7 ms·

I'm pretty sure your creation will be more interesting than any AI-generated "art". Suno can create catchy songs and succeed in matching genre expectations / c

I'm pretty sure your creation will be more interesting than any AI-generated "art". Suno can create catchy songs and succeed in matching genre expectations / cliches. I've been in phases where I had output I generated with it playing in my head constantly (due to repeated listening). The output was catchy. Then tried to generate interesting music, failed spectacularly. And I, among other stuff, enjoy a lot of music that people consider formulaic, abstract or straight-up boring. What's missing in AI "art" is intent and well... creativity. I think it will have a disrupting influence on commercial pop culture, no question. I also wouldn't claim to be able to classify correctly whether something is AI output. But art is something entirely different.

Rochus 1y ago
> Then tried to generate interesting music, failed spectacularly. You can upload music and let suno arrange it in different styles. I'm a musician myself and am also interested in "interesting" music. I made experiments with my own music and was positively surprised by the "musicality" and creativity of the generated arrangements (https://rochus-keller.ch/?p=1350 https://rochus-keller.ch/?p=1350).
Veedrac 1y ago
This argument always seemed weird to me because it's obviously the case that ‘intent and creativity’ is at best a slim minority of consumer preference. If I want a simple dubstep line with random romantic words meaninglessly peppered in it, or the same 4 chord pop song as every other pop song, or you know, anything popular, that's easy. If I want something that's saying something interesting in the topics I find interesting, or doing something new with the medium that's also well executed and listenable to on repeat, finding that is actually just hard, and it's rarely the stuff with the dollars and overlapping interests to get the high production values. I'm not going to claim AI audio isn't also awash with popular themes and tropes, or that it's a bastion of creativity. I'm also not going to claim that the deepest, really creative ideas aren't expressed in human written works. There are enough people to make truly exceptional songs and prompt many truly mindless AI generations. And there's also nothing wrong with most songs optimizing for personal preferences that are not that; I'm not trying to 'argue against' popular music. But I am going to claim, for me, that it just hasn't been practical to saturate my tastes from public media, and that most of the reason I personally listen to AI music is that I want something that says or does something I think is creative, exploratory, or intellectually interesting that I don't know how to get from anywhere else.
- freejazz 1y ago
  The poster you are responding to did not make any reference to "consumer preference"
  - Veedrac 1y ago
    I was using ‘consumer preference’ here as a proxy for ‘the things that people tend to care about.’ The point I'm highlighting is that it's weird that when AI audio comes up, there's a reliable crowd of people discrediting it for missing a thing that clearly doesn't matter that much to most people in most contexts. It's like, sure you can want things from music that are to your specific taste, but it's like coming into a post about, idk, a folk band and complaining that it's not metal. You're allowed to like your thing, but clearly most music is allowed not to be metal, why is this music specifically bad for not being metal? And in this case the point I'm making is stronger, in that AI audio actually unlocks a lot of ability to listen things that are ‘interesting and creative’ but not widely available because of consumer preference, so it's actually more like showing up to a folk metal fusion band and saying the problem with this band is that it isn't metal.
    - Aldipower 1y ago
      You still totally miss the point of this thread. Making music and creating art for the sake of enjoyment. Consumer preferences are irrelevant here. I am totally fine if you like AI music. And I am sure someone can create art by interweaving AI elements. And keep in mind, the training data for Suno is coming/gets stolen from someone like me who creates real music. Personally I do not enjoy to make music with some proprietary 3rd party tools that can garden wall at every time, like Suno. But that is personal preference.
      - regularjack 1y ago
        Completely agree with this. "The audience comes last" is a phrase that perfectly encapsulates this sentiment (can't recall who said it). Somehow it's assumed that artists make music for the audience, but many make it for themselves, because they enjoy the process. Contrary to other comments in this thread, typing prompts on a keyboard is not the same as picking up a guitar and playing it.

Rochus 1y ago

> Then tried to generate interesting music, failed spectacularly. You can upload music and let suno arrange it in different styles. I'm a musician myself and am also interested in "interesting" music. I made experiments with my own music and was positively surprised by the "musicality" and creativity of the generated arrangements (https://rochus-keller.ch/?p=1350 https://rochus-keller.ch/?p=1350).

Veedrac 1y ago

This argument always seemed weird to me because it's obviously the case that ‘intent and creativity’ is at best a slim minority of consumer preference. If I want a simple dubstep line with random romantic words meaninglessly peppered in it, or the same 4 chord pop song as every other pop song, or you know, anything popular, that's easy. If I want something that's saying something interesting in the topics I find interesting, or doing something new with the medium that's also well executed and listenable to on repeat, finding that is actually just hard, and it's rarely the stuff with the dollars and overlapping interests to get the high production values. I'm not going to claim AI audio isn't also awash with popular themes and tropes, or that it's a bastion of creativity. I'm also not going to claim that the deepest, really creative ideas aren't expressed in human written works. There are enough people to make truly exceptional songs and prompt many truly mindless AI generations. And there's also nothing wrong with most songs optimizing for personal preferences that are not that; I'm not trying to 'argue against' popular music. But I am going to claim, for me, that it just hasn't been practical to saturate my tastes from public media, and that most of the reason I personally listen to AI music is that I want something that says or does something I think is creative, exploratory, or intellectually interesting that I don't know how to get from anywhere else.

freejazz 1y ago
The poster you are responding to did not make any reference to "consumer preference"
- Veedrac 1y ago
  I was using ‘consumer preference’ here as a proxy for ‘the things that people tend to care about.’ The point I'm highlighting is that it's weird that when AI audio comes up, there's a reliable crowd of people discrediting it for missing a thing that clearly doesn't matter that much to most people in most contexts. It's like, sure you can want things from music that are to your specific taste, but it's like coming into a post about, idk, a folk band and complaining that it's not metal. You're allowed to like your thing, but clearly most music is allowed not to be metal, why is this music specifically bad for not being metal? And in this case the point I'm making is stronger, in that AI audio actually unlocks a lot of ability to listen things that are ‘interesting and creative’ but not widely available because of consumer preference, so it's actually more like showing up to a folk metal fusion band and saying the problem with this band is that it isn't metal.
  - Aldipower 1y ago
    You still totally miss the point of this thread. Making music and creating art for the sake of enjoyment. Consumer preferences are irrelevant here. I am totally fine if you like AI music. And I am sure someone can create art by interweaving AI elements. And keep in mind, the training data for Suno is coming/gets stolen from someone like me who creates real music. Personally I do not enjoy to make music with some proprietary 3rd party tools that can garden wall at every time, like Suno. But that is personal preference.
    - regularjack 1y ago
      Completely agree with this. "The audience comes last" is a phrase that perfectly encapsulates this sentiment (can't recall who said it). Somehow it's assumed that artists make music for the audience, but many make it for themselves, because they enjoy the process. Contrary to other comments in this thread, typing prompts on a keyboard is not the same as picking up a guitar and playing it.