4 ms·

It’s a really a shame to put such a good cpu in such an artificially limited phone. Apple already has all the elements required for effective convergence but wo

It’s a really a shame to put such a good cpu in such an artificially limited phone. Apple already has all the elements required for effective convergence but would rather have us lug gimped devices out of greed. The current situation is so sad for actual innovation. I don’t want a MacBook with an A19, I want to use the A19 I already have connected to a screen and a keyboard with a proper software stack.

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jasonwatkinspdx 1y ago
The vast majority of the market is totally uninterested in docking their phone like that though. So Apple et all are making a reasonable choice.
- bigyabai 1y ago
  > So Apple et all are making a reasonable choice. Interesting how people rationalize this stuff. My phone can dock to a screen; I've never used the feature, but it doesn't obstruct anything I do. It's a nice-to-have, and it would be kinda appealing if Firefox and Spotify both work like normal. I might even deign to say I could get work done on it (though I've never tried). Presumably the real reason is that Apple is still afraid to segment their market. A plug-in iPhone would stop people from buying the AppleTV or Mac Mini for home theater applications.
  - GeekyBear 1y ago
    Chrome on Android doesn't allow you to use plugins like uBlock Origin. People manage to rationalize that decision, which makes the web largely unusable for users in the name of protecting Google's bottom line. Thankfully, there are other options.
    - bigyabai 1y ago
      Great advice, thanks for sharing! I use Firefox/Gecko with upstream Ublock Origin on Android, like I said one comment ago. You should try it, but you might need a desktop computer if your smartphone discriminates against browser engines.
      - GeekyBear 1y ago
        Until Google blocks Firefox on Android the way they have already blocked the full version of uBlock Origin from working in desktop Chrome? They seem very serious about using every lever at their disposal to prevent YouTube users from having access to adblock that works.
  - scarface_74 1y ago
    You really think Apple is worried about the sales of the AppleTV and Mac Mini? Two of their lowest selling devices? You can already plug an iPhone into a TV for video with a standard non proprietary HDMI to USB C cable and AirPlay is available on $49 Roku sticks.
    - bigyabai 1y ago
      Presumably. Is your guess any better?
      - scarface_74 1y ago
        Only around 10% of Apple’s revenue is the Mac and every estimate is 70% of those are laptops. The AppleTV is far behind in market share for media center devices or whatever you call Roku, Fire sticks etc. You can already stream from your iPhone via AirPlay to at least Roku sticks/TVs and I assume others. The number of people who want to use an iPhone as a full computer is miniscule.
  - commandersaki 1y ago
    I'll chuck in another rationalisation from just one angle (of many). It's a low in demand feature that if they implement they would have to support. One thing that Apple does incredibly well (I really can't think of any tech company that comes close) is provide front line support for virtually every capability and feature in the Apple ecosystem. This means they have to resource support people to know how the feature works, and troubleshoot it when things have issue, dedicate engineer resources if an issue cannot be fixed and requires escalation, etc. Just having such a feature involves a cost, and the juice is just not worth the squeeze. Curious, if your phone supports the feature and it doesn't work, what is your recourse?
- dclowd9901 1y ago
  As someone who loves their laptop, I couldn't disagree more. I would absolutely love a single device with that kind of flexibility.
- paxys 1y ago
  The vast majority of the market didn't need an iPhone at all until it was introduced. If you enable compelling enough use cases people will find ways for them to fit their workflows, and/or come up with brand new ones. The biggest hurdle standing in the way is that making a single one of iPhone/iPad/Mac too powerful (in terms of usability, not just raw processing power) will take away sales from the other two.
  - Aurornis 1y ago
    There have been numerous attempts at dockable phones over the years. > The biggest hurdle standing in the way is that making a single one of iPhone/iPad/Mac too powerful (in terms of usability, not just raw processing power) will take away sales from the other two. No it won’t. Nobody is cross-shopping a full size laptop with screen and keyboard or a phone with a tiny screen and no keyboard.
    - fruitworks 1y ago
