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So the Netherlands may not be the best example to use as a positive example here. Notoriously, the national identity system was used during World War II as a s

So the Netherlands may not be the best example to use as a positive example here. Notoriously, the national identity system was used during World War II as a system for discovering and eliminating the Jewish community[1]. The lessons learned from that are a frequent topic of discussion in civil liberties groups, and the Dutch experience is often cited, both global conversations and within the Netherlands -- e.g. On Liberation Day 2015, Bits of Freedom held its annual Godwin Lecture on the risks of prioritising ID efficiency over civil liberties[2]. It may be that special protections were coded into the current system to prevent this from happening again, I don't know the details. Certainly, the reputation for how obligatory papers have been (mis)used in mainland Europe since Napoleonic times have fed into the anglo world's suspicion around introducing similar regulations[3]. There are several recurring memes around how compulsory documents are a sign of an authoritarian environment. [1] - https://jck.nl/en/agenda/identity-cards-and-forgeries https://jck.nl/en/agenda/identity-cards-and-forgeries [2] - https://www.bitsoffreedom.nl/2015/04/30/during-world-war-ii-we-did-have-something-to-hide/ https://www.bitsoffreedom.nl/2015/04/30/during-world-war-ii-... [3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Valjean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Valjean

Aeolun 1y ago
I don’t think the current ID structure has any field for religious or racial history. It’s simply a unique number assigned to a person at birth.
- JetSetIlly 1y ago
  The census form in the UK requires disclosure of religion and ethnicity. It would be relatively easy to merge census data with ID. I might trust this government not to do that, but I don't trust a future government (because I don't know who that will be).
  - heavenlyblue 1y ago
    how would the existence of this card make it easier to pursue you if you're let's say, Jewish? Doesn't passport/driving license already have thisv
    - JetSetIlly 1y ago
      Maybe it doesn't make it any easier but your question does remind us that cataloguing and categorising people can be dangerous. I accept that there are good reasons that the state could use this information, but we should also be alert to possible abuses. Without looking, I honestly don't know if the passport and driving licence lists this information. But the census certainly does.
      - heavenlyblue 1y ago
        I mean the issue is that British people are so uptight about the government id card when a) oyster/credit card allows somebody to track all of their movement b) there's plenty of information collection that combined can be used against you c) driving license is de facto gov id at the moment. The ship had sailed, you are fighting against the wrong thing and that's why this battle will be lost.
conorflan 1y ago
My response as to the difference is the 1998 Good Friday agreement. Something that has already been branded as the Brit Card is simply something that wouldn't work in Northern Ireland, and that the name passed any scrutiny say an awful lot. Ireland is not Britain, and people from Northern Ireland can chose to identify as British, Irish or Both by birthright. A "Brit Card" is not something a significant portion of people would want. I personally am more disgusted by the nationalistic naming, but I also don't like the idea of needing a smartphone or my walle when walking. If these aren't true details then the messaging has been poor, per form, and needs to be addressed, quickly.
- KoolKat23 1y ago
  You will not need to carry it around with you. It also seems it'll actually be called Digital ID by the government, this is more a marketing tool, BritCard. (Just clarifying if it helps, I see some misinformation out there).
  - t14000 1y ago
    Because they pinky promise? It'll be required to produce one like producing a driving license is required, but you don't need to have it with you. It'll be required because pubs/bars etc will require it. It'll not be required like giving a traffic stop breath sample is not required or like giving up your password is not required. Imagine it was called IrishID or similar, help you to have empathy for how half of NI residents might feel about Brit-anything?
    - KoolKat23 1y ago
      I guess it depends on its design (does it set up the dystopian infrastructure or not) and then more so on the legislation around it. It's already not uncommon to need your passport for work, making it a law to produce for any work would be the actual thing that changes this. I get your point about IrishID, but be realistic, none of this is surprising considering the current state of things. I could make some controversial statements in this regard but I'll avoid the flames (I sympathise with you before you place me in the wrong box).
3uler 1y ago
When I moved to the Netherlands I was shocked to find out you have to maintain a registered address with the government. The government also decides how many non-family members can register at an address, so in Amsterdam it is common for people to remain registered at there parents while subletting a room in an apartment. You also get a DigiD which very convenient but also terrifying, especially when I walk around my neighborhood and see plaque’s in the ground for the victims of the holocaust who lived here. My Dutch girlfriend does not believe me when I tell here that you don’t have to register where you live with the government in the anglophone world. It’s just so engrained in the society that anything else seems absurd.
- Alphaeus 1y ago
  Here in New Zealand, you're required to be enrolled to vote, even if you never intend to actually vote. Enrolling requires an address. I imagine it's similar in Australia, where actually voting is required by law. I believe in New Zealand other government agencies aren't allowed to access your data without your consent though.
  - 3uler 1y ago
    The Electoral Roll is quite different though https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_roll https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_roll

