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> But such things tend to be very economically inefficient, so the government would be wise to discourage such production. Absurd comment. Governments should

> But such things tend to be very economically inefficient, so the government would be wise to discourage such production. Absurd comment. Governments should subsidise local food production to whatever extent necessary, especially when it's economically inefficient, because stable staple food supplies should not be external dependencies.

jstanley 1y ago
Rice isn't exactly a staple food in the UK. And you can still have efficient food production in the UK, it's just that small artisanal "under 100 food-miles" farming is inefficient.
- RandomLensman 1y ago
  Unless there is direct food security issue, not sure why inefficiency as such would warrant government interference.
  - rob_c 1y ago
    Have you been paying attention to the farming sector in the last 5yr? There's plenty of problems reminiscent of the 30s after the whole chain has been kicked around due to labour from Brexit, supply due to Brexit, access to markets from Brexit and then the joy of dealing with the cv19 lockdowns. The sector is still facing real financial problems and none of the last few governments have seen farmers as anything other than land owning cash cows.
    - RandomLensman 1y ago
      But why would that lead to the government discouraging rice farming?
  - jstanley 1y ago
    > not sure why inefficiency as such would warrant government interference Agreed
  - pydry 1y ago
    Food security issues dont necessarily give you enough time to prepare.
- closewith 1y ago
  > Rice isn't exactly a staple food in the UK. Rice is now very much a staple food in the UK. > And you can still have efficient food production in the UK, it's just that small artisanal "under 100 food-miles" farming is inefficient. Economically inefficient, but diversity of local supply in a key factor in food security, and as a hopeless food insecure country, the UK should be diversifying as much as possible, especially to crops that will thrive in the coming climate.
  - dehrmann 1y ago
    > Rice is now very much a staple food in the UK. I knew a Brit who described chicken tikka masala as the national dish of the UK.
- dboreham 1y ago
  What about Rice Krispies?
- layer8 1y ago
  Staple foods tend to change with circumstances, they aren’t set in stone.
- klooney 1y ago
  Lotta people who eat more rice than legacy Britons have moved there though.
eru 1y ago
I'm glad Singapore doesn't subscribe to this notion.
- closewith 1y ago
  What are you talking about? The Singapore Food Agency was created primarily to increase domestic food production even though it is extremely economically inefficient singularly to try to improve food security, which is completely dependent on imports and the precarious freedom of navigation in the straits.
  - eru 1y ago
    Sure, they might want to increase it a bit, but I don't think anyone sane is going for autarky in Singapore, ie 'stable staple food supplies should not be external dependencies.' Not even the Singapore Food Agency.
    - closewith 1y ago
      I think you made a flippant comment not realising how seriously a threat that food insecurity poses to Singaporean independence and now feel you can't back down, but you're just wrong on this one. 30X30 aims to supply 30% of nutritional needs by 2030 using only 1% of the land precisely to make progress towards 100% calorie self-sufficiency.
rob_c 1y ago
No they should really really be discussing things like this. This is like trying to claim bioethanol is somehow carbon negative. It's broken from a farming standpoint (and we're a nation starting to face issues with production. Notice how I say starting not we're starving there's several world's of different yet) It's broken from an economic standpoint because you're going to try and take on the whole of Asia who could crush you in a single shipment. It's broken from a mindset perspective. British wine may be one that grabs interest over here like British vodka. But people will not pay 10x or more for British rice. It will be seen as a stupid concept or idea. It's broken because again... Who in Britain is clamouring for more rice options? This is a product type which is already over saturated at the normal supermarket, let alone the choices when you're willing to shop online. If there's no discouragement to projects like this idiots will run the land into ruin, lose a lot of money. Drive away needed capital from farms looking to turn around their fortunes and damage the sector. I'm not saying British farms are about to collapse and we're all about to starve here, but the sector is struggling.
- closewith 1y ago
  > But people will not pay 10x or more for British rice. Unless and until it's the only carbohydrate source available due to some global war or disaster. All countries should be aiming for domestic food security and diversity.
  - dzhiurgis 1y ago
    And fuel diversity. And manufacturing diversity. And mineral extraction diversity. And so on and on. But at which point this becomes ridiculous?
    - closewith 1y ago
      The UK Energy Security Plan does at least try to cover essential energy needs (food production, hospitals, defence, civil powers and authorities, etc) indefinitely from domestic supply. The Defence Industrial Strategy does the same for essential manufacturing capabilities. Raw material supply security is the purview of many government bodies, including MOD, BGS, and more. > But at which point this becomes ridiculous? Securing the food supply to your population, the absolute most basic of human needs along with the water and shelter, is the furthest thing from ridiculous.
forgotoldacc 1y ago
It's wild that you got downvoted for this reasonable take. Right next door, Ireland had a little problem with potatoes and a massive famine resulted from it. Had the island had a more diverse mix of crops, things probably would've been a little less severe. There are currently pests and infections spreading around the world and destroying crops. Bananas are undergoing a repeat of their last global crop failure and isolated pockets of uninfected bananas are becoming more valuable. Natural rubber had a disease that wiped out most rubber trees. It's not impossible for wheat in Europe to be hit with a plague in the near future and absolutely wipe out crops and food sources for hundreds of millions. There's war in Eastern Europe that risks spreading, and if it does, embargoes are possible. Investing now in alternative local food sources is simply smart. Profit now isn't everything. The problem that's gutting the west now is how countries shipped off every industry to other cheaper countries because it was "more profitable and nothing bad will happen." Now the youth are left with less than their parents had. Plus the article addresses this being done as a climate change-proofing measure. With the UK getting hotter, rice grows better and better. Other crops may not.
- crote 1y ago
  > Right next door, Ireland had a little problem with potatoes Common misconception: Ireland actually had a little problem with the British. Even during the most intense parts of the famine Ireland was still exporting food. The British absentee landowners simply did not care that their peasants were starving. The ruling party wanted to let the "free market" solve it, with some politicians considering it "divine providence" or a "lack of moral character". This was made even worse by refusing aid to small landowners, which killed sustenance farming. People often forget that it was a European famine, rather than an Irish one. The Irish potato yield was reduced by 30%, while the potato yield in Denmark was reduced by 50%, The Netherlands by 71%, and Belgium by 87%! Tens of thousands died in those countries, but it is only Ireland where the population was reduced from 8 million to 4 million. Monoculture (as decided upon by the absentee British landlords) was indeed the direct cause, but it only got as bad as it did because the British elite chose to let them die. Had they imported alternative crops to feed their peasants, or even just stopped potato export, it would've been far less severe.
dukeyukey 1y ago
Should they incentivise rice, which doesn't grow great in the climate of economic environment of the UK, or wheat, which does?
- closewith 1y ago
  Generally both, but rice will grow well, potentially better than wheat, in the coming climate.
  - amanaplanacanal 1y ago
    Unless the North Atlantic current dies. Ooof.

