, but that matches how it was at my school. They only got involved when there was violence, and a "zero-tolerance" policy meant they punished you for getting assaulted even if you didn't fight back (fortunately, no one at my school realized you could get someone you didn't like suspended by doing a hit and run and turning yourself in).
ocdtrekkie 1y ago
In my senior year (age 18), a kid jumped on me and tried to beat me up. I pushed him off me and reported it to the school. I got a mandatory suspension for "being in a fight" under the school's zero tolerance policy. The funny outcome of this is that I realized I should've just beat him back, I would've faced no penalty because he wouldn't have reported it and he would've realized I wasn't a target. I do feel like SROs (police officers in schools) are much more common today than they were when I was in high school, but I am not sure treating school kids like adults always works out great either.
- keanb 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - ocdtrekkie 1y ago
    Adults don't resolve conflicts by beating each other up. If this was your school's lesson, I'm sorry.
    - dzhiurgis 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - vkou 1y ago
        Majority of this site, likely including you, probably don't support absolute pacifism. Unless you are on the trivial fringe that subscribes to it, the question is always not whether violence is required to protect yourself, it is at what point and against whom is violence required, and what are the rules around it. Fascists so far have a track record for at worst, killing a few million people, and at best, absolutely ruining the countries they have managed to take over. Their movements have historically not been bound by any law, including their own.
  - AtlasBarfed 1y ago
    If you are being threatened physically and violently as an adult, to the point you fear for your life, then.... you go to "authorities". If the "authorities" don't take it seriously, you have to "protect yourself". If the threat is by a larger/stronger person or people, you even the odds with....

dmitrygr 1y ago

> If you engaged in this sort of extreme bullying at that age, you wouldn't get summoned to the headmaster's office to get a slap on the wrist - you'd face real consequences Clearly you didn’t go to American schools! If you complain, the teachers do nothing (not wanting to get involved or get hurt - teachers being hurt by students isn’t uncommon [1]) and the bullies bully you harder. If you fight back, the school administration gets YOU into trouble only. Ask me how I know. [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=teacher+beaten+by+student https://www.google.com/search?q=teacher+beaten+by+student

Animats 1y ago
What are the rules of engagement today when being bullied in school? Apparently shooting bullies is a no-no. You only get to do that as an adult in stand-your-ground states.[1] If attacked, do you get to use an improvised weapon such as a baseball bat? Great question to ask your school administrators, especially if you're a military brat and grew up around people who have to know when and where to use their lethal force. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law
- elevation 1y ago
  The public educators I’ve spoken with are trained that any initiating any physical contact with a student even in self defense is strictly a liability and grounds for dismissal. The only permissible response to an assault from a student is for a teacher to use their elbows to cover their own abdomen (limiting damage to their internal organs) until the attack subsides. While that instruction is to educators, I can’t imagine that school policy would allow student victims to respond any differently, because the parents of a bully with a broken nose could sue the school.
chmod775 1y ago
How do you know? (no, I didn't go to an American school)
- dmitrygr 1y ago
  First. Hand. Experience. With both options
- gs17 1y ago
  I also have first-hand experience, albeit a decade-plus in the past now, but that matches how it was at my school. They only got involved when there was violence, and a "zero-tolerance" policy meant they punished you for getting assaulted even if you didn't fight back (fortunately, no one at my school realized you could get someone you didn't like suspended by doing a hit and run and turning yourself in).

ocdtrekkie 1y ago

In my senior year (age 18), a kid jumped on me and tried to beat me up. I pushed him off me and reported it to the school. I got a mandatory suspension for "being in a fight" under the school's zero tolerance policy. The funny outcome of this is that I realized I should've just beat him back, I would've faced no penalty because he wouldn't have reported it and he would've realized I wasn't a target. I do feel like SROs (police officers in schools) are much more common today than they were when I was in high school, but I am not sure treating school kids like adults always works out great either.

keanb 1y ago
[flagged]
- ocdtrekkie 1y ago
  Adults don't resolve conflicts by beating each other up. If this was your school's lesson, I'm sorry.
  - dzhiurgis 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - vkou 1y ago
      Majority of this site, likely including you, probably don't support absolute pacifism. Unless you are on the trivial fringe that subscribes to it, the question is always not whether violence is required to protect yourself, it is at what point and against whom is violence required, and what are the rules around it. Fascists so far have a track record for at worst, killing a few million people, and at best, absolutely ruining the countries they have managed to take over. Their movements have historically not been bound by any law, including their own.
- AtlasBarfed 1y ago
  If you are being threatened physically and violently as an adult, to the point you fear for your life, then.... you go to "authorities". If the "authorities" don't take it seriously, you have to "protect yourself". If the threat is by a larger/stronger person or people, you even the odds with....