      the most recent attempt with linux is pretty good, but it was held back by the slow hardware and driver support. If the pinephone had enough power to record a video, and maybe better waydroid integration I would use it. I like the convenience of using the same apps as on my laptop, and being able to develop on the same platform that I am targeting. That is a unique selling point. Apple has the funding to do this, but they choose not to. It would damage their whole market segmentation scheme. It is a penetration strategy
      - JustExAWS 1y ago
        > I like the convenience of using the same apps as on my laptop, and being able to develop on the same platform that I am targeting. That is a unique selling point. And almost all of my apps have iPhone, iPad and Mac versions with cloud syncing of the data between them. It’s just a flag for developers to allow iPad apps to run on ARM based Macs without any modifications. > *and being able to develop on the same platform that I am targeting. That is a unique selling point.* With ARM based Macs, they basically are the same except for the screen size. Compilation speed would be much slower on an iPhone than a Mac.
- zamadatix 1y ago
  I thought the same about putting keyboards on iPads, especially with how limited those still are, but now I don't know what to expect.
  - scarface_74 1y ago
    So exactly how is an iPad limited for most people with iOS 26? Please don’t say because they need to run a terminal and Docker.
    - zamadatix 1y ago
      I think it largely comes down to the App Store limitation at this point (the UI is... livable enough now, though it does still seem a waste to not just have the macOS UI in keyboard-attached mode). Consumers can't take things like their Steam library over and workers can't just run existing enterprise apps - it has to be Apple approved apps which fit the Apple architectural requirements and are purchased/distributed through the Apple Store. For a small subset that is absolutely also stuff like terminal and Docker, but there's nothing special about that group beyond "they use a different set of apps not allowed in the App Store".
      - musicale 1y ago
        > workers can't just run existing enterprise apps On iOS, Microsoft apps and a web browser can get you fairly far for many business/corporate use cases.
        zamadatix 1y ago
        That's pretty much Microsoft's approach on every system now - even if you install Outlook or Teams, it's just a web app. If it weren't for that I wonder if keyboards on iPads would even still be common at all. That said, there is a heck of a lot more to enterprise apps than things like email still out there. When I was still at a health system we'd try to use tablets for new things whenever possible (they are just physically convenient in many work environments) but we'd inevitably end up with "web stuff" on the tablet and "everything else" on a laptop (sometimes with mobile cart) for this exact reason.
- bapak 1y ago
  > The vast majority of the market is totally uninterested in docking their phone like that though s/uninterested/unaware/ In reality, for such hardware to make sense, it would have to be a full MacBook Air minus the PCB. Would you be willing to spend 500-1000 USD for a piece of hardware that only works when your phone is connected? (i.e. an iPhone accessory)
  - bagful 1y ago
    I simply ask that Apple let me plug my phone into any USB-C dock and use it as if I had done the same with a MacBook.
  - fruitworks 1y ago
    a bluetooth mouse and keyboard wouldn't suffice? I just found one on amazon for $20
    - MisterSandman 1y ago
      You’re gonna replace your 13/15inch laptop with a 6inch phone screen?
      - raw_anon_1111 1y ago
        This works with Macs, Windows PCs and USB C based iPhones and iPads. You just connect it with a USB C cable. It gets power and video from the USB C cable. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B095GG31KX?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share https://www.amazon.com/dp/B095GG31KX?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_shar... I take it with me when I travel.
- GeekyBear 1y ago
  It would be interesting to see a tablet sized dual mode device where the OS and user apps could seamlessly switch back and forth between a 100% touch mode UI and a 100% precision pointing mode UI without restarting or losing data. It would mean a lot more work for developers though if your app needs two different UI designs. One issue that sticks out is that touch controls of a usable size just take up so much more screen space. Also, look at how many years it took Microsoft to provide touch friendly access to the Windows control panels.
- 7thpower 1y ago
  You seem very confident. Did you come to that conclusion based on the market not using a product that doesn’t exist?
  - jodrellblank 1y ago