jstanley 1y ago

Rice isn't exactly a staple food in the UK. And you can still have efficient food production in the UK, it's just that small artisanal "under 100 food-miles" farming is inefficient.

RandomLensman 1y ago
Unless there is direct food security issue, not sure why inefficiency as such would warrant government interference.
- rob_c 1y ago
  Have you been paying attention to the farming sector in the last 5yr? There's plenty of problems reminiscent of the 30s after the whole chain has been kicked around due to labour from Brexit, supply due to Brexit, access to markets from Brexit and then the joy of dealing with the cv19 lockdowns. The sector is still facing real financial problems and none of the last few governments have seen farmers as anything other than land owning cash cows.
  - RandomLensman 1y ago
    But why would that lead to the government discouraging rice farming?
- jstanley 1y ago
  > not sure why inefficiency as such would warrant government interference Agreed
- pydry 1y ago
  Food security issues dont necessarily give you enough time to prepare.
closewith 1y ago
> Rice isn't exactly a staple food in the UK. Rice is now very much a staple food in the UK. > And you can still have efficient food production in the UK, it's just that small artisanal "under 100 food-miles" farming is inefficient. Economically inefficient, but diversity of local supply in a key factor in food security, and as a hopeless food insecure country, the UK should be diversifying as much as possible, especially to crops that will thrive in the coming climate.
- dehrmann 1y ago
  > Rice is now very much a staple food in the UK. I knew a Brit who described chicken tikka masala as the national dish of the UK.
dboreham 1y ago
What about Rice Krispies?
layer8 1y ago
Staple foods tend to change with circumstances, they aren’t set in stone.
klooney 1y ago
Lotta people who eat more rice than legacy Britons have moved there though.

eru 1y ago

I'm glad Singapore doesn't subscribe to this notion.

