5 ms·

I have friends who are gay, trans, non-Christian, or brown. Not all right-wingers say that they aren’t fully people but many do, and the more libertarian ones a

by acdha 1y ago

I have friends who are gay, trans, non-Christian, or brown. Not all right-wingers say that they aren’t fully people but many do, and the more libertarian ones aren’t exactly rushing to shut that down. It is very hard to trust a group of people unwilling to recognize my neighbors as fully human. In the federal space, we’ve seen purges of women and minorities, shutdowns of groups which work on things like civil rights or pollution in poor communities, widespread refusal to pay money as promised, and attempts to punish organizations for 1st amendment activities. There is zero expectation of good-faith from anyone who supports that.

samdoesnothing 1y ago
Uh, good for you? I do as well. You say that not all right wingers are bigoted, and then go on to proclaim the entire group doesn't recognize minorities as being human. Have you spoken honestly and in good faith with right wingers?
- etchalon 1y ago
  I have had many such conversations (Texas is a fun state) and while many don't consider themselves bigoted, their policy preferences amount to, essentially, "but I'd rather we not treat people equally." They don't "hate gay people". (They have gay friends!) But they don't think gay people should be able to marry or adopt children. Sometimes Leviticus comes up. They don't "hate Black people" (They have black co-workers!). They just think the disparities in the justice, education and financial systems are all Black people's own fault. They don't "hate immigrants" (They love Mexico!), they just think they're not assimilating, taking American jobs and draining tax payer resources. Trans people seem to be the only group they'll outright admit to hating. Oh, and Democrats. They really hate Democrats. As I said, Texas is fun.
- acdha 1y ago
  Let me clarify my point: I’m not saying every Republican is the same on every one of those issues, I’m saying that the people who disagree are not standing up to the people rejecting the idea that certain groups deserve full rights. I have a number of family and a few remaining right-wing acquaintances (all of the libertarians I knew are voting straight-ticket for Democrats against MAGA) – not “kinda liked Reagan” but people who’ve had worked published in national media or been invited to dinner at Rupert Murdoch’s estate. Privately, people express concern or distaste for anti-liberty actions - but not in public, never to the point of standing up for a group being targeted. Like the Mexican woman who cleans their house, she’s great even if her husband was originally undocumented, so of course ICE shouldn’t go after them – but they won’t speak up on behalf of anyone they don’t know personally, even just to call for due process. I left the Republican sphere during the Bush years when it became obvious that for all of the talk about ethics and the rule of law during the Clinton administration, there wasn’t a desire to hold their fellows to that same standard. Sadly, it’s only gotten worse since then – as we can see from the blatant lawlessness this year where even people who might share goals like reducing government spending or reconsidering industrial policy should feel safe saying there’s a better, legal way to do it.
Incipient 1y ago
Conversely I distrust people with a view of educating kids on an array of issues in gender and sexuality. Unfortunately your/US views have become simplistic (yes simplistic) along two hyper extremes. Both sides are wrong at this stage. Just wrong in different ways.
- acdha 1y ago
  Are you saying that respecting other people and letting them live their own lives without affecting you is worthy of distrust? Because I have directly seen what’s taught in schools here and it’s basically the golden rule without the quiet exceptions.
  - SpicyLemonZest 1y ago
    The golden rule is to treat people how I would like to be treated, and I welcome opinions from my friends and family on my life choices. I might not agree, and if I disagree strongly enough I might resolve to find a community where people are more aligned with me - but I'd expect that community to also have opinions on what's a good or a bad way to live your life.

by acdha 1y ago

samdoesnothing 1y ago

Uh, good for you? I do as well. You say that not all right wingers are bigoted, and then go on to proclaim the entire group doesn't recognize minorities as being human. Have you spoken honestly and in good faith with right wingers?

etchalon 1y ago
I have had many such conversations (Texas is a fun state) and while many don't consider themselves bigoted, their policy preferences amount to, essentially, "but I'd rather we not treat people equally." They don't "hate gay people". (They have gay friends!) But they don't think gay people should be able to marry or adopt children. Sometimes Leviticus comes up. They don't "hate Black people" (They have black co-workers!). They just think the disparities in the justice, education and financial systems are all Black people's own fault. They don't "hate immigrants" (They love Mexico!), they just think they're not assimilating, taking American jobs and draining tax payer resources. Trans people seem to be the only group they'll outright admit to hating. Oh, and Democrats. They really hate Democrats. As I said, Texas is fun.
acdha 1y ago
Let me clarify my point: I’m not saying every Republican is the same on every one of those issues, I’m saying that the people who disagree are not standing up to the people rejecting the idea that certain groups deserve full rights. I have a number of family and a few remaining right-wing acquaintances (all of the libertarians I knew are voting straight-ticket for Democrats against MAGA) – not “kinda liked Reagan” but people who’ve had worked published in national media or been invited to dinner at Rupert Murdoch’s estate. Privately, people express concern or distaste for anti-liberty actions - but not in public, never to the point of standing up for a group being targeted. Like the Mexican woman who cleans their house, she’s great even if her husband was originally undocumented, so of course ICE shouldn’t go after them – but they won’t speak up on behalf of anyone they don’t know personally, even just to call for due process. I left the Republican sphere during the Bush years when it became obvious that for all of the talk about ethics and the rule of law during the Clinton administration, there wasn’t a desire to hold their fellows to that same standard. Sadly, it’s only gotten worse since then – as we can see from the blatant lawlessness this year where even people who might share goals like reducing government spending or reconsidering industrial policy should feel safe saying there’s a better, legal way to do it.

Incipient 1y ago

Conversely I distrust people with a view of educating kids on an array of issues in gender and sexuality. Unfortunately your/US views have become simplistic (yes simplistic) along two hyper extremes. Both sides are wrong at this stage. Just wrong in different ways.

acdha 1y ago
Are you saying that respecting other people and letting them live their own lives without affecting you is worthy of distrust? Because I have directly seen what’s taught in schools here and it’s basically the golden rule without the quiet exceptions.
- SpicyLemonZest 1y ago
  The golden rule is to treat people how I would like to be treated, and I welcome opinions from my friends and family on my life choices. I might not agree, and if I disagree strongly enough I might resolve to find a community where people are more aligned with me - but I'd expect that community to also have opinions on what's a good or a bad way to live your life.