    Maybe they came to that conclusion based on the market ignoring a product that did exist and that’s why the product doesn’t exist now. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/01/canonical-unveils-ubuntu-phone-os-that-doubles-as-a-full-pc/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/01/canonical-unveils-ub...
    - 7thpower 1y ago
      So your reference point is a niche device from 2013 running a stillborn mobile OS with a 1ghz processor, and because that didn’t gain traction, you’ve concluded the segment is not viable. Okay.
      - jodrellblank 1y ago
        My reference point is existing for many years and seeing many people pushing for dockable computers and seeing them repeatedly not take off. Notably the people pushing for dockable computers are computer geeks who say things like "I only listen to OGG Vorbis, MP3 is unusable" and "no wireless, less space than a Nomad, lame" and "I could build Dropbox in a weekend with rsync" and "I don't understand why people need to see pictures or video, text is all I need". Normal people aren't itching to SSH from their TV using a bluetooth keyboard connected to a smartphone with a VPN so they can do X-Forwarding of Brave browser. Normal people are fine with buying a laptop with Gmail and using an Android TV stick to watch from a streaming service.
- oliwarner 1y ago
  I think this is a pretty poor reading of the market. Everyone has a phone. An increasing segment now has little access to desktop or laptop computing. I know I hate that I have to pick up my laptop to do relatively small tasks that I'm halfway through on my phone. Offering a dockable screen/keyboard/mouse, using the phone battery/compute/storage seems like it would be trivial for Apple. Obviously cannibalises laptop or tablet sales, but that's not the market's disinterest.
  - jeron 1y ago
    >An increasing segment now has little access to desktop or laptop computing. source? or are we just going off vibes here?
    - hajile 1y ago
      https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/fact-sheet/mobile/ https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/fact-sheet/mobile/ 15% and increasing quickly. That’s nearly 1 in 5.
amelius 1y ago
People are OK with a dictator as long as they think they are acting in their interest. See Apple, but also US politics.
- schaefer 1y ago
  and Linus?
- GeekyBear 1y ago
  Speak for yourself. I stopped using Windows when Microsoft made it obvious that they fully intend to force users to use an online account to log into their own local machine. Requiring an online account if you want to use optional online features was perfectly acceptable. Needing an online account to access your own PC? Absolutely not.
  - amelius 1y ago
    Nobody said that Windows has no problems.
EasyMark 1y ago
I'd be happy with a mac tablet running the A19 with a cut to the bone macos, that would be quite something.
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dzhiurgis 1y ago
MacBook logic board is probably less than 20% of its total cost. So by the time you put screen, speakers, keyboard, trackpad, battery, ports, case, hinge, charging into your dock you might as well computer there.
- philistine 1y ago
  Yeah, I totally agree with you but usually people who complain about not being able to plug their phone want a desktop, not a laptop. Even then, sitting down at a desk gives you a thermal envelope that is only limited by the noise of its cooling, so you can put extremely powerful chips on desktops again defeating the purpose.
- StopDisinfo910 1y ago
  I don’t want a laptop dock. I want to be able to connect my phone to the dock I already have on my desk or carry with me a foldable screen and keyboard when I need portability. That would give me a larger lighter screen that a MacBook and a better typing experience. I already have headphones. I already have a secondary battery. Actually make all of this wireless and that would be perfect. Plus if the screen support touch you have a tablet. The laptop has a device makes less and less sense now that the cpu and gpu inside a phone are good enough for most. It’s propped up only because phone providers artificially limit what the software on the phone can do.
  - dzhiurgis 1y ago
    The amount of friction in this is insane. The only way this can work is wireless at which point you are reinventing a laptop.
    - StopDisinfo910 1y ago
      How are you reinventing a laptop? There is zero friction. You already have the phone. All the pieces are technically there to seamlessly connecting to a screen and a keyboard wirelessly and have it become a proper computer which is what it always was. I think Google has seen it and that’s why they have started working on their desktop mode but they are sadly stuck with underpowered cpu. You need to think bigger. The sole reason this is not already a reality is because it would be a loss of money for Apple.
eboynyc32 1y ago
What can’t you do on your phone? You can even code it.

