4 ms·

I wonder what fraction of people today have literally no friends (perhaps this could be examined using a questionnaire and points system to determine who counts

I wonder what fraction of people today have literally no friends (perhaps this could be examined using a questionnaire and points system to determine who counts as a real friend vs mere acquaintance). The number of people with "zero" must surely be rising, especially among the young.

sigmoid10 1y ago
I think it's more about the concept of mental isolation than some magic hard number of "friends" (whatever way you define it). You can have 100 close friends that you regularly talk to and hang out with in your free time and still have noone to talk to regarding certain issues. Speeking from a military/PTSD perspective, a single person who you might not even share that much with but who you can talk to about a particularly traumatic thing might be worth more than all close friends and family in the world. Because they will never understand what you really feel like since none of them have experienced it.
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  It's a real test of how real a friendship is. There are lots of people who enjoy spending time together, talking, laughing, remembering the good times, everything's great. But start to open up about some real trauma and you will drive 90% of them away.
  - jancsika 1y ago
    That's easy. Just search instead for 100 duck-sized horses capable of tiny acts of kindness and understanding. Much higher success rate, much lower variance.
  - 77pt77 1y ago
    [dead]
  - rsanek 1y ago
    Varies by friend. Some are open to it, others not so much. In general I've found that talking about trauma with friends isn't very useful even if they are willing to engage.
  - watwut 1y ago
    They dont have tools, dont know what to do. But more importantly, someone who was in the same situation or did not studied it a lot is simply incapable to truly understand. They can nod, listen, validate, but wont be able to puzzle out half said things, badly expressed things. They won't be able to see logical consequences of what you talk about unless you point them out. Meanwhile, someone with the same experience, even if not friend, will be able to understand much more and more easily. It is not so much about some moral or relational failure on their side, it is simply that it is impossible to imagine feelings and situations you never had.
newsclues 1y ago
As someone in this group, I think there are a surprising number of middle aged people without any friends. If you move or lose your friend group (or never had one) it seems harder than ever to find friends.
- 3pt14159 1y ago
  Have you tried going to a church or a country club or a bar? There is also a find friends option on most dating apps. I really wish that you’d find at least one friend. If you’re in Toronto I could meet up with you at a cafe or a pub.
- jermaustin1 1y ago
  I wouldn't call myself middle age (though I'm not THAT far off, and past middle age for men in my family), but I'd agree and say I could count my total friends on a single finger, and I really don't even like him that much... and he knows it, and probably feels the same. Acquaintances, though, I have many. Many of I talk to regularly, but would never consider them a friend, because well, I know almost nothing personal about them. A former boss that I meet up with anytime we are in the same city for dinner and drinks, I've known for nearly 20 years, but I don't know his wife's name, I know he has 4 kids, and I've met them all in passing, but no clue what their names are, etc. Maybe I'm weird, and maybe I'm a bit lonely, and maybe it has taken a couple decades to realize I squandered all of my in-build friends from childhood, but I'm not sure I'd do it differently. I've had a semi-successful life, and most of my high school friends still live in their hometown, have dead-end manual labor jobs, or have died/disappeared from drug use. Therapy tells me I pre-reject friendship so friendship doesn't reject me, and I agree with it, but don't feel like changing the pattern.
  - SoftTalker 1y ago
    > I pre-reject friendship so friendship doesn't reject me LOL that would describe me perfectly as well I think. I have not had "close" friends since I was in my early 20s. Then everyone moved away and we all started our separate lives. The next group of friends came along when I had kids, and parents naturally became friendly because we would see each other at kids activities, sports, etc. Then the kids grew up, and there was nothing bringing that group of people together anymore. I still see and talk to one or two of them but it's pretty infrequent. Now, the idea of maintaining a real, close friendship just sounds like too much work. I'm happy enough just living my life on my terms. Most friendships are just formed of the people we see regularly due to circumstance. They may be pleasant but they are not deep, and they will fall apart as soon as circumstances change.
throaway1988 1y ago
a lot of people have friends but we only “interact” via a screen!
layer8 1y ago
It also depends on what exactly you count as “real friends”. If you set the standard just a little bit high, many people only have their family, or not even that. And you can have friends and still feel alone.
- em-bee 1y ago
  real friends are people who don't abandon you when you do something they don't like. the problem is, until that happens you can't tell the difference.
  - kridsdale1 1y ago
    These days the bar for that thing seems low. Like making a post on Facebook.
  - watwut 1y ago
    I dunno, you cam turn what you said into "real friends is an enabler of whatever I do and a doormat". Someone leaving after x did something they dont like ... may just be former real friend with a backbone and moral values.
    - em-bee 1y ago
      no, the reverse is that a real friend would confront you and help you correct what he thinks is a mistake, or at least discuss it to understand why, instead of canceling the friendship and worse stabbing you in the back. if they can't confront someone for what they think is a mistake, then it's them who have no backbone, and potentially also the enabler, because you can't change someones behavior by walking away from them.
  - rossant 1y ago
    Or when something bad happens to you.
pojzon 1y ago
My only real „friend” is my wife. Over years I lost contact to all the ppl I considered friends. I dont have time to nurture long distance relationships. After studies we all moved away 200-300km from each other. I have a lot of „pals” or „gaming friends”. But those ppl wont show up 4am at night to pick you up from a street fight. I’m missing „meaningful” connections. Its easy to find ppl who dont care.
- dolebirchwood 1y ago
  To be fair, I'm not sure I'd want to be friends with someone who gets into street fights at 4:00 a.m. My cut-off would be midnight.

sigmoid10 1y ago

I think it's more about the concept of mental isolation than some magic hard number of "friends" (whatever way you define it). You can have 100 close friends that you regularly talk to and hang out with in your free time and still have noone to talk to regarding certain issues. Speeking from a military/PTSD perspective, a single person who you might not even share that much with but who you can talk to about a particularly traumatic thing might be worth more than all close friends and family in the world. Because they will never understand what you really feel like since none of them have experienced it.