Aeolun 1y ago

I don’t think the current ID structure has any field for religious or racial history. It’s simply a unique number assigned to a person at birth.

JetSetIlly 1y ago
The census form in the UK requires disclosure of religion and ethnicity. It would be relatively easy to merge census data with ID. I might trust this government not to do that, but I don't trust a future government (because I don't know who that will be).
- heavenlyblue 1y ago
  how would the existence of this card make it easier to pursue you if you're let's say, Jewish? Doesn't passport/driving license already have thisv
  - JetSetIlly 1y ago
    Maybe it doesn't make it any easier but your question does remind us that cataloguing and categorising people can be dangerous. I accept that there are good reasons that the state could use this information, but we should also be alert to possible abuses. Without looking, I honestly don't know if the passport and driving licence lists this information. But the census certainly does.
    - heavenlyblue 1y ago
      I mean the issue is that British people are so uptight about the government id card when a) oyster/credit card allows somebody to track all of their movement b) there's plenty of information collection that combined can be used against you c) driving license is de facto gov id at the moment. The ship had sailed, you are fighting against the wrong thing and that's why this battle will be lost.

conorflan 1y ago

My response as to the difference is the 1998 Good Friday agreement. Something that has already been branded as the Brit Card is simply something that wouldn't work in Northern Ireland, and that the name passed any scrutiny say an awful lot. Ireland is not Britain, and people from Northern Ireland can chose to identify as British, Irish or Both by birthright. A "Brit Card" is not something a significant portion of people would want. I personally am more disgusted by the nationalistic naming, but I also don't like the idea of needing a smartphone or my walle when walking. If these aren't true details then the messaging has been poor, per form, and needs to be addressed, quickly.

KoolKat23 1y ago
You will not need to carry it around with you. It also seems it'll actually be called Digital ID by the government, this is more a marketing tool, BritCard. (Just clarifying if it helps, I see some misinformation out there).
- t14000 1y ago
  Because they pinky promise? It'll be required to produce one like producing a driving license is required, but you don't need to have it with you. It'll be required because pubs/bars etc will require it. It'll not be required like giving a traffic stop breath sample is not required or like giving up your password is not required. Imagine it was called IrishID or similar, help you to have empathy for how half of NI residents might feel about Brit-anything?
  - KoolKat23 1y ago
    I guess it depends on its design (does it set up the dystopian infrastructure or not) and then more so on the legislation around it. It's already not uncommon to need your passport for work, making it a law to produce for any work would be the actual thing that changes this. I get your point about IrishID, but be realistic, none of this is surprising considering the current state of things. I could make some controversial statements in this regard but I'll avoid the flames (I sympathise with you before you place me in the wrong box).

3uler 1y ago

When I moved to the Netherlands I was shocked to find out you have to maintain a registered address with the government. The government also decides how many non-family members can register at an address, so in Amsterdam it is common for people to remain registered at there parents while subletting a room in an apartment. You also get a DigiD which very convenient but also terrifying, especially when I walk around my neighborhood and see plaque’s in the ground for the victims of the holocaust who lived here. My Dutch girlfriend does not believe me when I tell here that you don’t have to register where you live with the government in the anglophone world. It’s just so engrained in the society that anything else seems absurd.

Alphaeus 1y ago
Here in New Zealand, you're required to be enrolled to vote, even if you never intend to actually vote. Enrolling requires an address. I imagine it's similar in Australia, where actually voting is required by law. I believe in New Zealand other government agencies aren't allowed to access your data without your consent though.
- 3uler 1y ago
  The Electoral Roll is quite different though https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_roll https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_roll