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jasonwatkinspdx 1y ago

The vast majority of the market is totally uninterested in docking their phone like that though. So Apple et all are making a reasonable choice.

bigyabai 1y ago
> So Apple et all are making a reasonable choice. Interesting how people rationalize this stuff. My phone can dock to a screen; I've never used the feature, but it doesn't obstruct anything I do. It's a nice-to-have, and it would be kinda appealing if Firefox and Spotify both work like normal. I might even deign to say I could get work done on it (though I've never tried). Presumably the real reason is that Apple is still afraid to segment their market. A plug-in iPhone would stop people from buying the AppleTV or Mac Mini for home theater applications.
- GeekyBear 1y ago
  Chrome on Android doesn't allow you to use plugins like uBlock Origin. People manage to rationalize that decision, which makes the web largely unusable for users in the name of protecting Google's bottom line. Thankfully, there are other options.
  - bigyabai 1y ago
    Great advice, thanks for sharing! I use Firefox/Gecko with upstream Ublock Origin on Android, like I said one comment ago. You should try it, but you might need a desktop computer if your smartphone discriminates against browser engines.
    - GeekyBear 1y ago
      Until Google blocks Firefox on Android the way they have already blocked the full version of uBlock Origin from working in desktop Chrome? They seem very serious about using every lever at their disposal to prevent YouTube users from having access to adblock that works.
- scarface_74 1y ago
  You really think Apple is worried about the sales of the AppleTV and Mac Mini? Two of their lowest selling devices? You can already plug an iPhone into a TV for video with a standard non proprietary HDMI to USB C cable and AirPlay is available on $49 Roku sticks.
  - bigyabai 1y ago
    Presumably. Is your guess any better?
    - scarface_74 1y ago
      Only around 10% of Apple’s revenue is the Mac and every estimate is 70% of those are laptops. The AppleTV is far behind in market share for media center devices or whatever you call Roku, Fire sticks etc. You can already stream from your iPhone via AirPlay to at least Roku sticks/TVs and I assume others. The number of people who want to use an iPhone as a full computer is miniscule.
- commandersaki 1y ago
  I'll chuck in another rationalisation from just one angle (of many). It's a low in demand feature that if they implement they would have to support. One thing that Apple does incredibly well (I really can't think of any tech company that comes close) is provide front line support for virtually every capability and feature in the Apple ecosystem. This means they have to resource support people to know how the feature works, and troubleshoot it when things have issue, dedicate engineer resources if an issue cannot be fixed and requires escalation, etc. Just having such a feature involves a cost, and the juice is just not worth the squeeze. Curious, if your phone supports the feature and it doesn't work, what is your recourse?
dclowd9901 1y ago
As someone who loves their laptop, I couldn't disagree more. I would absolutely love a single device with that kind of flexibility.
paxys 1y ago
The vast majority of the market didn't need an iPhone at all until it was introduced. If you enable compelling enough use cases people will find ways for them to fit their workflows, and/or come up with brand new ones. The biggest hurdle standing in the way is that making a single one of iPhone/iPad/Mac too powerful (in terms of usability, not just raw processing power) will take away sales from the other two.
- Aurornis 1y ago
  There have been numerous attempts at dockable phones over the years. > The biggest hurdle standing in the way is that making a single one of iPhone/iPad/Mac too powerful (in terms of usability, not just raw processing power) will take away sales from the other two. No it won’t. Nobody is cross-shopping a full size laptop with screen and keyboard or a phone with a tiny screen and no keyboard.
  - fruitworks 1y ago
    the most recent attempt with linux is pretty good, but it was held back by the slow hardware and driver support. If the pinephone had enough power to record a video, and maybe better waydroid integration I would use it. I like the convenience of using the same apps as on my laptop, and being able to develop on the same platform that I am targeting. That is a unique selling point. Apple has the funding to do this, but they choose not to. It would damage their whole market segmentation scheme. It is a penetration strategy
    - JustExAWS 1y ago
      > I like the convenience of using the same apps as on my laptop, and being able to develop on the same platform that I am targeting. That is a unique selling point. And almost all of my apps have iPhone, iPad and Mac versions with cloud syncing of the data between them. It’s just a flag for developers to allow iPad apps to run on ARM based Macs without any modifications. > *and being able to develop on the same platform that I am targeting. That is a unique selling point.* With ARM based Macs, they basically are the same except for the screen size. Compilation speed would be much slower on an iPhone than a Mac.
zamadatix 1y ago
I thought the same about putting keyboards on iPads, especially with how limited those still are, but now I don't know what to expect.
- scarface_74 1y ago
  So exactly how is an iPad limited for most people with iOS 26? Please don’t say because they need to run a terminal and Docker.