SoftTalker 1y ago
It's a real test of how real a friendship is. There are lots of people who enjoy spending time together, talking, laughing, remembering the good times, everything's great. But start to open up about some real trauma and you will drive 90% of them away.
- jancsika 1y ago
  That's easy. Just search instead for 100 duck-sized horses capable of tiny acts of kindness and understanding. Much higher success rate, much lower variance.
- 77pt77 1y ago
  [dead]
- rsanek 1y ago
  Varies by friend. Some are open to it, others not so much. In general I've found that talking about trauma with friends isn't very useful even if they are willing to engage.
- watwut 1y ago
  They dont have tools, dont know what to do. But more importantly, someone who was in the same situation or did not studied it a lot is simply incapable to truly understand. They can nod, listen, validate, but wont be able to puzzle out half said things, badly expressed things. They won't be able to see logical consequences of what you talk about unless you point them out. Meanwhile, someone with the same experience, even if not friend, will be able to understand much more and more easily. It is not so much about some moral or relational failure on their side, it is simply that it is impossible to imagine feelings and situations you never had.

newsclues 1y ago

As someone in this group, I think there are a surprising number of middle aged people without any friends. If you move or lose your friend group (or never had one) it seems harder than ever to find friends.

3pt14159 1y ago
Have you tried going to a church or a country club or a bar? There is also a find friends option on most dating apps. I really wish that you’d find at least one friend. If you’re in Toronto I could meet up with you at a cafe or a pub.
jermaustin1 1y ago
I wouldn't call myself middle age (though I'm not THAT far off, and past middle age for men in my family), but I'd agree and say I could count my total friends on a single finger, and I really don't even like him that much... and he knows it, and probably feels the same. Acquaintances, though, I have many. Many of I talk to regularly, but would never consider them a friend, because well, I know almost nothing personal about them. A former boss that I meet up with anytime we are in the same city for dinner and drinks, I've known for nearly 20 years, but I don't know his wife's name, I know he has 4 kids, and I've met them all in passing, but no clue what their names are, etc. Maybe I'm weird, and maybe I'm a bit lonely, and maybe it has taken a couple decades to realize I squandered all of my in-build friends from childhood, but I'm not sure I'd do it differently. I've had a semi-successful life, and most of my high school friends still live in their hometown, have dead-end manual labor jobs, or have died/disappeared from drug use. Therapy tells me I pre-reject friendship so friendship doesn't reject me, and I agree with it, but don't feel like changing the pattern.
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  > I pre-reject friendship so friendship doesn't reject me LOL that would describe me perfectly as well I think. I have not had "close" friends since I was in my early 20s. Then everyone moved away and we all started our separate lives. The next group of friends came along when I had kids, and parents naturally became friendly because we would see each other at kids activities, sports, etc. Then the kids grew up, and there was nothing bringing that group of people together anymore. I still see and talk to one or two of them but it's pretty infrequent. Now, the idea of maintaining a real, close friendship just sounds like too much work. I'm happy enough just living my life on my terms. Most friendships are just formed of the people we see regularly due to circumstance. They may be pleasant but they are not deep, and they will fall apart as soon as circumstances change.

throaway1988 1y ago

a lot of people have friends but we only “interact” via a screen!

layer8 1y ago

It also depends on what exactly you count as “real friends”. If you set the standard just a little bit high, many people only have their family, or not even that. And you can have friends and still feel alone.

em-bee 1y ago
real friends are people who don't abandon you when you do something they don't like. the problem is, until that happens you can't tell the difference.
- kridsdale1 1y ago
  These days the bar for that thing seems low. Like making a post on Facebook.
- watwut 1y ago
  I dunno, you cam turn what you said into "real friends is an enabler of whatever I do and a doormat". Someone leaving after x did something they dont like ... may just be former real friend with a backbone and moral values.
  - em-bee 1y ago
    no, the reverse is that a real friend would confront you and help you correct what he thinks is a mistake, or at least discuss it to understand why, instead of canceling the friendship and worse stabbing you in the back. if they can't confront someone for what they think is a mistake, then it's them who have no backbone, and potentially also the enabler, because you can't change someones behavior by walking away from them.
- rossant 1y ago
  Or when something bad happens to you.

pojzon 1y ago

My only real „friend” is my wife. Over years I lost contact to all the ppl I considered friends. I dont have time to nurture long distance relationships. After studies we all moved away 200-300km from each other. I have a lot of „pals” or „gaming friends”. But those ppl wont show up 4am at night to pick you up from a street fight. I’m missing „meaningful” connections. Its easy to find ppl who dont care.

dolebirchwood 1y ago
To be fair, I'm not sure I'd want to be friends with someone who gets into street fights at 4:00 a.m. My cut-off would be midnight.