closewith 1y ago
What are you talking about? The Singapore Food Agency was created primarily to increase domestic food production even though it is extremely economically inefficient singularly to try to improve food security, which is completely dependent on imports and the precarious freedom of navigation in the straits.
- eru 1y ago
  Sure, they might want to increase it a bit, but I don't think anyone sane is going for autarky in Singapore, ie 'stable staple food supplies should not be external dependencies.' Not even the Singapore Food Agency.
  - closewith 1y ago
    I think you made a flippant comment not realising how seriously a threat that food insecurity poses to Singaporean independence and now feel you can't back down, but you're just wrong on this one. 30X30 aims to supply 30% of nutritional needs by 2030 using only 1% of the land precisely to make progress towards 100% calorie self-sufficiency.

rob_c 1y ago

No they should really really be discussing things like this. This is like trying to claim bioethanol is somehow carbon negative. It's broken from a farming standpoint (and we're a nation starting to face issues with production. Notice how I say starting not we're starving there's several world's of different yet) It's broken from an economic standpoint because you're going to try and take on the whole of Asia who could crush you in a single shipment. It's broken from a mindset perspective. British wine may be one that grabs interest over here like British vodka. But people will not pay 10x or more for British rice. It will be seen as a stupid concept or idea. It's broken because again... Who in Britain is clamouring for more rice options? This is a product type which is already over saturated at the normal supermarket, let alone the choices when you're willing to shop online. If there's no discouragement to projects like this idiots will run the land into ruin, lose a lot of money. Drive away needed capital from farms looking to turn around their fortunes and damage the sector. I'm not saying British farms are about to collapse and we're all about to starve here, but the sector is struggling.

closewith 1y ago
> But people will not pay 10x or more for British rice. Unless and until it's the only carbohydrate source available due to some global war or disaster. All countries should be aiming for domestic food security and diversity.
- dzhiurgis 1y ago
  And fuel diversity. And manufacturing diversity. And mineral extraction diversity. And so on and on. But at which point this becomes ridiculous?
  - closewith 1y ago
    The UK Energy Security Plan does at least try to cover essential energy needs (food production, hospitals, defence, civil powers and authorities, etc) indefinitely from domestic supply. The Defence Industrial Strategy does the same for essential manufacturing capabilities. Raw material supply security is the purview of many government bodies, including MOD, BGS, and more. > But at which point this becomes ridiculous? Securing the food supply to your population, the absolute most basic of human needs along with the water and shelter, is the furthest thing from ridiculous.

forgotoldacc 1y ago

It's wild that you got downvoted for this reasonable take. Right next door, Ireland had a little problem with potatoes and a massive famine resulted from it. Had the island had a more diverse mix of crops, things probably would've been a little less severe. There are currently pests and infections spreading around the world and destroying crops. Bananas are undergoing a repeat of their last global crop failure and isolated pockets of uninfected bananas are becoming more valuable. Natural rubber had a disease that wiped out most rubber trees. It's not impossible for wheat in Europe to be hit with a plague in the near future and absolutely wipe out crops and food sources for hundreds of millions. There's war in Eastern Europe that risks spreading, and if it does, embargoes are possible. Investing now in alternative local food sources is simply smart. Profit now isn't everything. The problem that's gutting the west now is how countries shipped off every industry to other cheaper countries because it was "more profitable and nothing bad will happen." Now the youth are left with less than their parents had. Plus the article addresses this being done as a climate change-proofing measure. With the UK getting hotter, rice grows better and better. Other crops may not.

crote 1y ago
> Right next door, Ireland had a little problem with potatoes Common misconception: Ireland actually had a little problem with the British. Even during the most intense parts of the famine Ireland was still exporting food. The British absentee landowners simply did not care that their peasants were starving. The ruling party wanted to let the "free market" solve it, with some politicians considering it "divine providence" or a "lack of moral character". This was made even worse by refusing aid to small landowners, which killed sustenance farming. People often forget that it was a European famine, rather than an Irish one. The Irish potato yield was reduced by 30%, while the potato yield in Denmark was reduced by 50%, The Netherlands by 71%, and Belgium by 87%! Tens of thousands died in those countries, but it is only Ireland where the population was reduced from 8 million to 4 million. Monoculture (as decided upon by the absentee British landlords) was indeed the direct cause, but it only got as bad as it did because the British elite chose to let them die. Had they imported alternative crops to feed their peasants, or even just stopped potato export, it would've been far less severe.

dukeyukey 1y ago

Should they incentivise rice, which doesn't grow great in the climate of economic environment of the UK, or wheat, which does?

closewith 1y ago
Generally both, but rice will grow well, potentially better than wheat, in the coming climate.
- amanaplanacanal 1y ago
  Unless the North Atlantic current dies. Ooof.