  - zamadatix 1y ago
    I think it largely comes down to the App Store limitation at this point (the UI is... livable enough now, though it does still seem a waste to not just have the macOS UI in keyboard-attached mode). Consumers can't take things like their Steam library over and workers can't just run existing enterprise apps - it has to be Apple approved apps which fit the Apple architectural requirements and are purchased/distributed through the Apple Store. For a small subset that is absolutely also stuff like terminal and Docker, but there's nothing special about that group beyond "they use a different set of apps not allowed in the App Store".
    - musicale 1y ago
      > workers can't just run existing enterprise apps On iOS, Microsoft apps and a web browser can get you fairly far for many business/corporate use cases.
      - zamadatix 1y ago
        That's pretty much Microsoft's approach on every system now - even if you install Outlook or Teams, it's just a web app. If it weren't for that I wonder if keyboards on iPads would even still be common at all. That said, there is a heck of a lot more to enterprise apps than things like email still out there. When I was still at a health system we'd try to use tablets for new things whenever possible (they are just physically convenient in many work environments) but we'd inevitably end up with "web stuff" on the tablet and "everything else" on a laptop (sometimes with mobile cart) for this exact reason.
bapak 1y ago
> The vast majority of the market is totally uninterested in docking their phone like that though s/uninterested/unaware/ In reality, for such hardware to make sense, it would have to be a full MacBook Air minus the PCB. Would you be willing to spend 500-1000 USD for a piece of hardware that only works when your phone is connected? (i.e. an iPhone accessory)
- bagful 1y ago
  I simply ask that Apple let me plug my phone into any USB-C dock and use it as if I had done the same with a MacBook.
- fruitworks 1y ago
  a bluetooth mouse and keyboard wouldn't suffice? I just found one on amazon for $20
  - MisterSandman 1y ago
    You’re gonna replace your 13/15inch laptop with a 6inch phone screen?
    - raw_anon_1111 1y ago
      This works with Macs, Windows PCs and USB C based iPhones and iPads. You just connect it with a USB C cable. It gets power and video from the USB C cable. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B095GG31KX?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share https://www.amazon.com/dp/B095GG31KX?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_shar... I take it with me when I travel.
GeekyBear 1y ago
It would be interesting to see a tablet sized dual mode device where the OS and user apps could seamlessly switch back and forth between a 100% touch mode UI and a 100% precision pointing mode UI without restarting or losing data. It would mean a lot more work for developers though if your app needs two different UI designs. One issue that sticks out is that touch controls of a usable size just take up so much more screen space. Also, look at how many years it took Microsoft to provide touch friendly access to the Windows control panels.
7thpower 1y ago
You seem very confident. Did you come to that conclusion based on the market not using a product that doesn’t exist?
- jodrellblank 1y ago
  Maybe they came to that conclusion based on the market ignoring a product that did exist and that’s why the product doesn’t exist now. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/01/canonical-unveils-ubuntu-phone-os-that-doubles-as-a-full-pc/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/01/canonical-unveils-ub...
  - 7thpower 1y ago
    So your reference point is a niche device from 2013 running a stillborn mobile OS with a 1ghz processor, and because that didn’t gain traction, you’ve concluded the segment is not viable. Okay.
    - jodrellblank 1y ago
      My reference point is existing for many years and seeing many people pushing for dockable computers and seeing them repeatedly not take off. Notably the people pushing for dockable computers are computer geeks who say things like "I only listen to OGG Vorbis, MP3 is unusable" and "no wireless, less space than a Nomad, lame" and "I could build Dropbox in a weekend with rsync" and "I don't understand why people need to see pictures or video, text is all I need". Normal people aren't itching to SSH from their TV using a bluetooth keyboard connected to a smartphone with a VPN so they can do X-Forwarding of Brave browser. Normal people are fine with buying a laptop with Gmail and using an Android TV stick to watch from a streaming service.
oliwarner 1y ago
I think this is a pretty poor reading of the market. Everyone has a phone. An increasing segment now has little access to desktop or laptop computing. I know I hate that I have to pick up my laptop to do relatively small tasks that I'm halfway through on my phone. Offering a dockable screen/keyboard/mouse, using the phone battery/compute/storage seems like it would be trivial for Apple. Obviously cannibalises laptop or tablet sales, but that's not the market's disinterest.
- jeron 1y ago
  >An increasing segment now has little access to desktop or laptop computing. source? or are we just going off vibes here?
  - hajile 1y ago
    https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/fact-sheet/mobile/ https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/fact-sheet/mobile/ 15% and increasing quickly. That’s nearly 1 in 5.

amelius 1y ago

People are OK with a dictator as long as they think they are acting in their interest. See Apple, but also US politics.

schaefer 1y ago
and Linus?
GeekyBear 1y ago
Speak for yourself. I stopped using Windows when Microsoft made it obvious that they fully intend to force users to use an online account to log into their own local machine. Requiring an online account if you want to use optional online features was perfectly acceptable. Needing an online account to access your own PC? Absolutely not.
- amelius 1y ago
  Nobody said that Windows has no problems.

EasyMark 1y ago

I'd be happy with a mac tablet running the A19 with a cut to the bone macos, that would be quite something.

deleted 1y ago

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dzhiurgis 1y ago

MacBook logic board is probably less than 20% of its total cost. So by the time you put screen, speakers, keyboard, trackpad, battery, ports, case, hinge, charging into your dock you might as well computer there.

philistine 1y ago
Yeah, I totally agree with you but usually people who complain about not being able to plug their phone want a desktop, not a laptop. Even then, sitting down at a desk gives you a thermal envelope that is only limited by the noise of its cooling, so you can put extremely powerful chips on desktops again defeating the purpose.
StopDisinfo910 1y ago
I don’t want a laptop dock. I want to be able to connect my phone to the dock I already have on my desk or carry with me a foldable screen and keyboard when I need portability. That would give me a larger lighter screen that a MacBook and a better typing experience. I already have headphones. I already have a secondary battery. Actually make all of this wireless and that would be perfect. Plus if the screen support touch you have a tablet. The laptop has a device makes less and less sense now that the cpu and gpu inside a phone are good enough for most. It’s propped up only because phone providers artificially limit what the software on the phone can do.
- dzhiurgis 1y ago
  The amount of friction in this is insane. The only way this can work is wireless at which point you are reinventing a laptop.
  - StopDisinfo910 1y ago
    How are you reinventing a laptop? There is zero friction. You already have the phone. All the pieces are technically there to seamlessly connecting to a screen and a keyboard wirelessly and have it become a proper computer which is what it always was. I think Google has seen it and that’s why they have started working on their desktop mode but they are sadly stuck with underpowered cpu. You need to think bigger. The sole reason this is not already a reality is because it would be a loss of money for Apple.

eboynyc32 1y ago

What can’t you do on your phone? You can even code it.